I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer.
You are removing two of the most functionally enjoyable and balanced addons for a killer by nerfing engravings in the way you are.
Engravings trade utility, for lethality. And a sharp increase in skill requirement per engraving added.
It is INCREDIBLY easy to counter as well, purely just by predropping and breaking for distance nonstop.
It's taken me roughly 4500 hours with double engravings ALONE to tell you, they do NOT need to be nerfed. Despite having all this time and experience, I can tell you, billy is STILL weak with them. It's why I enjoy billy, it's a challenge to win with a mechanically high skill ceiling character that's at a disadvantage. I regularily play with no slowdown, or occasionally just agitation and shadowborn and only queue lery's because I LOVE the unfair challenge. The overheat changes make no difference either, because overheat is only an issue against players BETTER than you, (until you reach extremely high skill levels). I understand overheat and it's impact VERY well, and it only becomes an issue if you're not aware of how to manage it, and it's a very basic skill to learn.
If you make those changes and nerf engravings, you neuter this killer to a place of irrelevance, and no overheat changes fix that. There is a cult following of double engraving players that has been bleeded out slowly by every billy change that's been made, ESPECIALLY over the past few years. I'd fairly confidently say i'm one of, if not the MOST experienced billy player, and I'm genuinely considering quitting this killer over the changes. And it doesn't stem from a place of bias for wanting a strong killer, I don't care about winning in the first place. It's purely from enjoyment of developing a mechanical movement skill because it's an incredibly unique, incredibly difficult, and incredibly satisfying skill. The high sensitivity inherently makes billy a high skill muscle memory challenge by design, similar to aiming, and removing the skill ceiling and potential range is just antithetical to what actually makes billy punishing! Remember, the faster you're moving, the more challenging that initial turn sensitivity is. That fast movement speed is EVERYTHING that matters, and inherently balances itself with the wind up/cooldown times of the chainsaw on TOP of the mechanical complexity.
That doesn't even get into the VERY intimate and frequently changing knowledge you have to develop about timings, every potential angle of exit of a loop, and which one is most likely by the skill assessment you've built of the player you're chasing, literal update-to-update environment hitbox changes, and other weird idiosyncrasies billy's chainsaw has. Overheat being added to the game was just salt in the wound.
Billy is HARD. That is FINE. There needs to be something like this in the game, because no other killer comes close. He's already on a knife's edge of being unusable and I say that with again, 4500 hours. Let's talk about making him better in a healthy way to serve his strengths in fun, or at least leaving him as is until he can be addressed in a healthier manner.
Please Behavior, reach out to me and talk. I don't want to see what makes me passionate about this game fully die.
Comments
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Bhvr, if you were to listen to anyone about Billy, this is the person you need to be listening to the most. He is one of the best Billy players in the world, and this post is right on the money.
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TL;DR - Billy shouldn't be balanced around a resource mechanic, aka, overheat. It's inherently flawed as the major balancing act is the time spent revving, mindgaming, positioning, and in cooldown/bump animation which are identical. You miss a saw, you restart chase, and it's REAL easy to miss a saw even as the best person doing it.
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Absolutely true, please listen to the players who have invested years of playing time in the characters you are changing.
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Imagine nerfing Billy and not Blight.
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This post is entirely correct. I consider myself an above avg hillbilly main with around 1.2k hours purely on double engraving billy, and to this day, there are loops I still struggle greatly on. engravings do not at all need a nerf. I've only enjoyed this game because of double engraving billy because of how unique it is from any other killer. I genuinely think nerfing engravings will entirely make me stop playing DBD altogether.
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I think the thought process was:
"Billys with the highest killrate always use these addons! We should nerf them, they must be too strong"
without taking a closer look as to why they're used in the first place:
"Billys with the highest killrate always use these addons! Why? hmm, they like curving eventhough it isnt the most optimal gameplay option. It must be just that fun. Let's keep it."
Also: this fine gentleman has already suffered from the tragedy that was skybilly's removal. Another thing that is inherently off meta and enjoyable to play look at and watch unfold for any side, sepctator, survivor, and killer.
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Came here to post the same thing, Billy can already feel awful to play and playing Billy with double engravings takes a lot of time investment. How can you guys honestly nerf double engravings while leaving Blight's speed addons completely untouched? Or his alch ring? Are you guys blind? Seriously, the changes are ridiculous at this point, find a better way to interpret the stats you take and start listening to people who actually play the game.
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Pretty sure a perfect example of survivorship bias. High performing killer, despite nerfs, still does well. Thing is though, it will continue to do so, because the only ones remaining to actually PERFORM on killer are those who are incredibly dedicated and skilled to a ridiculous degree.
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Listening to the professional Hillbilly players is what caused Hillbilly to be insufferable to play as for any casual player. He is just too hard to play and only hardcore experts play him. Listen instead to the rest of the community who does not play him, ask them why they don't play him. Hillbilly is like Nurse in that regard, completely insufferable to play as except you get mediocre results for your sweat. bHVR could have given him quality of life, change the power. but that would not fly.
Leather face is a much more viable and open to other players kind of Killer, but you have to pay for him.
Like have you seen the gameplay vs a Good Hillbilly? they walking back and forth revving the chainsaw around the same loop for a min and then BOOM insta-down. Its super boring and Im glad I never see a Hillbilly nor have any want to play as them. Hillbilly needs a full rework of his Power and a reduction of addons that show too high a kill rate is a good solution while we wait. Make Hillbilly fun and easier to play instead of gatekeeping him hard.
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ok no reason to play the game now, wonderful
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Dude, listen here.
Billy's literally on saving grave has been Doom Engravings and Death Engravings. They made loops that you otherwise couldnt play actually playable, they made him more fun to play since there was more overall you could do with their ability. Look at 95% of Billy main's loadouts and youll see them using at least 1 Engraving.
DBD has horrible map design, especially with most recently released maps/reworks, but Engravings made those maps somewhat tolerable, or dare I say, fun. Many people literally only play Billy because of Engravings, they take skill to use and felt rewarding, but this nerf just punishes you for using addons that were already considered balanced (since they gave lethality but required precision and skill), and it just kills the enjoyment.
All this does is just shift the way Engravings plays. The difficulty is made further difficult, yet the reward is literally the same, "the goalpost hasnt moved but now the field is covered in spike pits and landmines". It just sucks, most people can agree. I think a lot of Billy mains are going to either quit or just move to Blight, there is no reason for them to not do so, I know Im going to be moving to Blight.
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I don’t even play billy because he is already garbage. It’s like the devs are stuck in theee years ago when he mattered. I’d get more kills in this game with zap brannigan and a mine craft pick than billy
the billy nerf is the single stupidest part of this update. Sounds like someone at behavior got schooled by a billy and are mad about it.
not a single player wanted this.
six months from now: on we see billy is under performing so we’re gonna need his remaining addons
billy is the new pig. Everyone just needs to get on board and change the meme
“killers are tunneling more after we nerfed all gen perks so we are needing billy, he no longer dashes, instadowns, or has addons. But we did add more depressing lore for him in the new time”
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And the engravings will still probably be the most used because the rest of his add ons are still awful. It changes nothing but makes an already clunky killer clunkier.
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vouch
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You're probably one of the only players I've ever run into that sees it this way. From a survivor stand point Billy has a huge amount of counter play and enjoyable looping, usually always involving skill from both sides. Billy isn't insufferable to play because his power, or addons, or the skill floor and ceiling being high. Billy is insufferable to play for a lot of people because of the overheat mechanic as well as the map design over the past 2-3 years making him suffer more than most other killers.
Almost every survivor regardless of skill that I run into when I play Billy enjoys going against him, especially when using double engravings and curving. That sentiment is also shared heavily in the community on these forums and on reddit. You literally sound like you've attempted playing him for 5 hours and quit, that isn't a problem with the killer, that's a problem with you.
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This.
Imagine thinking "Hmm, you know what notable killer moves crazy fast and has speed addons that desparately need to be re-adjusted? What's his name? Oh right... Hillbilly."
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Well I'm glad I can introduce you to a different point of view, but its beyond weird you say you never have met anyone who didn't like playing against current Hillbilly. Even so how you say he is insufferable to play yet say its a "my problem" when I played him for 5 hours and quit.
Yes. Any killer you have to play more 5 hours with to do anything with really bad way to treat a product. Nurse too.
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That's just how he is at this point. It's balanced, if not weak leaning. And the "kill rate of X" concept is literally the fallacy I described earlier.
There's nearly 30 killers in this game. Nurse and huntress are incredibly easy in comparison. It's not a bad thing to have a difficult killer, especially if he's easily counterable as he is now. If you remove the skill element, which is DIRECTLY tied to speed, you get a worse blight, and a much less fun one at that. Just as much as some people enjoy hiding and sneaking around, some people enjoy chase. Billy's the epitome skill interaction in chase with double engravings, and you have to invest a literal job's worth of time to get to the point where he can be considered "oppressive".
Like, he wouldn't be more fun, he's just going to be a loud wraith. Basekit movement speed billy is ungodly bad, and even at the current speed of double engravings, he's STILL really easy to keep away. It's just going to be boring at that point.
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Just jumping in here to provide feedback as well. I've got roughly the same amount of hours as Vel on Billy alone (11k hours total) and we've even had lengthy discussions on discord about the state of billy and how he could be changed to address those concerns. This change is, with all due respect, idiotic at best and outright incompetent at worst. Billy already has a significant amount of counterplay and the saw is difficult (but not impossible) to land on good survivors if you're trying to curve. The engravings, whether you're running doom / lopro or death, are required because without any kind of base speed increase you're simply too slow to be a threat in loops. This doesn't even begin to cover the fact that of his addons, only 4 (punctured muffler, death, doom and lopro) are decent (i'm not including carb because it's extremely map dependent to provide consistent value).
Running both engravings provides a unique playstyle that as Vel stated allows a high expression of mechanical skill with Billy. Nerfing the engravings not only lowers that skill ceiling but also makes him worse to play for existing billy mains. Him being a hard killer to learn is fine, but at least allow there to be an incentive for players wanting to adopt the curving style of play. Each time you miss with your power it's almost the equivalent of being hit by old DS. Not to mention that with both engravings you're already looking at roughly a 3.2 sec charge time, something that is already punishing enough without further nerfs to the speed.
It is absurd that in the same patch you're also buffing nurse, allowing multiple problematic addons from far stronger killers to continue reigning supreme (pick a blight one, tombstone piece etc.) yet somehow deciding to nerf the few viable options billy has with only a 54% kill rate. Please strongly reconsider reverting this change or at least buffing the base kit speed similar to what was done with Demo to offset the addon changes.
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Devs, Please listen to this guy
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And to be very clear, it needs to compensate fully. I cannot stress this enough, billy NEEDS the speed he already has with doubles. If it's dropped to be any less, he won't be worth playing.
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Living in a world where Billy is nerfed yet again, but Compound 33, Adrenaline Vial, Double Speed Blight exists is insane.
While I understand that you can't do all killers at once, perhaps you should prioritize killers that have extremely high pick rates, not killers that are seen once a month like Billy.
Note: I'm not even complaining about Tombstone piece, that is WIDELY agreed upon as the MOST BROKEN add-on in the game, because it's on a killer that has a much lower pick rate than someone like Blight, even though it should be addressed.
There are very few Billy players left and every patch this game gets more and more difficult to play him. I'm fine with a challenge, but I'm not fine with being challenged and not being REWARDED for that challenge. Currently there are so many pallets on maps that every survivor has turned into a Windows of Opportunity robot that runs from pallet to pallet and insta drops them with no thought.
You might say, "That's a map balance problem" and I agree with that! Do you know what HARD COUNTERS Double Engravings Billy? Pre-dropping. The strongest thing right now - you see it every game - it counters Billy, so we're compensating a slight nerf to overheat by nerfing one of Billy's 6 decent add-ons.
Billy is rare, but my favorite killer to play and verse. In this tiny group of Billys there are 4 types.
1- Baby Billy: These people are very new to Billy and are often just playing him for adept. They use their chainsaw simply to traverse the map (so you're nerfing new players with the extra over heat for sprinting) and they simply M1 down you with their hammer, or get a lucky back rev sometimes. Often they're running Dad's Boots (because they don't understand BIlly's mechanics), Bump addons or Overheat add-ons.
2- Drift Billy: This Billy is really only played by people that are 100% just there to have fun and give everyone a fun time - 0% sweat. They usually run one of these add-on combos.
-Double Boots
-Boots / Engraving
-Boots / Apex Muffler (Stealth Drift Billy)
This version of Billy is not optimal, but is chill FUN and easily shut down if survivors just pay attention around them. He's also very slow, because Billy's base-kit speed is truly a joke. If anything Death Engraving should be base-kit (without a nerf whatsoever). However, this change actually manages to nerf Drift Billy, the most silly / fun version of Billy for people that aren't even used to going against Billy and have a low barrier to entry for people that are new to Billy.
3- Curve Billy: This Billy is by far one of the most difficult Billys to master. If the player is experienced at Billy and skilled with him, they will be able to get decent results playing for curves. Curve Billy is running Doom & Death Engraving together - giving a very tiny window to curve during Billy's sensitivity period. Doing this requires lots of practice and with the CONSTANT collision changes to every single map, you have to learn every object on the map and how Billy interacts with them.
Playing with Doubles requires the person playing Billy to outplay the survivor with mind games and rewards them with a quick insta-down if the survivor misplays. This play style is EASILY shut down by pre-dropping pallets, which is very common in the current meta of Dead By Daylight.
This is the Billy I play and my favorite to verse. I started learning curve Billy, because I quickly realized when I went against a good Curve Billy that it was the most thrilling chase in the entire game. If you greed pallets, it's 100% a chase decided by who has the better mind games / awareness, and feels unbelievably rewarding.
The charge time is already very painful for Doubles, but you are rewarded with speed for it and the skill of learning to "feather" (99% charge) your chainsaw. Not only is pre-dropping very strong against Curve Billy, but so are windows. There are MANY draw backs for running doubles. Not to mention, so few people greed pallets against anyone anymore, even Billy, because most people don't get to experience Billy / learn how to play against him since his original nerf a few years ago, they're basically non-existent, so the challenges of playing Curve Billy grow.
4- Optimal Billy: This is usually Doom Engraving + Lo Pro and pretty much Billy's "sweatiest" combo. Basically if you're running this, you want to win, which is fine. This gives Billy's chainsaw enough speed that it can be lethal with a quick mind game if the survivor slips up. However, does not guarantee that Billy is able to fully take advantage of the slip up, because they're not running double speed. The trade off for this is Lo Pro and is basically required for being viable as Billy in the current meta of DBD.
If you spend a week playing Billy trying to primarily use your chainsaw, you will quickly realize just how brutal it is to play Billy. People don't play Billy, because he's an OP insta-down killer, they play him, because he's challenging and rewarding. Unfortunately, since so few people play him and the player base has increased DRASTICALLY since his nerf, most people insta-drop pallets in Billy's face, which is where Lo Pro comes in. This rewards him with being able to go through the pallet and get one health state of damage and then Billy can choose to either still use their chainsaw for the second hit, or basic attack down them. The thing is, this is still FULLY COUNTERED by someone pre-dropping a pallet early, instead of doing it in Billy's face, so he is still a killer that can completely have his power deleted with how many pallets are currently on maps. Even with all of the obstacles that Billy players face, people still play Billy, because of the challenge and how rewarding he feels when played well. By nerfing Doom (and Death) Engravings, you're taking half of his only actual viable combo for "WINNING" semi-consistently and throwing it in the trash.
If you nerf Billy's engravings, he needs a base-kit speed increase. While we're not all as crazy as gtVel and send ourselves to Lery's (Billy's personal hell), we don't play Billy to absolutely stomp people. We play him for how rewarding it feels to do well with a weak killer when mastered. Nerfing engravings is basically saying, "Hey, we only want you to use your chainsaw for mobility" and then be a Basic Attack Killer", because you're effectively removing the add-ons that make Billy even SOMEWHAT viable.
We dealt with the removal of Sky Billy that was done with Double Engravings. We've dealt with how defeating it feels to sprint off a hill and instantly drop down instead of having any velocity. We've dealt with more and more maps being made without having Billy in mind whatsoever. We've dealt with horrible collision. We've dealt with more and more pallets. We've dealt with overheat that really only hurts people who are new to Billy, or Billy's that are just having fun chases with experienced survivors that want to have an enjoyable chase or 1v1. Please, don't do this.
I try my best to find a positive in everything you guys do, even if I don't agree with a lot (the flash light changes, etc), but this is one that is truly unneeded or deserved. Please stop balancing the game around "Pick Rate" and start discovering why things are picked so much. Perhaps Billy's engravings are picked a lot, because he has so few viable add-ons and even if he did have more viable add-ons, these shouldn't be nerfed simply because they are a chosen play style that isn't broken to go against. In a world where Knight, the killer that just insta drops an A.I gollum to win the chase EVEN AT Z WALLS exists, can we please stop nerfing an already suffering killer.
Every patch you're removing more and more that experienced players care about or enjoy, please don't do this. I don't know if any of the balance team plays Billy, so maybe they don't understand, but spend a WEEK in Billy's shoes - I beg. Please play him trying to primarily use your chainsaw WITH THOSE ADD-ONS for a week, and tell me if they need to be nerfed. I promise, you will change your mind immediately. The fact that Billy has an add-on that increases charge speed when someone is blinding Billy shows you the absolute night and day of his add-ons, which should also show you why these are some of the only viable ones he has.
Alright, end of wall of text, but I'm very passionate about this. Please start speaking to experienced players in your community. Stop listening to just your new players, you are deleting every bit of player agency in this game and removing any sort of new skill to be learned after a few hundred hours.
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I fully agree, that's the only way this change would be acceptable. In addition, I would argue that if the overheat amount is being nerfed then the charge times on the engravings need to come down as well. Otherwise we're looking at a double nerf without meaningful compensation.
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I'm really not sure what you're trying to tell me here, but I am a former Billy main I'm well aware of the steep learning curve compared to everyone else and the various issues surrounding Billy. In fact the learning curve is why I even chose to spend a lot of time with him in the first place. I think having killers with high skill ceilings and still floors is healthy because it gives good options. You want purely mechanical killer to grind and get good at? Billy/blight. Want a killer with simple mechanics that also has a high skill ceiling? Nurse, huntress, etc. If Billy was any more simple to play I think that would absolutely ruin him. If you don't want a killer you don't have to grind and get good at , then don't play him. Play any other killer. That's all I'm going to say on that subject.
To be honest with you I will never agree with anything you just said in this post, and hillbilly is actively the only killer I even enjoy facing at survivor, especially double engravings because of the fun looping mechanics on both sides. A good Billy obviously takes a lot of skill to be, and it does take enough skill to go against as well. To me that's the definition of fun on both sides.
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I agree partially, but that isn't the consequence of gentlemen who're able to land absolutelly rancid curves, it's a result of problems that bother the beginner more than the expert IMO.
- Overheat is mostly a non-factor for experienced players, newer player constantly get put on cooldown.
- great billy dont bump into objects nearly as often as beginners, who suffer from 5 sec stuns every second stride.
- players aware of what objects have good and bad collision know where and where not to chase, inexperienced billy players will undoubtedly have to learn that bushes = danger the hard way.
The overheat one is addressed a little in this update, which is nice.
Overall, these have nothing to do with "pro-billys", rather, they're somewhat of an inspiration, showing that one can overcome these problems. If those stop playing, we wont see the really fun sides of billy anymore. the amount of mindgames that occur at one filler pallet is peak survivor chase gameplay to me.
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"You're probably one of the only players ive ever run into that sees it this way"
Man be discovering how echo chambers work, and DBD players sure know Billy mains love their echo chambers.
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no, it's generally the viewpoint of most players who become super experienced as survivor as well
usually those people quit over time due to things like this happening, so you hear less and less from them
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i am just speechless. this balance change is so unbelievably terrible im baffled as to what to say. where would i even begin if bhvr cannot seem to understand such an obvious fact that billy does not at all deserve a nerf? i cannot think of anything constructive to add onto this post. im just a bit depressed. all i can say is that i hope bhvr sees this and rethinks this decision.
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Source: Trust me bro I know the opinion of every survivor player in the world
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Source is actually me basically being an oft visited stream by a lot of VERY high hour players, and most of them can't play billy at all. You actually do start to know most people up there once you put around 6000+ hours total in the game and stream it for the past few years. People love billy, it's a super common sentiment with high hour players.
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if bhvr won't listen to vel, then billy is just gone, literally THE billy guy as of late since most other billy mains quit the game or went to main someone who doesn't get 50 nerfs a day (over exaggeration obviously).
please dear god let billy have something that doesn't relate to zoning
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This is truly ignorant. When you get a certain amount of hours in Dead By Daylight, ESPECIALLY if you are a streamer for the game, you start to know many people in the community. The only survivors that I come across who ever have an issue with Billy are those that are rather new to the game and think he's a VERY FAST Bubba, because he's so rare now, they know nothing about him. Most people with a decent amount of time in the game LOVE going against Billy. Some of them love going against him for different reasons. Some love the chase and enjoy being very greedy / hard to read, so those crazy mind games can be outplayed. Some just enjoy an easy win, so they pre-drop pallets like crazy and massively out play Billy's chainsaw. However, I almost never have an experienced survivor tell me they don't like Billy. You get the rare survivors that just hate ANY insta-down mechanic, but they usually aren't bothered by Billy, because they simply pre-drop every pallet and get a GGEZ 4 man escape.
Source: Streaming DBD for over 2 years and in many communities with survivors that have thousands of hours. I'm a 50/50 main who plays survivor and Billy. I know many very skilled Billys, so I've experienced just about every mind game they pull on people and personally I find it to be the most thrilling chase in the game. Oh and not to mention gtVel a partnered streamer on Twitch that plays a ridiculous amount of Billy and is in many communities with high hour players on both sides - he's seen it all. So, sure, "Trust him bro" is accurate, because you should, he's basically the Billy dictionary.
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That is still bad product design. bHVR really ought to packup that idea of keeping a Killer being insufferable to play as just because someone says "It's not a bad thing to have a difficult killer" is really bad. Luckily for us they dont make Killers anymore that are insufferable to play as, they have well designed powers you can easily use and that is why Hillbilly deserves a rework instead of life support in death while being bad to play as.
A high skill ceiling? Sure you can have it, but there has to be standards for mechanical requirements to play a Killer and billy is way off.
I'm glad you are aware of the issues with Hillbilly, but im not here to retell you that. Im here to suggest to bHVR a full rework of Hillbilly would be better than what exists now. Its fine if you want to tell me not to play him. I already stopped. I only play him when I have a daily to give him a worthy try like every month, but its rarely worth the trouble.
These are concerns I raise cause its just a unhealthy way to manage a product. bHVR needs to realize that.
Overheat has never been an issue for me on Hillbilly. Less overheat will do little to improve his play rate. Nor has bumping into stuff. Its the mechanical requirement that is out of whack. I think bHVR could solve that with a rework.
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The mechanical challenge isn't really even there. If you don't have engravings, he's not hard. That version of billy exists, he just needs better addons among other changes.
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Guys, I will have you know I have 50 viewers on twitch so my opinion is the only fact there is. Out of the 100's of 1000's that own and play this game I know what they all like and dislike. It is of complete coincidence that my billy only stream seems to only attract people who agree with me and because of this it is easy to determine that this is the majority.
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literally yes, I have heard thousands of people's opinions, I quite literally have interacted with that many
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Billy without speed is still available for newer players. You can traverse the map with your chainsaw, you can back rev very efficiently without speed for an insta down and break pallets quickly if someone drops them in your face. So, base-kit simple Billy is there. He may not be strong, but he's there and is definitely much easier to win with if you play like that and also basic attack more against newer players. It doesn't make him fun, or very viable against really good survivors. However, if we're talking about a low barrier to entry for newer players, Billy is more than accommodating. There is nothing wrong with his lethality having a higher skill floor and very high skill ceiling.
Edit: Forgot to add, but for those people that want a more "chill" version of Billy, let's look at the other 80% of useless addons he has like rev speed increase while being blinded. Or 20% quieter chainsaw, etc.
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I guess I still don't really understand why you think that having a high skill floor on a killer is unhealthy and justifies a full rework - if that's even your point, I really can't tell.
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I have about 1500 hours on hillbilly and mained him since 2018 and I agree with everything you said, if it wasn't for hillbilly I don't think I would even be playing kill today since other killer is as fun a Billy, If this update gose through to live I don't think I can play him and have the same level of fun I and well all other Billy mains do now
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Viability this optimal that. Why is it not okay for things to be hard to play? why is not okay to have to spend a lot of time devoted to something to play it at a top level if thats what you want? he doesn't need to be overpowered, he doesn't have to bring astounding results. People play him because curving around loops and outplaying people is HARD and fun. And that's okay. Listening to billy players to bring a billy that not only they, but everyone can enjoy is the best option here. The fact you say nurse brings mediocre results and is insufferable to play says the most.
You think only about winning and thats the issue with this game, everyone thinks about winning, fun is disregarded and its just creating a vicious cycle of boring gameplay. Y'know whats more boring? Having a billy zone and back rev you because thats all they'll do if these changes go through. Y'know whats boring? Having survivors forego looping to predrop pallets, use their E key or really any exhaustion perk and have the game play itself for them. Billy doesn't deserve this, he's fun and fair, bubba does the same as billy and you don't complain about that.
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It's pretty crazy then that you meet so few people who differ on billy then. Must be pretty jarring to come across more than one person too.
I think if we take a minute perceive even beyond that and think about hours that other people have and the amount of people they interact with as well we can come to an even wackier conclusion that peoples opinion vary beyond to our select groups. But then again the world seems to revolve around your twitch chat so maybe not KEKW.
For the record I have quite a few thousand hours, friends with quite a few as well and not everyone is head over heels over the stagnant gameplay that is flick billy. Not to mention this opinion is across the board from people with <100 to friends with +5000. But who knows clearly it's just a one sided perception that "everyone loves billy"
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No, I run into a lot of people who don't enjoy playing against him or playing as him. I understand my biases well. My statements stand.
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You dont seem to understand them well enough then lmao.
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Billy changes are so odd. It's like they have to have one "Calm Spirit" level of change included in every patch. No one asked for this, and no one thinks this is a good change.
I've never played Billy personally, and have little interest in his play style. But this change is wholly unnecessary.
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it's so strange to see the point entirely missed as much as it is
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Kappa
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not at all, you and your bud are confusing what i've said to be an attempt at an ego flex when you definitely are misreading the situation, and especially misunderstanding who I am as a person
Never said it was a thing of people telling me they love playing against me when I play billy. Just raw exposure to many people. It's really disappointing that you both had that as an immediate takeaway, especially for someone with your hour count.
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I have explained this a few times now.
Bad product design. You cant have many people enjoy a product if a high skill floor gatekeeps them from enjoying them, a high skill ceiling is fine. But if you make a Killer insufferable to play as, its a really bad idea. bHVR would not create a similar killer these days.
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i have around 800h with dbd my highest prestige is billy at p25. all my other killers( i have them all except artist and the skull lady) are at p3 with some exceptions( trapper at 10, legion at 9 and deathslinger and huntress both at 5) in truth i find most other killers pretty stale to play as their interactions hardily change at loops either you can dominate a certain loop ( such as trickster with anything waist high) or you can do jack ######### at it( just being trapper) and while mind gaming is certainly an option and all the fun that goes with it. hill billy was the only killer( and blight) where all the old loops changed for me, they became fresh as i tried to learn to curve with them, with only newer possibiltys as i started to explore his add ons( besides the completely worthless ones looking at you belt buckle) if this nerf would go through i fear i may not lose interest in dbd as a whole, the supposed buff to his heat generation is complete useless as the current time is still plenty, as why you would then nerf his abilty to cross the map is ludicrous to me as that was one of his few strengths and in the event of this why are there no nerfs to blight? when he can do this far better? please explain to me these changes and to the small community of billy players.
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enough to be communicating in mcclean's discord, but like, all of this is irrelevant? like why do you care so much about the weird side details here
Billy will be significantly less interesting, that's the point being made. Less chase interaction, more backrevving, and significantly more m1s.
That's not something that can be denied. Forget what's been said, that point i'm making is what's important.
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