Mobility wins games
Wesker, Blight, Nurse, they all have a common theme; win the game easy mode. Hillbilly doesn't count with all the nerfs he's gotten. Meanwhile killers that have no mobility in their kit will suffer and lose more than mobility killers. 3 gens will blow up in your face. Nemesis, trapper, any m1 killer with no mobility will crumble even killers with teleportation like Sadako, Freddy or Dredge.
So, why don't you give mobility to the weaker killers? Make nemesis run, give Trapper bonus speed when picking up/setting up traps, whatever.
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Just give them more base movement speed and call it a day.
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wouldnt really do much
people love to say that 110% killers have such bad mobility compared to 115%, when over a 100m distance the difference between them is roughly 1 second
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I agree with you on that. What do you propose?
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They need to rework bad killers and change them into something like wesker, where there is some sort of map pressure or mobility built into their kit.
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Its not about mobility alone. Its about chase power. And its even more important than mobility. Like you see with the billy example. Or Wraith.
And the easier way to fix mobility is to make maps smaller.
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I mean, this is mobility in the chase. Map traversal alone isn't going to make a killer S-tier. Look at Sadako, Dredge, Demo, etc.
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For all killers to have one of 4 things. Map mobility, presence, slowdown, or lethality.
All strong killers have a mixture of these, mainly mobility and something else. If you look at Nurse, Blight and Spirit for example, they have a mixture of lethality and mobility. While killers like Plague, Artist and Pyramid Head are more towards precense and lethality. Wesker to me is the perfect killer who has a good balance between the 4. He doesnt excel at anything but he also doesnt lack at anything either.
You'll come to find that the majority of cases of killers who specialize mainly in one area, they tend to be weaker. Just for a few examples, Pig only really has slowdown, Clown has lethality, Sadako has mobility. Thing is they dont really have much else, and theres not a blanket change that benefits all of them. Add portals throughout the map for better mobility might help a killer like Clown or Pig a lot, but wont do much for Sadako. Increase base movement speed to increase lethality, which will make Pig and Sadako happy, but barely make a difference for Clown.
What needs to be done is a review to each killer on a case by case basis by adding extra strength(s).
This can be done by just a few number changes, but it could also be done in more creative ways. (Which btw Im caving in, Ill do more rework posts since they were fun to do)
For example I wrote a Billy rework roughly a year ago, Billy has 2 strengths but compared to other killers hes lacking just a little bit. So I decided to go into this post with the main goal of making him more accessible but also improve his main strengths. Its not like these changes are anything too crazy either. If youre interested, you can give it a read:
Another thing I think should be done is every killer should have different map pools. No matter what improvements you do to a killer like Trickster, he'll always be worst on a map like Lerys than on Autohaven. Each killer having their own map pool would fix this issue and make a killers performance more consistent and enjoyable. No more worrying about playing Billy and worrying about getting RPD or Lerys
Thank you for coming to my TedTalk
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You forgot to mention that these killers also have the highest skill ceiling AND the steepest learning curve. It is not “easy mode”.
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I've always been surprised that Nemesis did't have a sprint ability somewhere in his kit. Maybe give him a blight charge token every time he gets a hook. I mean, it's Nemesis! He runs!
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honestly i dont even think any killer basekit changes need to come. It can be as simple as reworking monitor and abuse to give haste outside of chases as opposed to additional fov
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There are 5 killer attributes.
- Movement speed - either by teleport or by chase power (not looking at 110 vs 115)
- Anti loop strength - some killers have basically none and Nurse on the other end of the spectrum is "complete shutdown"
- Lethality in chase - is a function of the first two properties. Look at Nemesis for example - he has anti loop "if the survivors are blue". He has no movement power. Therefore his chase lethality is actually quite low. But he's miles ahead of Pig Because Nemesis can instantly break pallets.
- 4v1 potential - this is a measure of how well you can pressure multiple survivors. Pig and Doctor have this to a limited degree because you are forced to do "something else" as a side objective. Pinhead and Nemesis have this to a medium degree as there is a strong game element to hinder you. Nurse and Blight also have this ability but not in the way that you might think. Their chase powers are so good that they can already be in chase #2 with the first survivor hooked before many other killers would still be stuck on chase #1.
- Detection - this is the attribute that doesn't matter. Unfortunately it's doctor's "main thing" and as a result he is a very poor archetype. If you are an experienced killer you have good game sense and you know where people are. You don't need a "detection" power but you might bring one perk for that role to assist you during the game. One thing about this category is that movement powers also give you increased detection. How so? Well once upon a time when I bothered to play Billy from 2016-2019 it was very easy to startle people with Billy using a chainsaw sprint. If you suddenly appear 4m away from someone on a generator their only choice is to start running. Once again we have Nurse and Blight who also have this attribute.
Billy has "ok movement" thanks to the overheat. Also overall his mobility was far superior in 2016-2019 because maps were designed in a way where he could almost always zoom from point A to point B without worrying about hitting a wall - oops that's gone. He has basically no antiloop either thanks to the 2 most importnat addons getting nerfed. He has potentially strong chase lethality but in reality he doesn't because loops are safe in 2023 in a way they were not in previous versions of the game. You're almost crazy for not using Bam with him. Billy doesn't get fast downs so therefore he doesn't get 4v1 anymore. As mentioned - depending on map he might be able to detect people but that stupid "yell" before a sprint gives him away.
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It's not a deal breaker for a killer to lack mobility. Plague is one of the best designed killers in the game to me. She's not mobile, but she's insanely lethal if you're good at her. You can destroy a team with two Corrupt pools unless RNG completely screws you. She has a power spike that changes games. Trickster is another good example. I snowball games with Main Event a lot. He has laughably bad mobility, but he has a clear power spike.
Contrast that with Trapper or Pig where the power spike is completely dependent on mistakes or RNG. Or Doctor where there's no power spike whatsoever, just a bad killer. And Clown, I mean...he's good at tunneling I guess? Most of the issues with the less mobile killers don't boil down to a lack of mobility in and of itself. It's their lack of a reliable power spike to make up for the lack of mobility.
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they are reworking survivors. they will not give every killer mobility, instead they'll reduce survivor mobility by eliminating their ability to heal. After all, you do not need mobility in-chase to counter shift-w if everyone is instant down the entire game.
I think defining fact of the stronger killer is their ability to degrade health-states and their ability to degrade pallets without drawback.
If you look at 3 top-tier killers in the game which in my opinion are Blight, Nurse and Wesker. they degrade health-states really well and can counter pallets. Looking at obvious ones. Nurse degrades pallets by blinking through them and when she hits a survivor. A survivor gains distance through health-state but she can gap-close that distance in like 5-6 seconds as her 2 blinks grant a collective 30 meter gap-closing.
Blight pallet play is a lot weaker. He can technically win-pallets if you practice doing Lilith Omen Hug tech tricks with blight though I think that vast majority of blight's are not as dedicate to practice that. The way blight can counter pallet is by breaking the pallet and when you break a pallet, pallet breaking is so slow that the survivor is designed to get to next loop whenever you break a pallet. Blight fundamentally ignores this rule because he has very low wind-up to begin his lethal rush and he can gap-close all distance from pallet breaks such that he can hit people between loops. that is how he counters pallets. His C33 add-on exggerates this strength even more though some people want it nerfed.
Obviously blight also counter health-states. other killers when they a hit a survivor, they suffer lengthy cooldown to wiping their weapon and survivor gains speed boost. Once again this wastes killer time. Just like distance from pallet breaks, his speed allows him to instant gap-close health-state loss. His add-on Alchemist ring further exaggerates this by refunding blight tokens when hitting a survivor. Just like c33, People want this add-on nerfed.
Wesker almost same as blight. wesker is weaker at dropped pallets then blight is but just like blight, he can gap-close distance of pallet breaks using his two virulent bounds and this logic also applies to health-states.
Its not raw mobility like Sadako, Billy, Demo etc. that hurt killers. Its their in-chase mobility towards making distance that survivor creates often through forced interaction that hurts other killers. I think if health-states had more balanced distance gain and pallet design was not instant-break oriented. those other killers would be in a far better spot.
I think most of those attributes are kinda irrelevant. instant down is band aid to imbalance health-states. 115% m/s in current safe pallet design is barely relevant. The distance gain in catch-up on pallets can be calculated and outskill by survivors though most survivor are not good at looping. 4vs1 is another band aid to pre-shift w from gens and hold-w in generator. Like instead of having an ability that actively counter force time waste, you let generator defence/slowdown mechanic account for time-waste instead of having an active ability that allows you to outplay the survivor. Most survivor do not actively hide from the killer. that is why detection is not needed. The killers are weak in chase. Just see release skull merchant for why m1 killers are not good at chasing and resort to 3 gen tactics. All that information means nothing if you cannot capitalize on it.
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Funnily enough (or "hot take", pick whichever you prefer), those are probably my favourite killers to face. Mobility promotes progressing the game for both sides, unlike powers like Skull Merchant, Bubba, Hag or the like, whose powers are just "Stand still for a long time and reap the rewards" or "Spend 6 hours plaguing the map with stuff so survivors can't move".
Also, mobility killers tend to have some mid-chase interaction that makes it interesting thinking about your own movement pattern as a puzzle, which can be rewarding for the chased player if they read them correctly. Like making Wesker vault a window by accident, Nurse blinking through floors or cutting blinks too short or too long when failing predictions, Blight pinballing away from you if you make an unexpected turn...
I only really dislike it when they use their powers to tunnel people out or slug people to death, but when they play legit, even if they're miles better than you, it feels like they earned their hit and you just... well, misplayed.
It is for this very reason I worry about buffs to other killers, because the last thing I want is seeing them more often. Particularly the "Defender" types. And Clown. Because all Clown players are terrible, terrible human beings, no exceptions.
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This post gives me an aneurysm. Of course mobility wins games. That’s why all killers except nurse are base kit faster than survivors.
if your target can’t outrun you then how are they to get away?
the reason for variances in mobility is because not every killer is entirely mobility dependent.
trap killers don’t need to be mobile.
stealth killers don’t need to be mobile.
only chasers need to be exceptionally mobile.
i’m not interested in having dbd turn into tag. If i wanted that i’d play roblox.
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Simple solutions tend to be the best. Until a better solution can be made, how about a Devour Hope's styled speed boost for 10s if you leave the hook within 15s? Just have it end early if you use power, get within (24m or 32m) of hook, or enter chase. That way normal killers can be afforded a bit of mobility, but it won't help Blight boost across the map even quicker. Since it ends on starting chase, it won't kill survivors through cheese, just give map mobility to those who need it most.
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"It's not a deal breaker for a killer to lack mobility. Plague is one of the best designed killers in the game to me."
Plague is getting nerfed by proxy with healing being gutted. Also one of the best survivor tricks in the game is shift+w. Nurse, Blight, and Wesker are some of the best "chasers" because you can't shift+W against them (not to mention that they all have good to amazing anti loop).
Most survivors dont cleanse vs Plague so if you are bringing an apple every game then that severely limits your addon choices. It's "super fun" to get your power once per game - yay (please note the sarcasm).
"Trickster is another good example. He has laughably bad mobility, but he has a clear power spike."
Trickster is super dependent on map design. He sucks on high wall maps.
Also just to be clear - are you saying you think you could do better with Plague/Trickster than a really good Blight or Nurse? No one is going to believe you if you say you could because Nurse/Blight are the best killers in the game as a result of their mobility.
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Some killers aren't desgines to have mobility. For example Trapper, Hag, Doctor, Nemesis, Pig and Deatslinger. Giving these killers more mobility will not fix the main issues. Instead this would create new issues. Mobility is not the kind of fix you might think. There are very good killers in this game that don't have mobility like Plague, Pyramid Head and Artist.
I think most weaker killers need indivudual buffs in their powers and chases as well as some reworks (Freddy and Myers).
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Some killers just aren't designed well. Making clown or wraith A tier for example would be an immense challenge without making them beyond unfair to play against. I guess I should specify some killers are designed well but not built to play against good survivors, even piloted by a good killer. Wraith does exactly what he's intended to do and doesn't feel bad to play against but will never be good without massive complaints.
I agree mobility on it's own doesn't really mean much.
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I'm not in any way saying killers like Plague and Trickster are better than Nurse or Blight. Just saying other killers are viable too.
It's tough to pull off a no-cleanse against a good Plague. Always bring an extra fountain add-on and a chase perk or two. It only works if RNG completely screws you on fountains or you struggle to get M1 downs on a map like Cowshed or Borgo.
And yeah, Trickster has his limitations. Have to build around that. I prefer Coup De Grace on him. You can save stacks by using his knives to get downs. Then when you have a problematic tile with high walls, use the Coup De Grace stacks for hits. Perks like Awakened Awareness and Nowhere to Hide are also good because he's most lethal when someone is caught out of position. A huge mistake players make on Trickster is loading up on all the slowdown in the world and then they proceed to generate no pressure to capitalize on it.
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Please do not just slap mobility onto everything. Plenty of Killers can play an be fun to play against without mobility.
Think about Huntress, Plague, Oni or Pyramide Head.
Huntress has 0 mobility, she even moves at a slower pace. However she is one of the top Killers because of her long range shots and quick downs while still having descent counterplay. I think there are few people who really think that Huntress needs a big change or who can honestly say she is a badly designed Killer. Hell, I dislike playing against her and I am fully aware that this is just my personal dislike and no issue with her.
Pyramide Head is quit similar to Huntress. His ability to ignore walls gives him a great deal of power, however you have clear counterplay to him. His torment can send you to the other side of the map and bypass all "after unhook" perks. Giving that guy mobility would be a huge overkill in my opinion.
Plague also has no mobility but she brings her own element to the game. She forces survivors to make a decision and can vary in power level depending on her mode. Same goes for Oni.
So no, Killers do not need more mobility. They need a clear vision how they are supposed to win and what survivors are supposed to do against them (and no, shift + w or predropping everything is not that).
Take Oni as an example. His power is insane once you get it an it combines mobility and lethality to the extreme. Yet he has clear counterplay: Quick flicks around corners and windows. On certain tiles you can run an Oni like forever. Not to mention Onis power discourages him from tunneling because you get your power for hitting a healthy survivor and you can down healthy survivors just as fast. Clear vision and execution here.
Ghostface also. 0 mobility, yet a very fun Killer to play or to play against. Stalking is almost a minigame "finding Ghostface", yet when you have an idea where he is you can evade him with ease also the reward for revealing him is pretty good for a survivor.
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These killers aren't strong because they have mobility. Wesker and Nurse barely move faster than a 115% when using their powers. Put Nurse to traverse Mother's Dwelling and you'll see she saves like 3-4 seconds compared to no mobility killers. These killers are strong because they have strong chase power. That's exactly why Hillbilly sucks, mobility does nothing if he can't down survivors fast enough. Artist and Huntress have no mobility yet their chase powers alone make them High A tier killers.
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Agreed. It feels like theres almost no point to play as a killer that is slow paced.
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-"I'm not in any way saying killers like Plague and Trickster are better than Nurse or Blight. Just saying other killers are viable too."
I agree with this statement until we include "efficient play" by very strong players in a SWF. And then it's Blight/Nurse or gtfo.
-"yeah, Trickster has his limitations."
But also has 4 knives into a melee attack = down. In so many ways Trickster is kinda like LF because his power in the open is like a chainsaw and he is one of the best campers.
That's why I said unironically that every killer with no movement power should be kicked up to 120% speed base kit. Yes that would "break" many of the safe loops in the game - that's the point.
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Dead dawg Saloon as a perfect sample.
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give killers a nether portal
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Agreed. Smaller maps can help improve chase power and make matches more engaging at the same time.
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Mobility isn't everything, but it's the easiest to grasp.
Pig doesn't have a lot of mobility, but her RBTs give her a lot of time for more/longer chases, her Crouch can let her get in an early hit, and if a Survivor running around with an RBT hasn't healed and stumbles across a patrolling crouched pig, it can give her an easy down.
However, she does struggle with her Power requiring a down in the first place, which isn't helped by the fact that all Survivor chase resources spawn at the start. Though this is more of an issue with overall Pallet design that hasn't been addressed.
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