The Dead Hard Change is Bad for the Game

Dead Hard allowed to make some risky plays along with other survivors and the Killer but since it seemed not to work 50% of the time, this were high risk high reward situations.

The change now makes the Perk not worth playing it since it - if not changed would seem to not work right - becomes like Deliverance which has a very small amount of use cases specially in a SWF.

If Dead Hard is now like the changes are proposed, this will instantly drop the perks value. There is now no trustworthy other second chance perk which allows a player to take a hit exept for `Metal of Man` which tbo no one really uses since you need to heal to take 3 protection Hits or you go down. In combination with the buff of Boon: Circle of Healing is now obsolete as well.

I would propose to change Dead Hard in a way that Killers can counter it better than "just bait and wait it out".

My Idea would be if you run back at the killer that this now wont work. since this would make it significantly harder to evade the killer.

or

In exchange for the Endurance status effect we reintroduce the Dead Hard Dash. This will give you a specific amount of distance and then make you exhausted much like overcome. It would counter the ability to get away with taking a Hit and vault a Window or "camp" a Pallet. It would just give you the right amout of distance to evade the killers swing.

In adition what isnt clear in the Developer Post is, if you used Dead Hard once, then unhook another Survivor will it bring back the ability to Dead Hard or dose this reduce the ability to evade one potential Hit.

Dont be mad that bHVR finally took a look at DH and saw it for the monster it is.

Yes. bHVR is killing it and killing it hard. They went even harder than my own suggestions as a Dead Hard hater.

As far as I'm reading it - yes.

If you use it but the killer misses/or did it by accident but get your exhaustion back, you can use it again. If it protects you from a hit, you need to unhook someone to re-activate it.

Thank you.

I wonder, given We're Gonna Live Forever is also a David perk, if adding "Protection Hit" to ways to activate it would be worthwhile

Its funny I didn't even think of this. They really encourage tunnelling with this change at the peak of tunneling being an issue lol

The Dead Hard change is great for the game. Now it has to be earned, can't be used at the start of the game, and it has a hard cap on how many times it can be used in a match by the whole team. I also like the flimsy excuse of "It will encourage tunneling!" like Dead Hard somehow stopped that from happening before. No, it didn't. Hitting the unhooked survivor is exactly the same as it was before.

Besides, Dead Hard has "lots of counterplay" so chasing the unhooking survivor and downing them should be so easy that killers won't choose to tunnel instead, right?

As a killer main seeing a dead hard nerf makes me happy, but I need to put my bias aside and look at this from another angle. One of my least favorite ways to change a perk is taking a perk that's activation is already pretty conditional and then making it even more conditional, which is essentially what they've done here.

An extra health state that could be used more than once in a game with no other restriction to it was always going to be strong. At least now, it's an extra health state with a condition. So while you can use it multiple times in a trial, it requires more effort to pull. Which is fair for what the perk does.

Please don't listen to this, BHVR. The Dead Hard change is fantastic, as is the change to Pain Res. It will keep Dead Hard a strong perk when it is active, but it will not feel unfair or frustrating. Plus, you don't have to expect it every single chase.

I think the people complaining about killers complaining should try different Exhaustion perks or god forbid, no Exhaustion perk, and see how it feels.

There's nothing a killer can do to stop a survivor from having access to Dead Hard at least twice in a match. Since in the absolute best case scenario where you are an instant down killer you put them into dying state first time, hook them, they get unhook, they are injured so they can dead hard, they get hooked again and unhooked, then they can dead hard again as the hook resets exhaustion and they are still injured. And if the killer doesn't have the ability to instant down a survivor, then the survivor has access to dead hard 3 times.

Multiple by this by 4 times for each survivor in the trial. So a killer can easily face 8-12 dead hards in a match if every survivor brings the perk.

So no, killers aren't bad because dead hard gets used multiple times against them in a match. As dead hard currently works that's just inevitable.

Dead Hard doesn't deactivate until it actually blocks a hit. So messing up a dead hard doesn't prevent you from using dead hard later.

I think tunneling killers will continue tunneling for the reasons they always have, a Dead Hard nerf isn't going to make that noticeably worse.

They said that you're competing with other survivors now for getting unhooks to activate the perk, so there's a good chance you'll never get it activated in the first place.

And I agree that this will encourage tunneling, especially for the first person hooked in a match. That person cannot use DH in their first chase. If the killer comes back to hook, their options are between the injured person with no DH or a healthy unhooker that potentially now has an active DH. It's a no-brainer choice. And as someone who has experienced A LOT of tunneling off-hook at 5 gens the past few weeks, I have less than zero faith that killers will not take advantage of knowing that an injured person can't have DH.

So your just going to ignore the fact that every major perk that killers have been using while you all gen rush has been nerfed with nothing being done on the survivors side to slow down gen rush? We just gonna ignore that? Or am I just being a cry baby...

Oh honey that's a complete new sentence, nobody here is talking about that. Make your own forum thread about it. This is about Dead Hard

Unlike most of the others, Dead Hard is a chase perk and tunnelling affects the WHOLE team, not just the victim

I literally explained what's changed like 3 different times, do I need to draw it for you to make it simpler?

Apparently because telling you 3 different times that getting safe unhook doesn't give the savior dead hard, I gotta draw it for you

Idk how you don't see a link between the 2 subjects. The game has been pushed in the direction of gens. The game isn't about chase anymore. Everything that has to do with chase is punishing for killer, and now that dead hard has been changed to a hook perk it gives killers a chance to finally be able to get people on the hook without having to deal with having to hit someone almost 5 times with perk set ups just to get one down. And you people wonder why we have to run gen slow down. There is no point in committing to a chase with you. If we do we get called tunnelers, if we don't commit and run back to defend gens, we are either unskilled or campers. What do you people want from us? Honestly? Killer mains are trying to win the game too, but every single game I play 3 gens are done within the first few minutes of the game. I get my 1 to 2 hooks, maybe more if I'm doing good, and I defend the areas since everyone wants to meme on the killer to try and i try to catch people out and maybe get some more hooks. If I leave to go kick a gen, I loose the hook, the survivor is ISNTANTLY healed to full, and i loose a bunch of time on MORE gens. What do you want me to do? Just sit there and shake my head up and down so you guys can have a free win?

Dead hard has needed a nerf for the LONGEST time because everyone uses it and it makes some chases impossible, especially for some newer people. Yall still have sprint burst and the stupid combo where you can string like 3 of them together at once. Keep bringing your stupid broken gen rush and loop builds and I'll bring my nerfed gen slow down build to try and stand a chance I guess.

I am personally still going to use DH, but the pick-rate of the perk will definitely plummet which is fine. many killer expressed discontent facing 4 dead hard's every game, so now you will see dead hard less. I am personally relieved because SB and Lithe have never really bothered me as killer. their counter-play is much easier then DH and a lot less game-changing as they provide a lot less distance.

DH itself isn't healthy for the game, no killer should be like, they might have that perk.

>> Why would I go after the person who just unhooked? 3 hits to down again versus 2 hits to down is simple math.

Yes, that is the point. This will incentivize tunneling.

Basekit BT only provides endurance for 7 seconds or so, so the killer can simply wait that out and then immediately re-down the survivor. DH used to be an option to protect the unhooked survivor if the killer waits out BT, but now it's dependent on whether that survivor had a prior unhook to activate the perk.

Given that DH now can't be reliably used off-hook and gen regression perks are getting gutted, a lot of killers are going to tunnel even more because A) no active DH makes it even easier than before, B) its going to take longer to get an unhooked survivor healed, leaving them vulnerable for longer, and C) making the game a 3v1 will be an efficient way to offset the loss of gen regression perks.

For the past several weeks, I have had killers tunnel directly off-hook in at least 40% of my survivor matches. I play mostly on the survivor side, so maybe I just play more survivor matches which would naturally lead to me seeing more instances of it. Either way, the BT and Haste do not stop it.

Not unhooking in the killer's face is also not always up to the survivors. If a killer is camping the hook - which also happens very often in my experience - then survivors may have no choice but to do an unsafe unhook. And especially in solo queue, where survivors often lack the coordination needed for a safe unhook against a camping killer.

I would definitely consider DH an anti-tunnel perk given that it gives a survivor something to defend themselves if the killer waits out the incredibly short BT. Clearly from my low number of posts, I'm new to this forum so I don't know what people have said in the past about whether DH is an anti-tunnel perk. But I'd appreciate not having my posts condescended as "I guess nobody could come up with a better argument against the changes" simply because you haven't heard it described that way before.

Anywho, DH change bad.