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DISCUSSION REGUARDING MID CHAPTER UPDATE
Hello everyone, once again I'm asking for your opinions reguarding the last mid chapter update, involving the shift in the healing meta and the change of the meta perks in general.
Please don't be rude to others in the comments, I just want to make a space to kinda hear your thoughts, plus I'm looking forward to new possible fun builds to try once the update goes live.
Thank you kindly for your dearest partecipation. <3
Comments
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Killers will go from gen slowdown to heal slowdown.
Survivors will either use heal speed perks to fight the heal slowdown meta or they will just do gens while injured with resilience.
12 -
Glad dh and coh got nerfed into the ground. Pain-res getting gutted was a bit overkill but I don't use the perk anyways so I could care less. Overcharge and Call of brine were nerfed too hard but they kind of needed to be nerfed for the gen kick meta to disappear. The gearhead buff is cool, should've been buffed more but it's a fair bit better now. That one survivor perk got buffed, don't remember the name of it but the buff was good. Glad lightburn was removed, outdated mechanic that didn't need to exist in the game anymore. Couple of random killer changes too like the buffing of some addon's, they don't matter much. Now you can remove hag's traps without a flashlight, idk how to feel about it, I don't play hag at all so I don't have the experience necessary to comment on whether the change is a good one or not.
I don't care to comment on the healing changes, I'll wait for the ptb for that. Billy getting nerfed again is ridiculous and doesn't need to happen, they give him a slight basekit buff but a huge nerf to his 2 only good add-ons. I've ranted and raved about the nerf over, and over again, so I'll spare you the complaining and shorten it down. Stupid change, hope they go back on it. I don't understand why the devs hate billy so much.
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While I don't necessarily agree with the tactic of running four slowdown perks, which is miserable to go against in Solo Queue, I am now worried what defense killers are going to have against highly skilled players slamming gens and leaving. There is almost no good gen defense perks left. I guess we have to settle for Jolt?
3 -
The perk nerfs are more or less fine. Though, if we're going to nerf perks this bad, wouldn't it be better to rework them instead? We don't need any more useless perks.
The healing changes are probably a bit overtuned. I'm not sure altruistic healing nerfs are a good idea but here we are.
The map reworks are going to be horrible. Everytime they touch an unbalanced map they somehow manage to make it even worse. Just look at what they did with Red Forest.
The killer changes are mostly negligable. Besides the Pig buff, which is nice and the Hillbilly nerf. This is the worst part of this whole patch, if you think about it. Because it once again shows how out of touch the devs are. They have no idea what they're doing. Absolutely none. Looking at numbers will not give you an idea of the actual situation. That is how money laundering works as well. Someone one the outside will look at the numbers and think "Well, this is fine.", while people on the inside will know exactly what's going on. There is 0 reason to nerf a killer that is already in shambles. Billy feels awful to play (that's why you don't see many Billys to begin with), is not all that strong and overall suffers from more things than any other killer. He doesn't have one or two problems but a million.
7 -
Just wait few hours and then we can talk about it (PTB soon).
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Imo it has the potential to be the best update DbD has ever got.
Outside of the Billy nerf, that one is stupid
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My only request is they roll back the base speed for healing when healing others. The self nerf is fine.
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Deep wounds is a seperate mechanic, pretty positive it won't increase the time it takes to mend.
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That nerf is kind of needed when considering the large nerfs to the main regression perks. The entire idea is to give killers more slowdown by playing well and injuring a lot of survivors, and less by simply equipping perks and kicking gens.
I think it's a very good change, and doubt they will revert it, because of the slowdown perks also getting nerfed. I can see it going down to 20 seconds however, if too many people feel that 24 seconds is overkill.
2 -
I get that part, I just think there should be more incentive to heal a teammate and less selfish actions like Self-Care.
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I would rather see how it goes the way it is.
Making the healing of others 16 seconds means we are back to a single perk being enough to negate the killers hits in less then 10 seconds.
If it's too much now then sure that's a good step to take but i don't think it will be needed
2 -
I don’t think we should move the healing to 20 seconds, just because it’s a popular opinion. Games have 4 survivors to every 1 killer, and it’s so easy for survivor opinions to become the majority.
Game balance decisions should be made depending on what is best for the game, and not just because a suggestion is popular.
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My thoughts:
The trade-off of reducing gen slowdown and nerfing healing will probably work out as intended by the devs in the middle/upper ranges of player skill.
The top survivors will just ignore healing and bang out gens and if some killers who were used to rely a lot on gen regression will have to go down a bit in MMR.
In the bottom range, where I got dumped into by MMR, survivors will be completely thrown under the wheel, that's why I'm personally negative about this update despite saying it will probably work. My teammates are mostly utterly unwilling to do anything while injured and killers finish chases insanely fast. Already now it's the case that before I can fully heal someone I got off the hook that the next survivor is on hook and the 4th in a chase, about to go down, and the killers don't even have/run the massive gen regression perks that are now being nerfed to win big. In my last bunch of games I played the gates were powered in only 15% of the matches, which is not satisfying at all, so I'll never play solo again after this patch.
In short, in the games I get thrown into, it's not a trade-off but a huge survivor nerf because they nerf survivors in a core gameplay element (healing) but killers only in an optional element (certain class of perks). E.g. when I'm playing killer I never used any of the meta regression perks and always was satisfied with the outcome, so my killer gameplay would not be affected at all by the patch but the survivors I meet are heavily nerfed.
Worst thing about this patch for me personally is the COH change. Since MMR is active I need unlimited self-heals in finite time (after playing for years without any self-healing) because sad as it is, I really can't count on my teammates to hit skillchecks. And it happens very quickly that two of them are dead and if I can't get the third off the hook because I'm injured and can't heal myself because there's nobody else there anymore, I'm being punished by emblem loss and feel like a rat.
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People are overreacting to the healing nerf without realizing it’s being offset by all the gen regression perks being killed. They’re just shifting the slow down from perks to healing. This is a good change because it makes gen regression perks less required and instead makes the slow down base kit if you’re good at pressuring the survivors and rewards tunneling killers much, much less. So while each change may seem extreme isolated, they will be good together. I am worried good survivors will just ignore healing and go full gen rush though. I feel like there needed to be some small incentive to make the healing more required like a hypothetical “10% slower gens while injured” or something. We’ll test it out though.
One of the best mid chapters we’ve ever had and a step in the right direction. I hope they don’t cave and start backtracking on the changes coming to live.
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I think there will still be enough incentive even with these healing nerfs to be honest. Especially because medkits will have their amount of uses be more limited.
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Well sure, and I am sure BHVR is aware of the ratio between survivor and killer players. But if the feedback becomes too overwhelmingly negative regarding the healing nerf, then I do think it would be smart to decrease the healing to 20 seconds.
We'll see how it will be in the ptb later this day, but I as well could very well imagine 24 seconds being overkill. I still love the direction that BHVR is going with this game however.
1 -
The devs update is kinda mixed bag for me. There are many good things, bad things and things I do not care about.
First the good things:
- Nerfig Med-Kits is pretty nice, those were very strong and made it pretty hard to get value out of certain Killers. Not to mention that the combination of Cycle + Metkits killed all hit-and-run Killers like Wraith.
- Reworking some Auto Heaven maps is a good choice. I hate those maps as Ghostface and I hate those maps against Huntress. Making them more balanced is a nice idea and I hope it works.
- Visual Terror Radius is also a very good thing and I very much hope that this will help a lot of people.
However there are many bad things:
- Nerfing altruistic healing is bad in my opinion. Altruistic Healing was never an issue for me as Killer and I very much capitalized on it when survivor did that. Be it when I used Nurses Call on Pyramide Head or Ghostface or just the fact that survivors where not doing generators when they healed. I strongly hope that the Devs thing about this again and do not nerf altrusitic healing that much (18 seconds would be okay).
- Nerfing the Hillbilly without compensation is just a kick in the face for poor Billy players. This change goes into a very wrong direction. Billy has two things that make him unique: That he can curve and that he can have map mobility via his chainsaw. Both will get killed by the implied changes and even more by nerfing his engravings. Nobody ever complained about Hillbilly engravings. People enjoyed facing curve-Billy.
- Killing Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain the wrong way is just bad. Please consider to restock the stacks one every survivor had been hooked once! This would mean a strong incentive for Killers to share hooks equally and not tunnel or camp.
Overall trading off gen-slowdown for more slowdown via injuries is a fine idea and I like it. It can feel pretty frustrating to have a generator regress from 80% down to 0% because Blight stacked Call of Brine and Overcharge. However this is pretty backwards in my opinion. Just like survivors are not able to stack exhaustion perks Killers should not be able to stack regression. As long as you allow stacked regression you will run into the same trouble over and over again.
Still a good trade off.
However I also must compliment them for being daring. Too often they change too little and this hurts us because without mistakes and improvement takes to long and stagnation takes hold. Daring changes like these are very much appreciated.
I would also like to encourage every Killer and Survivor player to go onto the PTB and try their best. Do not play Clown, bring your A-Game and show how you will abuse the new perks and changes in the upcoming months. The earlier we can give the devs feedback on the changes with significant implication then better.
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no mither/resilience/boon exponential/boil over
a really good build soon on 2 story buildings specificly
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they are his parents
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jolt/surveillance/furtive/devour hope
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That's exactly the problem though. If the majority of voices are survivors that don't want to be nerfed, then the overwhelming opinion would be to revert survivor nerfs.
Compare this to killers, where the amount of feedback regarding the regression perk changes is super low, even though BHVR is literally destroying an entire genre of game slowdown. It's impossible for killers to get an overwhelming opinion, because they just don't have the numbers to compete when survivors are also complaining about things. The result is that if we go by popular opinion, killers would always lose, and survivors would always win.
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.............
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Underrated comment. Sums the situaation up in a very good and measured manner.
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pretty good update. pain res nerf was a bit much, and heal changes are a little overkill but i bet theyll be tweaked before the live release, as will the heal slowdown statuses to be less oppressive.
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Auto buy blood web is probably the best part of the update.
That said, most of the update is decent though we think they went to far with pain res and the overall healing nerf.
Pros:
- Auto buy web
- Visual heartbeat
- Nerf to camp-the-3-gen strategy
- Reworked dh
- Reworked medkits
- Various small buffs to add ons
- Buff to hag (and others but...)
Cons:
- Pain res hard nerf
- Overall nerf to healing
- Buff to overzealous (don't want MORE progression)
- Lightburn gone. Another past trick is gone.
- Pinky finger nerf (tiny but there)
Neutral/needs to be seen
- Gearhead buff
- Map reworks (we'll see if they're better or worse)
- Hillbilly
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I suspect we are going to see more thanataphobia to counter that though. If healing is nerfed, and spreading pressure being buffed, thana is going to be buffed. This is going to force the survivors to stop and heal at least sometimes which should significantly slow the game down.
You don't need gen regression, or defense, if you have survivors doing something that isn't generators.
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im being genuine it works really well
1 -
Dead Hard nerf, great. Circle of Healing nerf, great. Medkit nerf, great. Healing nerf, great.
Pain Resonance nerf? Questionable.
Hillbilly nerf? Bad.
Auto-Bloodweb, great. Visual TR, neat.
Lightburn removed, good. Gearhead buff, still kinda weak. Overzealous buff, fine.
5 -
It's funny they're going to buff Nurse (One of the broken killers) and get rid of lightburn. I'm going to cry every survivor game now because you're probably going to face a Nurse or Spirit every game (Not including new killer releases). You build Nurse with Sloppy and anti-healing you win basically. (This photo was created by Bing's AI it's supposed to be Nurse with an "I Win" sign).
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Technically they are nurfing Billy because they are nerfing Billy mains best add-on.
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Who the hell actually used Lightburn against Nurse? Most players don't even know that was a feature, and flashlighting a Nurse was borderline suicidal anyway because the window was so small and it usually meant you were within Blinking distance.
Also Sloppy Butcher doesn't work with Nurse's Blink attacks.
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The pro/veterans players would lightburn Nurse. And I haven't played for a long time so when I did Sloppy Butcher did work with Nurse's blinks.
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My opinion is that these changes are good, because the meta is stale and a shake up is good. People are viewing things one sided. There are changes to everyone. It is obvious these changes are meant to alter the meta strongly. My second opinion is that if they go back, then there likely will never be meaningful changes to survivors, as backing off on this would be a clear sign that, if survivors whine loud enough, they WILL get their way. Which means no huge changes/nerfs can ever go through.
The Hillbilly nerf is silly, though. Who even complained? I can't even recall the last time I saw a billy. He replaced Twins for "least seen killer" for me.
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To be fair we put billy in neutral cause we personally don't care either way.
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I like the idea behind it, but I think it's gonna fail. Regardless of how you feel, the gen perks do not need to be nerfed that badly.
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I've never seen any value in Furtive Chase.
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good patch changes beside hillbilly
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I'm pretty sure the pro/veterans blind the nurse to take away her second blink, we don't know if that aspect has been changed
Also i will never understand how people who stopped playing this game still stick around forums to give feedback about something they don't know about
You first say you will cry every survivor game to then reveal you don't actually play the game anymore
Sometimes i really wonder how many people on this forum don't actually play this game and flood it with useless feedback
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My guess is that players will hide in lockers more at first. Try to cheese out hatches. Once the generators start popping they’ll be like… “oh!”. Aura builds will become meta again. Things like “object or obsession” and “bond”. Botany will become more impactful for players that don’t have the more powerful perks. Booning totems for health states will become the new norm - meaning killers will be the ones destroying totems instead of survivors. Swf’s will still do gen rush strats meaning killers will likely need lethal persuer and some other kind of aura or chase perk to prevent the 4E. The gen decay and regression strategy will be nearly replaced, but there will still be some dedicated users. Things like jolt and thrilling tremors will replace the other generator killer perks. Killers will avoid you if you bring sprint burst. Some might even bring anti-exhaustion or hindering perks/add-ons just to prevent it. Hexes might get used more just to force survivors to destroy the totems - things like “hex haunted ground”. We’ll see a short return of iron maiden until people realize the scream mechanic is busted. Then it will be replaced by another perk. Survivors will no longer bring medkits. They’ll bring exclusively flashlights and toolboxes. We might see some brazen users of boil over and breakout trying to play a 2 survivor tag team - a yui/kate duo. Killers that can teleport catch will be destructive until either they’re nerfed or redesigned. Map offerings will be utilized to try and force the bigger maps to escape the terror radius perks that will be combo’d with coulrophobia. 3 gen playstyles will suffer slightly. So trapper and skull merchant will see less play. Billy will be boycotted just because people are annoyed by the change - many will likely swap to bubba. And… hatch builds and deliverance will make a comeback by the solo community.
that’s my thoughts.
1 -
Jolt and thrilling tremors.
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On Survivor I'm going to use Resilience, Overzealous, Deja Vu, and Adrenaline.
On Killer I'm just going to play Oni with Sloppy Butcher, Coulrophobia, Deadlock, and Tinkerer.
Maybe ill try some face camp bubba and see how that works out since no one will save.
I see games going by faster. Survivors will get frustrated, or the killer will just own.
I don't know my MMR, but it seems high on certain killers I play a lot and eh on survivor.
See you in the fog! 😎
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OMG, I want to absolutely thank all of you guys for the kind answers you gave under this thread.
I seriously appreciate each of one you for maintaining this a safe space, since I really love this game even with all his flaws, as much as all of you guys.
I needed this because I'm trying to improve myself at the game and bring positive feedback in the community, so really from the deepest of my heart, thanks to everyone who partecipated and to who's still giving his thoughts.
I'm trying to keep this format for each update so we can all work on to make the game a better place!
Super kisses to everyone <3
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it can show you what gens are and are not being worked on
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This is kind of what I’m expecting as well which is why I’m more okay with the gen regression nerfs as I’m hoping we’ll get the slow down in the form of healing. The only thing I’m worried about is ignoring healing and just gen rushing. This is kind of why I’ve always thought staying injured should have some down side like a hypothetical “10% slower gens while injured” or something like that. We’ll have to wait and see how it pans out though, maybe not necessary.
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I love new healing changes and COH nerfs, that was exactly what we needed. Although Self-Care should be buffed to even 55% of speed
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I’m liking the idea of a repair speed penalty while injured. We have people on these forums that think it might be easier to just do generators while injured, so they might need an incentive to heal.
The only change I would make, is the repair speed penalty should only happen if the survivor is injured but not broken. I wouldn’t want to punish survivors for not healing, if the game was preventing them from healing, especially because killers like Plague and Legion can cause survivors to become injured.
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I do have the game and I have played it before. I just play on Xbox and don't have Xbox Live. I know what I am talking about. I played alot it was one of the games I played the most but now I'm forced away from it.
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I think you're getting your perks confused. Furtive chase doesn't do anything of the sort it just swaps your obsession and lowers your terror radius in chase. In other words it's absolutely useless.
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Oh absolutely. I would add that stipulation as well, they shouldn’t be punished if they literally can’t heal.
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Good survivors just will not heal. We'll just put on resilience and bang out the gens even faster because you have worse options to slow the game down. If you thought gen rushing was bad before this patch, just wait until most of your games are over in 3-4 minutes.
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