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I don't think DH is "dead perk", not at all
All what was nerfed is that now you need to rescue someone to activate it. It's the same perk in it's core, just now you have to do one extra step (nothing difficult) to have this perk activate and you can activate it many times in the game.
In fact, now it will be even more usefull againts Killers that are going for hooks (fair killers) instead of camping and tunneling. It will punish more Killers who try to give more chances to Survivors. Killers who will tunnel and camp this perk will effect less.
I wouldn't be suprised at all if after few weeks / months DH will slowly climb up again into top most used Survivor perks. Also don't forget Killers will probably suspect this perk less as the match continues so it might have bigger value.
It's still overall a nerf of course, but I don't think it's major one. Unhooking someone isn't something difficult at all... unless the Killer is camping with a good camping power (see, again punishing fair killers who don't camp).
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It's a really trash change that does everything the community doesn't want: It's blocked by camping, disabled by hard-tunnelling, and is going to work significantly worse in solo queue than in swiffers.
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If you get hard tunneled, you can have off the record. It does the exact same thing as dead hard without you having to activate it and time it coreectly I think, right?
It's an overall healthier change for the game, as too many survivors rely on it. It's the exact same perk BUT you need to unhook someone.
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It was a slap on the wrist for a nerf. People said the same thing about the other DH change except this time DH isn't head and shoulders above the other exhaustion perks. All the change really seems to do is make DH not do anything early game. Perk should be either number 2 or 3 for power. Certainly is still worth running but will not be the top exhaustion next patch.
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I kind of agree with this. Ive seen people say "people wont chase the unhooker because Dead Hard gives them an additional health state" but Dead Hard did that before anyways, the only thing that is changing is it now has a limited use factor to it and early game chases are now better.
I think less people will use DH, but it will still definitely be used, interactivity (the ability to choose when and where to use it) is one of the reasons why DH has remained prevalent compared to other Exhaustion perks.
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No, both Off the Record and DH are now disabled if the unhooked is hit off hook, since it denies a safe unhook and inflicts deep wounds which blocks endurance.
I'm fine with DH getting nerfed, it's just that this nerf specifically exacerbates some overarching issues with the game.
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yeah but DH is an base perk that you have david i dont have off the record
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Can't wait for the 6.1.0 phenomenon to repeat where no one will run DH for 2 weeks before it becomes the most used perk again. I hope BHVR are ready to nerf it again, if necessary.
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For one, its honestly your responsibility to make sure the person you unhooked doesnt get tunneled for the next few seconds at least to get the safe unhook. Dont just leave them to die.
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The way the nerf works means the survivors are punished if lots of them bring it. Only one person can unhook someone, so mutltiple DH users will be stepping on each other toes. It's the same reason Deliverance isn't more popular despite being busted good.
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It's kind of a terrible change.
It encourages tunneling and camping AND DH users will fight over unhooks.
It should be take a protection hit. Thematically consistent with David too
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I don't think that will happen. Running DH makes you have no exhaustion early game. And then if the killer eats your DH and leaves you need to reset otherwise the killer finding you again injured means you don't have an exhaustion. It'll be a strong exhaustion perk that see some play, but I don't see this perk being back to a high pick rate.
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Dh shouldn't be an exhaustion perk with the unhook condition,, it's the epitome of stupidity,, exhaustion perks are supposed to help you when you need the with only condition not being exhausted,, adrenaline doesn't count cuz its not traditional exhaustion perk,,
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The main strength of DH was its versatility, adding a Deliverance's requirement will definitely hurt it a lot.
It is not like you will never get any value out of it but for me it will be relegated to pure unhook builds.
Personally, i would like for the devs to at least give it the 1sec window to use it it had before since you are already paying a cost (safe unhook) for trying to use it alongside the exhaution and deep woumd
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You can't. If the killer wants to tunnel, you have no recourse as anyone other than the tunnelled.
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That would be such a good and thematic change it angers me that that isn't what they went with.
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Brother, decisive strike was the most used perk and it's a paid DLC. To get off the record you need to play at least 60 hours to get the character.
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I wholeheartedly agree, this is probably the worst change they have ever done. (For me)
I don’t even know how such a small window really wasn’t enough that they needed to nerf it further.
It boggles my mind how people are asking for something that is consistently meta (tunneling and camping) to change, even AFTER they introduced mini built in aids that served as a bandaid… and they do this. It’s like they want their game to be only about Tunneling/Camping and forcibly holding M1.
It is clear by the designs they have come out with on killer too. Which is part of the reason I have not touched this game in weeks.
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To be fair, Deliverance is also a 1 time use on your first hook. You can still unhook someone after being the first one hooked and able to use Dead Hard. So while multiple survivors bringing dead hard will conflict with each other, it's a bit more forgiving than Deliverance.
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Unhooking someone isn't something difficult at all.
It's not but only one can do it. If you are not camping and tunneling then your first two chases should be DH free. Even at that point only one survivor will have it active.
If a survivor activates it and sucessfully uses it, it's gone until they make another unhook.
Worst case you 8 hook with everyone on death hook. You are going to see much less DH activation than today because of this change.
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If my experience with Deliverance says something i will always be the first on the hook
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It's not dead at all. It will probably be B tier perk.
But it will stop being used by most people that will jump to lithe and SB.
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If someone's hard tunneling then they most likely already hit the basekit BT unless you went down near a deadzone.
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I said until you get a safe hook prompt. I didnt say prevent the hard tunneling until 5 gens pop. This is just about getting that dh token from a safe unhook. Thats it. Its not hard to do. Take a hit if you must
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Im pretty sure Dead Hard only can be used once after every safe unhook. It’s a bad perk now, let’s keep it real
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I have to stop playing fair after this update and instead tunnel every single game to avoid dh. That seems to be what developers encourage you to do from now on.
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Why after the update? What stops you from doing it now? Nothing.
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Unhooked can have ds and dh combo which is very powerful agains't tunneling. But not after this update. Well it's still usually best option to go after them but I prefer to play more fair play. But not after the update as I get too much punished. You will be rewarded not have to deal with dh from tunneling...
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The Dead Hard will still activate on the rescuing survivor, so long as it's a safe unhook. And if you hit a survivor with endurance after unhooking, the speed boost will get them enough distance away from you to buy at least 10 seconds most of the time, ensuring the safe unhook.
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OTR + DS? It exist today and will tomorrow and doesn't require timing.
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Tunneling and camping are seperate issues that need to be addressed. And with healing being nerfed, I hope they can nerf both those strategies. In fact, if they do not want to make many survivor players take a break from the game, they will absolutely have to nerf camping as well in this patch. Which would also nerf tunneling a bit indirectly.
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well, too be fair, if it only required a protection hit, then what's the point of Mettle of Man? there's a reason why that perk requires 3 protection hits before it activates
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DH is deadhard DS is decisive strike
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That is much worse than ds and dh combo. Killer can hit Otr immediatelly away and then down you like it didn't even exist... But ds takes deep wound away which means you can use dh after that making chase last potentially about 2+ minutes making tunneling unviable. But now that will be gone making tunneling most viable option always. You could technically use Otr in this combo but I think it bit too much most killers anyway hit you while you still have basekit bt. So you could use something more useful like adrealine.
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Dead Hard will still be played. Especially by people who enjoy Mettle of Memes or who run a build with a bit focus on unhooking.
I can totally see Dead Hard getting run with "We'll make it" and "Borrow Time". However I agree that triggering it via protection hit as Pulsar suggested would be a better choice and more thematic with David.
Honestly my best "anti-tunnel" build was Off the Record and Sprint Burst. Plain and simple.
You get off the hook, you run to a save loop. If the Killer follows you, let them eat Off the Record. Even with the one extra hit it still gives you and aura-reading block and 0 noise from your injury which lets you mind game far better. I had enough Killers fall for this simple combo and it takes less skill then hitting e at the right time.
Camping is killed if one of your mates had a heart and enjoys a bit of Reassurance. The punishment for a Killer trying to camp while you just reassure is pretty good. Sure you maybe need to leave the one person behind but 3 escapes is very easy here especially if you maybe go for an exchange once. Been there, done that, works.
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I have used that combo too. Sb pretty much is requirement with otr. I can see it being good antitunneling combo for not experienced survivors or not great loopers. But still if killer hard tunnels/camp and hit you right after your unhooked he counters both of them.
With ds and dh there is no easy counter but they do take more skill. But you can usually make it to safe loop with basekit bt already. The thing with ds is you can play very greedy it does not matter if you go down or they don't even get you. After ds is gone with dh you can still be greedy and after you're used that then you can play more safely but at that point you're probably looped the killer almost 2 minutes. Meaning 3 gens could be done in that time. Adrealine then will give you speed boost quite often if you use that as well.
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It's gonna be as alive as nerfed PR.
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-"AND DH users will fight over unhooks."- This was something I was thinking as well and haven't quite landed on where I think it will all pan out. The healing changes are likely going to tilt survs to bring more gen rush which will make them more reliant on exhaustion perks due to being injured. Dead Hard is the appealing exhaustion perk to take if you plan to stay injured. So, will less people run DH, even though it's more appealing, because fighting for unhooks is ... not going to go well? Or will DH usage stay the same with 2 ish people trailing every trace/racing to every hook in order to get DH before someone else? Either way, I'm glad RE4 has come out and maybe I can skip this chapter of balancing....
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Yeah, you are quit right here. My combination is pretty much the easy way (which is why I recommend quit often).
I still hope that they revert the changes to DS a bit and make it 5 seconds again. With the condition to be deactivated during the endgame and if you touch anything useful the perk had been nerfed to a reasonable level. Reducing it to 3 seconds was just a bit overkill and even when I tried to run it with Parental Guidance or Tenacity (to get to a better spot) it never quit got the results a 5 second stun would have yielded.
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I am not crazy about the Dead Hard on Protection Hit. All that does is encourage more of the playstyle that Dead Hard users do, which is try to harass the killer. This will turn Dead Hard users into annoying fruit flies that just hang out around chased people, hoping the Killer tries to hit them so they can get their perk charged.
Yeah. That's what I want in Solo Queue. Me getting chased by the Killer and a teammate that, instead of doing gens, is trying to get the Killer to hit him to power his perk.
Nice try, IHOP.
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-"The main strength of DH was its versatility, adding a Deliverance's requirement will definitely hurt it a lot."
That's entirely the point in how they are nerfing it. The devs basically had a choice and could have said - ok DH is once per game. That was too much apparently so they made it have the deliverance requirement.
What is this going to do to the perk? It means if you want to use DH you have no exhaustion in the first chase which will make you massively weaker. It means you might never get a chance to be the unhooker so you never get to "earn" your DH. If you are the first one hooked and you get tunneled then you will never get your DH.
How will this affect the game? No more will killers hesitate to swing. It means no more long chases for the first chase. It means a lot less wasted time in chase overall. It means more pallets used sooner - making everyone slightly weaker at looping.
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"It means if you want to use DH you have no exhaustion in the first chase which will make you massively weaker"
i would be absolutely shock if someone run DH without another exhaustion perk. You can still have a strong first chase with another exhaustion perk and break out DH when u obtain it later o.
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The thing is, I don't see a lot of other nerf options that don't make it do something completely different. If it activates after being unhooked, it's just a worse Off the Record. If it activates on protection hits, it's just a better Mettle of Man (And stacks with it, which could easily create a pretty stupid playstyle). If it only works once per trial, it's too weak to see play (Which wouldn't really bother me, but ehh). If it only activates on special attacks or basic attacks, then it unduly punishes a lot of mid- to low-tier Killers.
Use another Exhaustion perk? Like what? Most Exhaustion perks can't just be held onto forever, they activate off pretty common actions in a chase. And then you can't use DH.
Post edited by Monlyth on0
