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Healing Changes
I think it would be alot healthier if BHVR kept altruistic healing at 16 charges but made self healing 24 charges, as this would fix the problem with people healing especially quickly by themselves while not making it excrutiatingly long when healing others.
Also, Self Care could probably get buffed to 50% again, maybe even 60-75% as it would still be double the time as finding someone else at 75% (32 seconds).
Comments
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Agreed. They're kind of failing to anticipate how strong anti-heal perks are going to be at 24 second base healing. Sloppy will be way too strong, and Thana+Dying Light already makes the pacing feel awful on 90 second gens. We're going to reach a point where every survivor action feels like it takes an excruciatingly long time.
24 second self heals are fine. The CoH and medkit changes are fine. But altruistic healing didn't need to get slower. That was not the issue. Games are already lasting way too long on average IMO. We definitely don't need a return of the hit and run playstyle.
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Self care already got nerfed with a slower healing speed. This patch seems to be addressing what survivors have asked for since DBD launched : a second objective to make the game interesting.
When you are full health against most killers you do not feel threatened because maps are pretty safe and you have to be attacked twice. Since heals are the new second objective designed to "waste time" for survivors there should be no difference in the heal changes. We already have perks like Autodidact and We'll make it that massively speed up healing other people.
If you want to heal other people faster then bring those perks.
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Killers wanted survivors to have a second objective. And oddly, this update is going to minimize the one survivors had (totems). Healing isn’t an objective; survival is. And what you’ll see are more survivors pushing gens.
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Agreed, but in exchange, PR, COB, and OC need less hefty nerfs.
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I'd probably not want COB and OC to be able to reach above 200% regression together, so likely 150% each.
Also, Pain Res could have just gotten a change that makes it so it only activates if the survivor you hook is a different survivor from the last
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They simply shouldn't be able to stack at all, that's the whole problem. They're different perks, but they both effectively do the same thing, which is doubled up when used together. This makes it impossible to balance them independently.
Giving Overcharge a regression boost in 6.1 was the whole problem. They should have stuck to it being the 'surprise skill check' perk, but increased it's effectiveness, giving it a delayed audio notification like Lullaby, or an even small skill check zone, or a typical skill check with a 'good' and 'great' zone, where the 'good' acts as a missed skill check. Or maybe hitting the skill check still regresses the gen by 10%, while failing it gives the notification and regresses by 15%.
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While i agree i do want to see how it plays out as it is first.
People really need to look at this changes together and not in vaccuum
One side is complaining that healing is going to be a huge timesink
The other complains that all regression perks are nerfed and survivors will just genrush
What i invision is survivors being more vulnerable overall but that the killer needs to score hits and win chases to be able to slow the game down.
A fast paced game where a match at any point swing in the others favor.
This sounds as a huge improvement to killers being able to slow down gens without actually interacting with the survivors and survivors being able to undo the killers successes in a no time at all
Shifting the ability to slow gens down from perk power to your in game power to score hits seems like a great change to me
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Pushing gens is fine. But what you will see is people either doing gens or healing. The meta will be slugging and camping with no gen defense.
If someone is on stage 2 and everyone is hurt - who makes the save?
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The problem is people healing especially quickly, regardless of the method used. Altruistic healing speeds are currently a problem, especially if survivors use healing speed perks. SWFs can easily coordinate altruistic healing with their voice comms, and reverting the altruistic healing speed nerf will allow SWFs to just bypass the healing nerfs.
Yes, the point is that all the healing times should be long enough that they feel impactful for both sides. It's supposed to be inconvenient for survivors when someone gets injured. If healing speeds are so quick that survivors are cool with it, then they are way too fast for killers to believe that injuries matter.
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Altruistic heals being nerfed is because of the harsh nerfs to the main regression perks. If they revert the healing nerfs, they will also have to revert, or at least ease up on the nerfs of the slowdown perks, which I doubt they'll do.
The problem with anti-healing perks is a seperate issue. Mangled will 100% need to be nerfed to 10% for example, and perks like Pentimento and Coulrophobia will also need to be nerfed.
I don't think Thana will need a nerf however. Only 1 survivor has to be healed for it to have very low values.
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If there's an altruistic heal happening, that's at least half of the team not on a generator for 16-24 seconds, which is the trade-off. It's a complex situation but looking at it in the context of "the team has to sacrifice the main objective to make this heal happen" really helps, since in the current state of healing it really doesn't seem necessary to heal your teammates, and to be completely honest a nerf to altruism is the last thing the Survivor side needs right now, especially with SoloQ only just getting its much needed buffs.
I think nerfing altruistic healing to 20s and seeing how that pans out for the meta is probably the best call to make. This patch as a whole really feels like BHVR overnerfed a lot of things for no reason. SHPR and CoH did need to be toned down a little but they definitely went a bit far I think lol
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It's not a complex situation. The goal is for injuries to feel like they matter. If altruistic healing is 20 seconds basekit, then all it takes is botany knowledge to make the new altruistic healing speeds EVEN FASTER than the current altruistic healing speeds are at basekit. And botany knowledge has infinite uses.
We all have to remember that survivors have healing speed perks, and the healing speeds need to be balanced, in consideration of the fact that survivors might equip more healing speed perks in the future.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on1 -
It's interesting no one even takes into consideration the recent uprising of 3 genning since the knight and skull merchant has came out. This healing nerf is a huge buff for 3 genning and arguably the most unfun and tedious 'strat' for killers to do. Skull Merchant was even changed for this very reason, so now they're unhappy with it so survivors are getting punished for it?
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Conveniently ignoring the gutted regression perks that made 3-genning a strong strategy.
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I agree. Hell, I'd even say make medkits take 32 seconds base. That's the same time spent by two survivors combined, and you can do it without finding a mate first.
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See, this is exactly the problem I'm describing. "Perks make healing faster therefore healing nerf is fine" is a blatant whataboutism, IMO. If we take the Botany Knowledge slippery slope, we can just end up saying stuff like "Oh, well For the People allows you to insta-heal a teammate, so altruistic healing should be nerfed harder". Furthermore, you could apply this logic to literally everything either side can do.
Perks, add-ons, and items should not be factored in when considering basekit nerfs. This kind of mentality resulted in perfectly fine perks like Awakened Awareness getting nerfed specifically because of the way Nurse could utilize them. The perks can be balanced individually around the basekit changes, so there is literally no need to bring them up here.
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This is supposed to encourage killers to spread pressure and eventually start going into chases more, as it forces people to either find someone for heals repeatedly or risk doing gens while vulnerable.
Ya know how people have complained that they "NEED" to camp 3 gens to stand a chance? Those are the kind of people that are going to stop doing it.
And let's not forget the nerfs to killer perks that encouraged 3 gen strategies that are happening in the same update.
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I disagree.
healing ticks should be kept at 16 instead of 24 to avoid decreasing the viability of healing perks for SoloQ, as since the hemorrhagic system update, compensation has never been made on non-meta perks that died at a good time, like solidarity and resurgence.
And why punish SoloQ? You want to differentiate altruistic/cooperative healing and keep the 24 charges for self-heal, which without any corrections, will impact in more than 60s using self-care, not worth using even stacking with other perks, such as botany , hyperfocus, etc (3 perks slots for nothing)
just remove the self-heal bonus from the addons and items, but don't nerf the entire survivors base kit from 16 to 24 ticks which will affect SoloQ even more, decreasing perk diversity.
taking 16 seconds to heal on a single-use item (or a maximum of 2, with addon tweaks/perks), shouldn't be a problem (and remove stack with coh)
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Why punish Solo que? They're ######### whether this change happens or not. I'd rather heal over a longer period of time than deal with the killer setting up a 3 gen while I have rock for brains teammates.
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