Frustrating Skill Checks

Still yes, if it blows up it's a free 10% regression immediately before they have even kicked it. Does this matter on a gen with 15% progress? not so much. Does it matter on a gen with 85% progress? absolutely. Once again we're back to situations where the survivor wanted to make the right play and got punished by a game mechanic that wasn't in the control of the survivor or the killer. Hence why it is unhealthy game design.

Edit: "the survivor" instead of "you"

It's unhealthy because it's random chance though. That's the entire problem with it. You shouldn't have a random chance ever to have a situation suddenly out of your control. Especially a "skill check" not a "are you still on the interaction right now?" check. There's a difference between a survivor losing a 50/50 at a loop, and a survivor sticking to a generator until their teammate dies because their generator is 90% and they don't want it to explode when they leave to rescue. The devs have shown this can be fixed with us having overcharge skillchecks already in the game, and merciless storm allowing you to let go without it blowing up the generator. Why do killers have perks that wont guaranteeably blow up the generator, because survivors let go, but survivors have a random chance of blowing it up by letting go at any point in the game?

Edit: Especially a "skill check" not a "are you still on the interaction right now?" check.

I have given several reasons that are valid and anything but "I don't like it". The one here giving lackluster arguments at best here is you.

"Messing up repairing a generator to which these characters would have no experience doing is completely normal. Especially if a monster is breathing down your neck." is not an acceptable defense for skilled survivors in a *player versus player* atmosphere to be punished for something they cannot do anything about in numerous situations. You cannot say that survivors messing up a generator randomly out of their control is fair and realistic but being given the chance to pass a *difficult to repair skill check* is not and would be seen as unfair if it worked that way. This doesn't even make sense by your own analogy. The survivors know they are getting an insta skillcheck, but they tap the gen anyways, why are they NOT punished for this?

I'm not saying Overcharge should punish people for tapping gens, but I am saying that your argument falls flat in trying to defend the random skillchecks you cannot react to with "realism" and the overcharge skillchecks with "fairness". Guess what? A lot of us are seeing these random regressions as unfair.

This is positive in a horror perspective yes, but negative in a player versus player experience. This game is not balanced around horror, it's balanced around PVP. These situations impact the PVP experience 100% negatively and should be addressed. Perhaps you should take another perspective before telling someone else to.

Thank you for your opinion. I'm glad you have found a way to enjoy this, but sadly not all of us can have fun and laugh when this mechanic hits at the worst times. This is the only thing I have ever asked the devs to change in this game seriously, I find many things annoying but when you say "you guys are really trying to create perfect maps, perfect RNG for windows and pallets, perfect skill check fail safes. It’s not a E-Sport, it’s a Party game lol." I want you to know you are not talking about me. I don't expect any of these, nor do I ask for them. Rarely do I ever even so much as mention them.

"We gotta deal with bad RNG out of our control all the time in this game." Yes, as I have said many times sometimes you just get screwed by things and not everything is in your control - but it was in control of one side or the other and how they played it. This mechanic can be completely out of the control of either side. I have said many times I am okay with losing, it is part of the game, but not when there's nothing you did wrong. Letting go of an interaction isn't, and should never be viewed by a game mechanic as, a mistake worthy of punishment. See again, overcharge and merciless storm, which are actual killer perks that provide benefits or no negative influence to letting go during a skillcheck. So why does random chance provide a negative?

Why pray for our failure in getting a change that is actually beneficial to the gameplay experience? If this change goes through nobody will be upset that it's gone, but those who suffer from the negatives will definitely be happy. Like I have said many times, this is "skill checks" we are talking about, your "skill" should not be rated by whether you were still interacting or not, fundamentally this mechanic does not even make sense, and we are not asking for some out of this world fix. We still want to have to do the skill check, we just want to actually have the chance to pass it in situations where we had to let go. Letting go and losing 10% progress instantly is not fun for everyone, even if it is for you.

Yeah I actually posted the Otzdarva video on this earlier in this thread! Someone else said this is a "wanted" feature and that's why the devs aren't changing it, but I can assure you it is absolutely an "unwanted" feature by many and should be reconsidered.

Thank you for another example of this annoying mechanic - in the days following this post I have seen a minimum of 10 situations in my own games where this one mechanic has singlehandedly changed the outcome, or at least had a major impact on the game.. I'm tired of it.

"So the tension and paranoia you described at having to worry about whether you'll get this skill check failure isn't exciting?" I have already clarified what I meant by tension and paranoia. No, it is not exciting, it is irritating and out of the control of the players in many cases.

"One could make the argument in this setting that risk = excitement." One could make that argument, one could also disagree with that argument and say that it is frustrating for a pvp atmosphere. You did not provide examples from other games that you claim have RNG involved that can swing a win or loss, I'd ask you to back up this claim. As it is extremely doubtful that other balanced pvp games have RNG of this level that there isn't something you can actually do about it. Finding a bad gun in a chest in Escape From Tarkov is bad RNG sure but a skilled player can still use the gun for some headshots. No good DBD survivor player can use this skillcheck to gain an advantage of some sort, it's a net negative.

"My point is that guaranteed success is less exciting than the RNG provided by the thrill of potential failure." There's no guaranteed success. You still have to pass the skill check. Stop ignoring this point. We don't want an AUTOMATIC failure in letting go, we want to have the chance of success, you have this completely backwards and are telling me that I have the wrong perspective on it.

"If you re-read our exchanges we haven't really gone in circles I've addressed each point directly as you've brought it up. I accept where you are coming from but I don't think you've really thought it through." We are going in circles, you have brought up this "excitement" or "it's a horror game so it needs this" on a few different occasions now and I am tired of arguing how this feature does not make the game scarier or more fun, or even exciting, it just makes common interactions have a random punishment when you decide to cancel and it has a bigger impact than actual killer PERKS in this game in their entirety, but not once have you addressed this point.

You are not "auto succeeding" by letting go, you are just choosing to cancel, this has no benefit to the interaction at all, it is a net neutral. The fix we are asking for that I have made blatantly clear is that skillchecks function like overcharge so you still *have to pass it* for the generator to not explode. You argue as if we just want to let go to avoid skillchecks, this is not true. Nobody is asking for an auto pass, we are asking for the auto fail to be removed. Not wanting a potential failure is not the same as wanting an automatic win.

"Extreme hyperbolic scenario"? Sorry I thought it was "spice of life that keeps things interesting" and "RNG keeps things exciting" , but I guess it can't work both ways can it? Suddenly another situation that is a similar scenario on the other side is a ridiculous comparison.

"One good example would be if you had a chance to trip when performing fast vaults that prevented you from getting the speed boost." So we can't give examples to fit our point, but you can? What makes this not an "extreme hyperbolic scenario"? You realize in my example the reason it is similar is because the killer could choose to cancel their objective and be punished for cancelling by random chance. It's a direct comparison to the core issue, your example is "people should always have a chance to miss out regardless of what they do" how is this a good argument? It completely misses the mark. It impacts the pvp experience. When you lose to RNG it feels #########, when you win because of someone else's bad RNG it feels dirty, or unrewarding/unshowing of your actual skill as a player, at least it does for me. I don't like being handed wins, personally.

"For your killer swing example, aim dressing does this to some extent" And guess what? People want to opt out of aim dressing too, it's another thing in this game that bothers me amongst many other players substantially. Losing due to factors that are out of your control.

"That way people wouldn't interpret it as an auto failing skill check and feel helpless when it happens, rather its just a thematic risk to stopping an action early. Which mixes up gameplay and is mechanically and thematically appropriate." Well unfortunately it IS an auto failing skillcheck, and no change in perspective can sway from the raw facts. You've mentioned arguing from emotions before, but I see a lot more "meh I don't care I like RNG" coming from you while I put down plenty of examples, references, as well as questions still left unanswered, see: "You did not provide examples from other games that you claim have RNG involved that can swing a win or loss, I'd ask you to back up this claim" or "Why does Overcharge and Merciless Storm which are actual killer perks not punish you for letting go, but random chance does?" (Paraphrased)

You also still have yet to mention how any of your points are beneficial to a pvp gameplay experience. You keep bringing up horror as if that's anything and everything this game is about. Something being "interesting" for your gameplay doesn't mean it is balanced for a pvp experience, if keeping things interesting was always the intention the Finishing Mori and Basekit Unbreakable would have already been passed through, but maybe things being interesting isn't all that it's about is it? This game has plenty of fun to be had without needing these random skillchecks to add supposed "flavor".

"And functionally, because this kind of game design is liked by probably less than 1% of the playerbase. Random chance to lose has always been a terrible element in any game that implements it, which is why no one does implement it. The only other instance I can think of was the tripping mechanic in Smash Bros Brawl, which people -loathed-, and it was removed in following instalments in the series."

This is a great point, because even if something does make sense thematically, that does not mean that it is functionally healthy for the game. DBD is not an "E-sport" as was pointed out, but that doesn't mean the game is not competitive and does not have competitive play. Literally the ENTIRE game is Player Versus Player in Ranked matches, we don't even have the choice to play non-ranked. Tripping in Smash Bros makes sense due to arenas, sweat, character exhaustion etc but at the end of the day the random chance for failure, no matter how realistic it is, at it's core an awful mechanic that is negatively impacting an experience that neither side can control and would impact matches, hence it's removal from the series.

When we play a game that involves PvP we do not want to be playing with fire, I want to know that when I push the jump button, that my character will jump, I don't want to worry that there is a small chance that instead of jumping my character will instead stumble and be free hits for the enemy, I just want to jump. Just like when I want to cancel an interaction, I want to cancel the interaction, not suffer from a hidden penalty because of WHEN I chose to let go. There's even certain perks in this game that encourage letting go to either avoid negatives or gain benefits.

"If a single one of these RNG events are enough to win or lose you the game then its was either snow balling for or against you to begin with." Situation last night - 2 gens left, teammate on death hook and injured, comes up to me for healing, i let go, generator explodes, killer is now alerted to our position and immediately comes (he wasn't that far away), happily taking their free kill, ignoring me attempting to bodyblock, and the game becoming a 3v1 which snowballed into a loss because of a 7%. We were in a winnable position until this happened. These kind of situations are a lot more common than you may think, they are definitely impactful.

"You and a lot of the posters giving examples that you have praised have placed far to much emphasis on the impact of these events." Because the event and it's impact is important to proving the point. These aren't feelings, these aren't hypotheticals, these are facts, but when I provide facts and examples it's "too much emphasis".

"There isn't a trip mechanic but if the chances were small enough it probably wouldn't be that game breaking to stall a chase from time to time. Just as its not that game breaking to whiff a hit due to aim dressing from time to time these are not extreme examples whereas yours is basically a mechanic that just undoes all benefits gained and why is here's why RNG is bad because of crazy beyond ridiculous example. Couldn't you tell the lack of logic here in you own point." Just because something doesn't completely break the game does not mean it isn't worth addressing and changing. Sometimes people don't get their Adept achievements due to a bug, this bug does not functionally change the game at all, but was addressed, because it was an issue. Issues get changed because people talk about them and make them known. The steam achievements didn't matter to me because I completed every achievement in the game when they were working on a fix, but I am happy they did fix it nonetheless. You know why? Because I support changes to the game that will make people happy and enjoy it more, even if it has no impact on my own game or that I don't care about. Is this perspective wrong?

"Almost all game have an RNG element even PVP ones that add some form on increase or decrease to outcome success. About the only fixed variable game out there is chess and game like it. A lot of these are as simple as variable spawn point, map or item iteration" Yes, but these examples you pointed out can be positive or negative and it's a gamble that even DBD has regardless of which side you choose, it's also ACCEPTABLE RNG. In most cases the RNG you provide as an example does not purely negatively impact the players as it gets balanced out by the positives: "I got The Game on GhostFace and hate my life" is then "I got Midwich on Sadako and life is good". There is never a situation where these random automatic fail skillchecks are positive, they only happen in situations where it will hinder your gameplay as a survivor. You only let go of interactions to do something else that is more important at the moment.

"You can get this challenging experience even if you aren't currently interacting with the killer making even the solo game interesting" It's not challenging though, it's an automatic fail that harms the gameplay experience, there's nothing "challenging" about letting go of an interaction.

"Still all this is for naught because at the very heart of this discussion is your rational for the removal of said mechanic which is... it annoys you... frankly that isn't enough of a reason to rework how the game works." The annoyance is a factor that comes from the core problem of being punished by a random chance that is not in the influence of either side by attempting to make the most optimal play for your team, but sure, keep saying it's ALL emotional and that this invalidates any argument I could make. Whatever makes you feel like you have the high ground. I'm not asking them to rework the game at all, I'm asking for a single mechanic to not auto fail, this is not too much to ask for, and still you argue as if your opinion is the only one that matters, that we are all just silly little guys who don't want to be scared in scary game.

"Now we've truly come full circle, your options are to be annoyed or not, reconsider what I've already said or remain annoyed it makes no difference to me, I'm not annoyed by it for the reasons outlined." This is a very narrow minded choice, there are more than two options. We can also come here and ask the developers directly to reconsider the mechanic. I'm not annoyed by this mechanic most of the time that it comes up, because you are right that it isn't impactful all of the time, but that doesn't mean there aren't situations where this mechanic does have an influence, and this influence does need to be addressed. Will it negatively impact your gameplay experience if they removed the auto skillcheck fail? Or will it genuinely not matter? If you aren't annoyed by it, I would hope you choose the latter and leave us alone, so it can be changed for the people that it actually does matter to.

Okay fine, I'll be consistent. Leave if it doesn't bother you.

I've already identified this guy as a troll based on his weak responses, constant repetition even when the arguments were debunked or further information requested, refusal to directly acknowledge points and fall back on "well you guys said it's annoying and this is a horror game so that's the only points I'll talk about" and making things personal, yet pointing the finger at us for that aspect. I'm done engaging with him, in anything other than asking him to leave if this doesn't matter to him, lest this fall into an even further pointless circle.

Thank you for all of your reasonable (not just because we agree!) feedback on this thread and the attempts to shed light and reason on the topic. Regardless of what he said we are allowed to agree with each other without it being "mistaking your opinion for fact.", at the end of the day we can support each other in what we wish to happen in this game, regardless of the opinions of someone who seeks nothing more than a rise out of people.

"I don't find this a problem so neither should you", is an argument that could be made about literally anything, but is historically proven unhealthy, as this is a manipulative mentality and stance to have. Sure some people on this forum are ridiculous with their requests and are absolutely crybabies, but our request is genuinely reasonable and the solution already exists in the game. If we don't talk about what we find a problem, we all become sheep or a hivemind, and that is not a real humane community. We are allowed to disagree and that should never be challenged with a "I don't care though" if he didn't care, he would have been gone long ago. Him not caring does not mean we should not care too, his first comment on this thread ended with a "change your perspective" and his current last comment ended with a "I hope they don't change it because I think it's fine", as if he needed any more ways to say "My opinion is the only one that matters" That attitude needs to look itself in the mirror before telling others that they are mistaking opinion for fact.

Today BHVR announced the coming changes to the bloodweb people have asked for for ages, I guarantee this is something a small percentage of people "didn't see as an issue", but the majority definitely wanted the change, and this wasn't even something that actually impacts you inside the game at all. If nobody mentioned it, or those who did mention it were met with "well I don't care so neither should you" at every turn, this great change would not be coming soon. BHVR has been making great changes to this game over the last year that I've been playing.

He's arguing just for the sake of arguing, regardless of whether we agree with some of his points or not, and claims that to be a consistency issue. I don't think it's inconsistent at all to say, "Hey this is irritating to me when it absolutely changed the outcome of my game, but if there's times where the gen explodes and nothing comes out of it I really don't care that much about it in those moments", it's just admitting there is some of his claims I can agree with, even if we don't agree fully.

But I digress, it was made quite clear in his last reply to me what he seeks from us, and I'm done feeding the troll.