Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Rise of Unfun playstyle after healing nerf
The new healing changes will significantly benefit the killer side, but there is some aspect of the game that felt like it was overlooked. Healing becomes harder which results in camping becoming easier. My suggestion is to bring the Pig’s Reversed Bear Trap system over to hooks as well. In that I mean if a Survivor is hooked their hook timer will be frozen till a generator is completed. In my opinion, this could completely kill camping because Survivors can 99 % all the necessary Generators without any risk, so killers will be forced to play differently. And if a Survivor hits the second stage their timer would stop again till another generator completion. This change will not hurt the killer as much because if you have seen Survivors using the Reassurance perk you could have experienced that sometimes saving would have been the better move but because the hooked survivor was reassured the unhooker hesitated. But to make sure the killer will have some benefit too I would add that if a survivor is hooked the most progress generator becomes blocked till the Survivor is saved. If multiple survivors being hooked results in multiple generators being blocked. I would also allow killers to damage blocked generators. In the endgame starting the endgame collapse would activate hook stages too, and any survivor’s hook timer would start instantly who has been hooked in the endgame collapse. What do you think?
Comments
-
Interesting idea but I fear that would have some big downsides to it. Survivors could just always wait with unhooking a survivor until they finish a gen. Of course that won't work for long, until the killers gets their second down, but I still think it could be problematic. But maybe not, hard to say.
You are absolutely right though that with this healing nerf, camping has to be nerfed in some way as well, and the fact that it's not in the ptb is hopefully just an oversight, or simply a means for BHVR to test just how impactful 24 second healing times will be.
I would simply increase survivors hook phase duration from 60 to 75 or 80 seconds, and remove hook grabs. That would definitely nerf camping and give survivors a fairer fighting chance aganist a camping killer. That plus the fact that longer healing times will also encourage the killer to not camp and tunnel could cause a noticeable reduction in camping and perhaps even tunneling.
Regarding your suggestion to encourage killers to not camp by blocking gens, I think that would be way too much. The much longer healing times will already encourage killers to not camp.
3 -
But that generator will become more vulnerable to damage, no one leaves 99% generator in mid-game anymore (if it's not the pig) this could bring back that and allow the killer to damage the generator with pop or overcharge+call of brine. I would also decrease the base hook timer to 20 seconds from 45 seconds so rushing generator would be less optional.
0 -
While this could potentially fix camping entirely, it wont change 3 gen camping at all. The healing nerf still greatly buffs this killer playstyle. So not only will killers get easier camping, they will also get easier 3 genning capabilities, unfortunately.
Most Skull Merchants and The Knight load into the match and just camp 3 gens the whole game, lack of healing is just going to give the killer a higher chance to win through this playstyle. I'm even guilting of this just so I could farm survivors for killer achievements because it was easy. Healing nerfs just make it more so.
0 -
And then what would happen is survivors would simply stop doing generators when someone is hooked and dedicate to heal and going for the save, forcing the killer to do even more camping to try to prevent the hooked survivor to being unhooked, which would lead to either the killer not getting any kills or games ending by time out after one hour.
In fact, you just gave the perfect way of abusing this system yourself: If someone is hooked, 99% generators and go for the save over and over again. The moment no survivor is hooked, start completing gens in less than a second until the 5 of them are done and escape.
Horrible idea. Also, remember they nerfed to the ground regression, too. There is no way a killer would be able to regress a gen for survivors to not recover it fast enough, more so without any other type of pressure.
3 -
The healing changes haven't gone live, so there's no rise of anything due to them yet.
4 -
„And then what would happen is survivors would simply stop doing generators when someone is hooked and dedicate to heal”
It might happen, and that time can be useful for the killer to regress the generators or try to stop the survivors healing.
„forcing the killer to do even more camping”
„If someone is hooked, 99% generators and go for the save over and over again. The moment no survivor is hooked, start completing gens in less than a second until the 5 of them are done and escape.”
So why would anyone camp with a competitive mindset? Camping would make you lose all of your time as a killer and give a huge boost to the Survivor team. My whole point is to make camping unprofitable to force the killer to play in ways that are ideally more fun for both sides. Currently, if done right, camping has a huge boost on the killer's winning chance without much skill involvement.
„they nerfed to the ground regression, too.”
but the Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Eruption combo was way too strong, so they needed to nerf that, but they did it in a weird way instead of just limiting the stacking on them or something less severe. But we still have other ways to regress generators, and some killers do well with only chasing perks too, so you don’t need to crutch on them all the time.
0 -
Let’s wait to see how effective the nerfs are first. 400% to 155% is a huge nerf, and many 3 generators build crutches on it.
1 -
Killers with a winning mentality will do whatever it takes to win, and if there are already many injured survivors, they can just camp and take the ez win. I have no doubt about that. Even one of the favorite UK killer main says that camping will increase.
0 -
I think it will be the opposite for me, im giddy about all the extra time I have on my hands, no need to tunnel at all.
Not every hit is denied by DHs, Survivors don't heal up in zero seconds. A lot of Risk of my shoulders, no sweat required.
1 -
What I find funny, is that we have these similar "worries" from both sides of the role divide.
"Healing changes will make camping easier!"
and
"Healing changes and regression nerfs will lead to more gen rushing!"
But you know what? The counters to these are also more effective, and they counter each other.
Survivors are genrushing? Pressure them off gens! Your hits are more impactful now. Stop camping and they won't be able to genrush.
Killers are more lethal? Leave the gens, stop greeding gens to rush them and protect yourself, they're not going to regress as much. Stop genrushing and they won't be able to capitalise injuries.
Neither side is losing as much by not camping or not genrushing anymore, your impact on the game (repairs made/injuries inflicted) has more lasting influence, if you just play smart and adapt to what the other side is doing, you get a much more balanced game.
1 -
It might happen, and that time can be useful for the killer to regress the generators or try to stop the survivors healing.
Yeah, about that... do you still don't get that max regression now is 4:30 minutes to fully regress a gen, don't you? Regression is dead. Regression have always being not enough even with CoB+OC on his prime and only was useful thanks to pile it up with insta-regression loss, Eruption and camping gens. Now, 30 seconds at max regression (155%, -0.3875 c/s) can be recovered by just one survivor in 11.62 seconds. Two survivors, in 6.83 seconds. And that's basekit progression.
but the Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Eruption combo was way too strong, so they needed to nerf that
The point is not if they needed a nerf or not (spoilers: For your example of "kick regression build", they didn't. They already "nerfed" the main culprit of that build, Eruption. And I say "nerfed" because in reality they destroyed it by giving it an useless effect unless you have an slugging build). The point is, with them nerfed (which they did to both solve 3 genning being so strong and to compensate for the healing nerf, something you still fail to see) there is regression no more.
But we still have other ways to regress generators
What other ways? Because I think you are confusing "regression" with "slowdown" and insta-progress lost effects. Without any kind of regression buffing, a gen would take 6 minutes to fully regress. CoB+OC was the regression. Insta progress lost like PR (also nerfed) or Jolt was a help to regress those gens, but one makes the gen lose just 13.5 charges and the other 7.2 charges. That's you patrolling 3 gens in most maps with a 4.6 m/s killer, as from gen to gen it would take you around 10 seconds walking. And again, that is if we only take in count one survivor with just basekit progression. So no, the killer would not regress any generators.
And to respond to the rest of your post regarding your "anti-camping system", let's do an hypothetical case:
After the first chase, the killer hook somebody. With your system in place, the killer have two options:
- Leaving to chase somebody else.
- Stay and camp the hook.
First option:
If the killer leaves to find somebody else, he will leave the hook free to some survivor to come and do the save. Not that they have any urgency in doing that, as now until they complete a full gen the clock isn't advancing, so no pressure in having one of their partners hooked.
So, instead of unhooking right away, survivors would keep doing gens until they are at 99% or the killer comes to stop them. When the killer is in chase with another survivor (something they would know thanks to the Status HUD Icons), one of them will just go to do the unhook. If the killer downs another survivor, they will do exactly the same they did with an optional heal (because again, there is no rush in having someone hooked anymore, so doesn't matters how many times the killer down you). If the killer decide to kick one of the gens it would not matter as now the regression is so low that they would be able to recover what is lost in no time, and even if that wasn't the case they have plenty of time to do it again as there is no pressure in having someone hooked.
And everytime the killer hooks somebody, it will be back to the beginning: Leave, or stay.
Second option:
If he stays, all the time he is in the hook the survivors are free to just do gens until 99%, and keep doing it. In fact, one or two of them can go to the hook not with the intention of unhooking, but for the killer to stay in the hook to avoid it. Get close, when the killer start chase move to the closest loop, the other come close, and now again, the same dilemma: come back and stay by the hook, scaring off the other survivor, or continue the chase and leave it so they can get the free unhook. In other words, back to the beginning again! But if he decide to keep staying there, the survivors would simply 99% 5 gens, start doing them one after another in a matter of seconds, leaving them with their objectives done and 2 whole minutes to open the gates and go for the save before the first hooked survivors is sacrificed.
Whatever the killer chooses:
Survivors only need to keep this cycle of "do gens till 99% or complete if there is no hooked survivors at that moment, unhook if having the chance or more than one survivor is downed, repeat until all gens are done" to be able to enjoy their rightful victory by tbagging the killer that won't be able to hook anybody at the exit gates. GG Ez baby killer!
To tell the truth, there is another possible case and probably the only chance for the killer to maybe get some kills: Try to slug somebody until bleed. But this would force him to camp the downed survivor for 4 minutes, allowing the others to again complete gens one by one. So, again, he is screwed, but if he is lucky and the other survivors aren't able to do the save maybe he can get a 1 or 2 bleed out to death.
In conclusion, that's what your "anti-camping system" would do. Not "making camping unprofitable", but make the game unplayable for killers.
Start understanding what the new changes would do in paper (as we still have to see how things would go when they release the PTB) and try to give a little more thought to your next idea before posting. And I say it in the most constructive way possible.
Post edited by Batusalen on0 -
Bruh, if killers somehow injured many survivors and also managed to protect many generators, and then hooked a survivor, they deserves to win lol
You don't need a counter for "camping", face camping is a problem but camping is not.
0 -
How is the killer camping and injuring survivors at the same time? Hint: they cant. A true camper just downs one person and never leaves them. If every survivor becomes injured, thats a lot of time and effort on the killers part and if the killer camps successfully due to the survivor teams failed chases, that is fully on them.
I would love more anti-camp mechanics, but the healing changes have nothing to do with this.
2 -
BHVR already has had a solution rdy for that "problem"
0 -
Interesting. Is that an UI for the prototyping of the anticamp, or the new system would come with a new UI element?
Someone should see what that file have inside.
0 -
"if a Survivor is hooked their hook timer will be frozen till a generator is completed."
Oh boy, I can't wait for the entire SWF to stop what they're doing to start performing EGC plays when there's 4 gens remaining.
1
