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Why do Survivors get accessibility and QoL changes but Killers can’t even get an FoV slider?
There was the HUD changes which are good. Now there is visual heartbeat, which is great accessibility wise and honestly I think it will be useful for most people in general.
That said, there have been numerous reports of people getting motion sickness and having to waste an entire perk slot on Shadowborn. Also it is just nice to not be looking out of a Pringles can.
For some reason there is radio silence on this issue. BHVR’s stubborness on this is really remarkable.
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The visual heartbeat is a wonderful addition to the accessibility options. It was originally a perk, but accessibility options should not be perks. I agree that FoV should also be the next accessibility option that is implemented.
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I would argue that giving killers a bigger field of view is also a very small buff to them. It can help find survivors more easily, for example.
Meanwhile the visual heartbeat will not buff survivors in any way, at least if implemented properly. That's why I would argue the devs are a bit hesitant with adding a field of view slider.
But I do hope that they add this to killer at some point, it would be very nice. As compensation, they could increase survivors crouch speed slightly.
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Accessibility changes don't require that both sides get equal treatment. We got colorblind mode last year which helps colorblind people not lose trackmarks.
This time we're getting an addition that already existed in the dbd mobile game that helps survivors with hard of hearing know they are in the TR without needing a perk.
Leave feedback on the FoV slider. There's no point in complaining about why survivors got x and killers didn't get y, because there's no reason for the devs to do equal changes to both sides at the same time.
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A FOV slider isn't going to happen because the game is balanced around killers having a specific field of view. It has to be the same for everyone.
A wider default FOV would be very welcome, though.
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While this is true, it's also the sort of 'very small buff' that killers are probably due, now that solo survivor has been brought closer to SWF level via HUD action icons.
We already have a range of FoV's due to the existence of Shadowborn. And using Shadowborn also comes with it's own downsides, as the wider FoV it gives you also comes with a wider angle to be blinded from, which is part of the reason why it doesn't really deserve to take up a perk slot.
It's a weak perk, it doesn't actually help you out all that much as a killer, and that's why the only killers who run it are those who are more adversely affected by getting disoriented, such as Blight, Billy and Oni.
So I see no reason why a reasonable FoV slider shouldn't be valid, say a choice between 90, 95 and 100 degrees, complete with the blinding angle trade-off.
After all, the whole reason for making FoV an accessibility option, is that some players are sensitive to FoV's that are either too big OR too small, and get motion sickness from it.
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The visual heartbeat is arguably a buff and the HUD challenges are unquestionably a buff. So yes, it makes sense that being able to play without getting nauseous looking out of a Pringle can would be a buff.
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There's pros and cons to having a wider field of view in DbD. You can see more, but the trade-off is that you are much easier to blind.
I once blinded a Shadowborn Nurse when I was practically right behind her. Increasing your FoV is pretty risky, imo.
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I tend to agree on this, though I would not think a FOV is the way to go about it. Rather a higher base FOV for all killers.
360s should definitely not be a thing, counterable or not. Or at the very least should not be so easily done.
New perk please? Reduce FOV in exchange for buffs xD
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Oh good, a FOV thread, I can finally ask this (and I swear I'm not being a Judgemental B, I legit don't get it)
What is the accessibility fix that a FOV slider would give? I can see why you'd want one for gameplay reasons (larger FOV gives you more to see so you might catch a survivor out of the corner of your eye you otherwise missed) but I don't get how that is an accessibility issue.
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- Some players suffer from motion sickness with a narrow FoV, they either can't play killer, or they have to run Shadowborn as a necessity, essentially robbing them of a perk slot because Shadowborn is a terrible perk.
- Similarly, some players (probably even fewer than the above though) suffer from motion sickness with a FP FoV that's too big, these people cannot run Shadowborn, because then they get motion sickness, so simply raising the static FoV is't a solution, there needs to be a choice, and one that doesn't consume a perk slot.
- A narrow FoV leads to a high level of disorientation whether you suffer from motion sickness or not, playing killer is incredibly disorienting, viewing the world through a set of binoculars strapped to your eye sockets. This is what enables survivors to literally hide on your toes, or spin you around. While survivors have become used to these tactics that doesn't mean these "techs" are an essential part of survivor gameplay, any more than the old instant flashlight blinds or hook facecamping used to be. This is a QoL issue that killers have had to simply 'put up with' since the game's inception.
Simply "spotting a survivor out of the corner of your eye" is the last concern for killers, you don't expect to be able to spot survivors more easily with a wider FoV, it's about disorientation, whether in close-quarters with a survivor, or because of very real issue of motion sickness preventing play at all.
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Motion Sickness, some people can't play video-games (specifically, First-Person) if the FoV is lower or equal to 90, and the default killer FoV is 87.
I can't play killer without Shadowborn cause I get nauseous/headaches without it.
The FOV of FP games that I play need to be 100 or higher.
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People who get motion sickness, or have other visual impairments that aren't about color.
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Huh...that's not something I've really ever heard of before but I'll take y'alls word for it.
Edit: I googled it and it seems to be common enough that it has a name; Simulator Sickness. I've never had any issues like that and figured motion sickness would be caused by...well...motion. Although I suppose your FOV is motion when you're whippin your head back and forth searching.
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The FOV slider is the single most important graphics option in gaming by at least one metric: it can literally stop a game from making you feel sick.
"You would love for the FOV of the camera in the game to mimic the FOV of you actually moving through the actual world"
The closer your FOV setting comes to mirroring the portion of your vision the screen in front of you takes up, the more intuitive sense it will make to your brain. This is why there's no such thing as the "best" FOV for any game: that number will vary dramatically based on how big your screen is and how close you are to it.
I'm a little surprised that people think one is just better than the other. No. It's literally a personal, perceptual thing.
That's why people having been asking for FoV Slider and why my FoV in FP games need to be 100 or higher.
Read this: https://www.pcgamer.com/why-low-fov-in-first-person-games-can-make-you-feel-nauseous/
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I personally don't get motion sickness, nor have visual impairment. I don't know if there is a term for what i have, but in general, i get bad headaches if i have an FoV that is much less than 90-100 in most games after playing for any more than an hour. I generally get around this by playing a round or 2 of survivor in between my killer games to let my eyes rest a bit, but it causes me issues on longer sessions.
For context, the default FoV of killer is 87, which is really tiny. Most FPS games tend to default around 100ish, and for competitive ones let you slide it up to 120. Normal human FoV is 170-180 depending on the person, but obviously you are looking at a screen, so when you extrapolate that out, 100 is probably more natural in games.
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Killers should get a gen audio accessibility notification, as well. They can hear it, anyway. A visual aid so you can hear gens would be helpful for the hard of hearing folks. Same logic applied to the survivors accessibility options - what about the killer players?
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I agree with this as well. In general i think audio needs to be done for killers as well for injured survivors and footsteps.
Saw an article about a game that did this with raytracing and looked pretty good.
Here is the video of it:
https://www.tiktok.com/@wepcgaming/video/7203661769015889158
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An Fov slider wouldn't make any sense. Everyone would just set it to the max.
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While this is likely, in order to serve as an accessibility option, it needs to be an option. So that those who are sensitive to wide FoV's can choose a narrower option.
90, 95 and 100 degrees would make decent options.
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I wouldn't, and I don't expect it to tbh. I personally really dislike shadowborn and how it makes things look and there are downsides to doing that (increased flashlight blind angles, for instance) and it makes me miss a lot of hatchets and stuff because it changes how distance is perceived. But it should be a slider regardless for the people that need it.
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On its most basic level, survivors track killer by terror radius (auditory cue) and killers track survivors by scratch marks (visual cue). Killers got a visual accessibility option in colourblind mode, and survivors get an auditory accessibility option in the form of this heartbeat. Not saying a FOV option for killers shouldn't be implemented at some stage, but if we are doing accessibility tit for tat then I feel like the devs have shown they're not intentionally ignoring one side.
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Have you ever tried playing killer? I'm actually curious because gameplay uses alot of sound to track survivors or get close to gens a hear if they are been worked on. I would think is almost impossible to play killer with hearing impairment.
Dbd mobile add sound notifications for all that. So it's definitely a possibility.
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Alot of tracking on killer is done with audio. Scratch marks give you general locations but to find a survivor is normal done with audio like injured noises, vault sounds,locker sounds. Imagine trying to mind game a survivor and you can't hear them been injured or even vault.
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I wasn't trying to be condescending or nothing like that I'm actually curious on the viability of playing killer with hearing difficulties. Not been able to hear a survivor behind a wall or a gen been worked on in the distance would be extremely difficult.
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The simple reason is that the moment they do give us a slider is the moment they have to update/patch all future and past viewmodels to correctly display.
The example above should explain why, but to define it; they would need to further tweak this for the slider, possibly even make a new model.
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There’s no reason why killer shouldn’t get an FOV slider other than the fact that BHVR fears upsetting survivors more than they fear upsetting killers. I find it pretty comical that killers have to beg for a QOL feature that is present in 99% of first-person games.
They’re so afraid of survivor backlash that you can’t even see the hook stages of survivors while playing killer even if you have the hook stage tracker turned on in your settings.
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Because balance is tied to FOV. Why would you ever not have it at max? Just to handicap yourself?
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Still not seeing a reason why Shadow Born can’t be basekit at the bare minimum
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Then what will Shadowborn do? Prevent FOV from changing? Again it all means extra work that seemingly is too much of a hassle for the devteam
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Lmao it would be easy to give Shadow Born a new ability. They could literally just make anything up and change the perk if they wanted to. There are so many bad/useless perks that it wouldn’t matter if they changed it to be a trash perk.
New Shadow Born: Dark Mist on maps is longer visible for the killer.
Boom. Now the perk counters mist offerings. Now increase our FOV by 15 degrees.
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It's no big deal totally understandable. Have you tried stridor? I didn't even think about those been used like thay. It's still quite a lot of your perk slots been used just to make killer somewhat playable.
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ShadowBorne make survivors glowing like Freddy dream, make them impossible to hide in the dark/grass.
If FOV ever change, I hope it would only be horizon, not vertical.
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Personally, and anecdotally, I track mostly with sight and only sometimes audio. I usually have music and stuff playing in the background that I pause if I have to super concentrate. I'm mostly deaf in one of my ears - but not completely deaf, so it's not impossible, it's just different.
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There is so much info that is audio to the point were I play with headphones to pick up on it. Like how do you mindgame a survivor you can't see they can just w out or reposition?
It's crazy to hear about people playing killer with hearing difficulties to me because I use sound so much when playing killer I didn't even think of playing without it.
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I don't really know how to describe it honestly it's just sort of second nature to me after thousands of hours in the game. I realistically can't really play spirit that well (and I don't want run DCB out of principal) - so a lot my movements with her are mostly just based on predictions on what survivors are doing.
I only play with headphones though, and have always since I started, so the audio (and whatever I have on in the background) is always close to my ears. If I didn't play without headphones it would probably be a different story.
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You probably notice alot of little things visually that I would miss. It sounds like you use a totally different skill set .
It would be nice to see some audio accessibility options for killer like I said dbd mobile has visual cues for gens and thing of that nature idk why they haven't added it to the base game.
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You can get an FoV increase with Shadowborn and the models are fine. All that is required is adding an options setting.
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My idea for Shadowborn is to, given its name, spawn in the match with the undetectable status effect:
Shadowborn
- Begin the trial with the undetectable status effect
- Effect lasts for 60/90/120 seconds
- (Maybe make it disable upon downing a survivor, depends)
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I'm aware, that's why i said on a base level. Likewise, terror radius only tells survivors that the killer is nearby, not the direction they are in. The latter comes from a visual cue (ie red stain) so obviously both auditory and visual cues matter to both sides. But on a base level, we know the general location of killer via audio and survivor via visual.
But short of basekit Killer instinct or aura reading, it's very difficult to address it on the killers side without giving an advantage to those who arent hearing impaired. It would completely negate any chance of mind games for survivors and chases would be over very quickly. This heartbeat will presumably kick in at the same time the TR does, hence those who aren't hearing impaired don't get any particular advantage.
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In regards to the more recent Posts: I'm amazed both by people who can tell where the killer is coming from based on their footsteps and/or clothes sound - or where exactly a survivor is based on footsteps. Irl I have pretty good echolocation skills - but in game? Nah. Heck, I even sometimes use distortion in part to know if the killer is coming cause smh I just miss the TR.
But back to topic: as people have pointed out the FOV matters balance wise. Doesn't mean it's unchangeable because of that, just that it will have to be followed by probably quite some re-balancing. It is more than QoL for most players.
I wonder though; flat imcreased FOV aside are they ways to alleviate the motion sickness? Think how with Clown you get the crosshairs. If the FOV was wider but colours and contrast faded out toward the sides - until it's pretty much grayscale with rather small colour range - would that help with motion sickness? You get the reference for your eyes and your brain to not go bananas but you can't really do anything with that info when it comes to the game (safe for someone being very obvious in your peripheral view by making big movements - cosmetics, scratchies, pools of blood would effectively be removed from the FOV-added peripherak view)
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The FOV was set back in 2016 when the game was a hide and seek simulator, and Legion is about the only killer that has FOV changes tied to their power, other than Slinger ADS.
Hell, even during the "slugging ptb" with the Last Man Standing mechanic, they made the FOV increase you got when only 1 survivor was standing into a toggle.
Probably because gaining and losing FOV could cause motion sickness, but still.
I say we add a slider, see how many players use it, and monitor the killrates. Everything else is just speculation.
Decent idea, a little odd considering it's a Wraith perk but I like it.
How about, start undetectable for 30s duration, lasts till your first down, also extends Undetectable effects by 2s lasting the whole trial? That would actually be a pretty fun perk. Kind of like a "Stealth" Lethal Pursuer?
Post edited by MrMori on1 -
I, personally, don't have any trouble with motion sickness. However, I do get disoriented very easy when playing DBD. I know the maps and loops like the back of my hand but every time I have to turn very fast (like when playing Blight, Billy or Oni) I need a split second to orient myself. Shadowborn helps me deal with that. With the increased FOV I can easily turn 360° without issues. On some killers I can play without it but it's definitely not a nice feeling, when you have to adjust how you play to it.
This shouldn't be locked behind a perk. It's a QoL issue that should be addressed. A FOV slider would be a slight advantage but not any more than the visual indicator of the killer's TR. After all, sometimes you didn't hear the TR over a gen being worked on, your friends talking etc.
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Visual hearbeat helps vs certain killers that have a faint terror radius at the start
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Buff tbags in exchange... Wondeful! Actua good change!
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It makes me sad to see many comments that view FOV slider / buff as something like old Eruption free for every killer.
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I see many people say Shadowborn gives you a bigger range to get flashlighted.
Is there a video of this somewhere?
It wouldn't be the first time the community was convinced of something that wasen't actually true
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BHVR could just increase the FoV, but not increase the flashlight angles. To be honest, the flashlight angles are already questionable, where survivors can get flashlight angles, even when the flashlight itself isn’t anywhere near the killer’s FoV.
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Flashlight blinds are based on your field of view basically. If you increase it it increase the angle which you can be blinded
It’s probably leftover from when shadowborn used to make you more vulnerable to flashlights too
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Good point. Might actually be a very small buff in that case.
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Excuse me what? Buff t-bags? That's what you understand from me suggesting to buff survivors stealth just a tiny bit?
Or is this a joke that I am not getting? In that case I apologize.
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