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Am I the only one who wants the PTB to go live as it is ?
- Still don’t understand why it’s the end of the world for survivors mains to add few seconds to healing ? Especially when you have perks to deal with that.
- Still don’t understand why people say soloQ will suffer ? I play mostly soloQ, just bring a medkit…and coordinate with your team. Yes sometimes you will get bad teamates, that’s life it’s the same with every PVP games.
- Still don’t understand why survivors mains are crying about circle of healing ? My favorite build is 4 boons and I am very happy that this perk is not holding the other boon perks anymore, we can finally hope for more changes in the future and more boons perks. Also it is still perfectly viable lmao ? It seems the only survivors complaining about this change were the ones using only CoH for themselves as a selfcare which is not the idea behind boons at all.
- Now for killers I find hilarious that Otz is complaining about the call of brine nerf. This perk alone is S tier and the idea is to shake up the meta, I hope we see a more chase oriented meta, or a devour / pentimento comeback.
- Very excited to play Demo, Twins, Wraith, Sadako again without the infinite fast healing or no animation dead hards.
Even if this last for 2 weeks, I will be glad.
Comments
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It's not "survivor mains crying about healing changes". It's "players worried that healing someone else taking an insane amount of time with certain killer perks against".
I've seen people mentioning "just bring autodidact, bro" but is it better to bring always only a perk to fix a problem or is it better to fully address the problem?
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Not a Survivor main (I play both sides evenly) and even I can answer a few of these:
- “Why is it the end of the world to add a few second to healing?” because camping becomes increasingly problematic, 24 seconds for a heap means two Survivors have to spend 48 seconds to heal, meaning they have 12 seconds to make an unhook. With certain perks, it can make it physically impossible to do anything. Sidenote, the changes to healing also change recovery time, it takes 48 seconds to recover from the dying state, this isn’t factoring in perks like Knockout. I think it can promote unhealthy playstyles for the game.
- ”It isn’t bad when you have perks to deal with this,” but what about people who do not run meta perks? Running something like Botany Knowledge, Autodidact, or We’ll Make It to counteract a basekit nerf effectively reduces the amount of perks people can/will run; this affects people who don’t run meta and also further causes more issues since the teams that bring meta will just use Generator Repair perks now that regression is dead. Also the people who will be affected the most by these changes negatively a newer/less experienced players, who already have a horrible time as it is, and will likely not have access to the perks they need, which is concerning.
- Circle of Healing was a decent change honestly, not that mad about it, I wish Boon: Dark Theory got a buff though, it’s got nothing going for it.
- Call of Brine needed a nerf since it made Surveillance a useless perk. As a Surveillance enjoyer, I’m glad Call of Brine was changed in some way.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on16 -
Killers have been asking this in regards to regression perks for as long as I can remember.
And it's never been an absolute. While gen regression is "absolutely necessary" it's also possible to succeed without it.
The same can be true for survivors and healing perks. The main difference is that i stead of one CoH in 16 perks being mandatory, now each survivor needs to consider their healing capabilities and what, if anything, to bring into the game to help with that.
That said, I think the 16 to 24 base charges are way too much, particularly wirh all the knock on effects to perks that influence healing speed, and especially recovery time. Altruistic heali g has to be faster than self healing, and especially recovery.
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I'm a survivor main and still have no idea why PR was problematic but i guess they nuked the perk because they want a new meta now.
Its now genrush vs antihealing meta and all it dose is scare away new players who cant loop.
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Nah I'm down.
4 -
Have you ever played Solo Queue and get out on a hook only to see that the killer slugged someone, got in a chase with another and the person who is supposed to be your rescuer is across the map, self caring in a corner? It’s a miserable experience, one in which I prefer to be face-camped by the killer instead.
Now, with the proposed nerf to base healing, you will have that idiot in the distance taking even longer and by the time they come for you, you’ll be dead. It’s not fun at all.
While I understand the devs motive in wanting to promote more chases with a hit and run play style for killers, this nerf isn’t needed. All the other nerfs are fine, but base kit healing needs to be the same or Botany knowledge needs a massive buff.
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- I am pretty sure the recovery change is unintended.
- There are 3 survivors to save not 2. Also it’s just a few seconds more to completely erase the killer pressure and yes, you have free perks to deal with this…if you don’t want to use free healing perks to heal faster it’s a choice and you will succeed more easily in other objectives categories. I don’t think the game is supposed to be balanced around 4 perkless survivors vs the killer. Devs are taking into account exhaustion , healing, and repair perks to balance. I mean, I hope so.
2 -
BHVR might need find a solution for extreme healing speed stacking on killers and survivors, but besides that I think everything should be implemented.
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The past couple years since circle/boons were added there's been an incredible amount of power creep to combat healing.
Hemmhorage regressing heal progress, sloppy getting double that regression, Coulrophobia speeding up skill checks, and TONS of new aura reading perks to keep pressure on injured survivors (it used to be only BBQ, nurse's, I'm all ears).
Literally none of that is changing or even being considered for a change.
It's the same thing with gens, but the other way. Deleting gen regression might be ok IF you do it while addressing Prove, Hyperfocus, and BNP. But if you do only one half, it gets insanely unbalanced the other way.
You can't just nerf gens for killers and healing for survivors as if that somehow balances the game. It only creates two incredibly unbalanced aspects.
4 man SWF teams will pre drop pallets and gen rush with resilience and adrenaline like it's comp. There's nothing (most) killers can do to stop that.
Solo q will be somehow even less able to function and will be injured or healing the entire game. Solos already prioritize healing over everything else and don't need the additional slowdown.
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11 hits add 1 Gen time.
1 -
I'll always advocate for actual fixes over plasterfixes. However, killer players have argued that games go too fast and survivor players argued that slowdown perks are frustrating to go against. This has pretty much always been the main discourse in DBD, and BHVR has continuously made changes to slowdown perks as a result. Some are too strong or annoying and should be changed and some are too weak and get buffed.
Regardless, patch after patch, the same arguments get dropped every single time: "We need more slowdown/the game goes too fast!" or "No one enjoys holding m1 for 2 minutes to get a single gen done!".
Changing the healing speed is a way around all of this, at least in theory. Slowdown perks got nerfed with this patch so the healing speed will be the main way of slowing down the game for killers (or at least that seems to be the intention of the devs). Healing becomes more of a delicate choice for survivors. Is this the right time to get healed or not. At the same time, gen regression takes another hit, so the survivors won't have as many annoying setbacks either.
In a way, they're taking on this (genslowdown meta) discourse by removing the plasterfixes and (re)introducing new methods of slowing down games that also won't hugely impact the main objective of survivors either. I don't think this discourse will disappear either if those changes do go live, but at least they're going with a new and interesting approach. If those changes end up sucking, then nothing is stopping the devs from going back to the good old genslowdown perks.
Either way, I'm sure both killer and survivor players will adapt to the changes as they have done for years now. My main concern is that the gap between soloqueue and SWF might become bigger once more with CoH getting a nerf.
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Nah i want it so much too :)) i want to watch it my guess true or not, what i suspect will happen with dbd but i'm pretty sure it won't turn out that way unfortunately i wish to see dbd slowly but surely dwindle away and bhvr desperately trying to fix-save it
Also please bhvr let your dream & ideas become true and implament it :]
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The recovery change is very much intended, at least it seems like it.
- If they wanted to slow down healing only, they would simply reduce the c/s for healing and items.
- BHVR increased the amount of charges needed for a health state, this means it takes 24 charges to recover/heal a health state, recovering at 0.5 c/s (half the base healing speed).
Also this is ignoring the elephant in the room with camping; if 3 Survivors are healing just to counter someone camping, no one is doing Generators. The Killer is progressing their objective but the Survivors aren’t progressing theirs. Either way camping is significantly more beneficial for the Killer while involving significantly less effort.
This is made further complicated when you have SoloQ since coordinating healing becomes more difficult compared to SWF. This isn’t even considering some Killers are especially good at injuring Survivors, so even when an unhook occurs, the Killer can just undo all that healing and start the process all over again.
And as I mentioned before, brand new/less experienced players are going to suffer the most from these changes. They are not going to have the perks necessary to deal with this. And even F2P players are going to take a hit with perks like Reassurance being locked behind a paywall while Kinship gets unironically nerfed.
6 -
And yet soloQ survivors are able to beat legion and plague.
Seems like they are able to repair generators while being injured.
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Yeah, good survivors don't care if they are injured. Casual players and bad survivors will be decimated, who are the players that should be healing against legion or cleansing against plague.
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I don’t think you understand what I am trying to say.
When you face a Legion or Plague, they play normally and chase Survivors. 95% of them do not camp from my experience.
I am pointing out problematic gameplay that can occur as a result of these changes. Those 5% of people who do camp are going to have an easier and more rewarding time doing so.
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Think it's just general heal increase and they didn't notice how recovery being longer will be problematic. On of the reasons to do a PTB to find some things that make it past their testing.
If a killer can injure all 4 survivors and get a down then that's a skilled thing for the killer. I see it basically saying the devs shouldn't reward skilled plays. Certain killers might need looking into but that isn't a problem imo.
Soloq is terrible because of matchmaking. How does MM work if you can't even win games running the killer for minutes. The new changes reward that skilled plays by survivor which in turn should ideally help or work toward making the MM better for soloq.
PVP don't balance their entire game around new players. You see healing being an issue as a new player you rock claud for Botany.
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You are describing a very specific scenario where a killer is camping and somehow managed to injure the whole team so no one can save.
First of all, it’s not a bad idea to camp / proxycamp / back to defend the hook in this situation. The survivors made huge mistakes for allowing this to happen. Giving a hook state in this situation so the whole team can reset is not a bad trade. After the save, the rescued survivor has to hide and repair like a rat the rest of the trial.
Also in your scenario, no one is using reassurance. This perk is not that rare.
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Yes, you're one of the few entinted ppl that want this to go live
10 -
Sorry to agree with the devs.
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There's no way this go live and you know it. Entitlement at it's finest, even hardcore killer only players agree that is a horrible patch.
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Hmmm.
- “If the Killer can injure all 4 Survivors and get a down, then that’s a skilled thing to do,” ya know it isn’t hard to play Legion, nor is it hard to use a map offering and Never Sleep Pills. As someone who plays Killer (and Survivor) A LOT, with CoH being nerfed, having and maintaining injures on Survivors is going to be rather easy in most matches, especially when paired with anti-healing perks.
- “SoloQ is terrible because of matchmaking,” I agree, but at the same time, if you make matchmaking strict Killer becomes significantly more stressful, and you’ll never hear the end of it from the forums. Tis’ a double edged sword.
- ”You see healing bring an issue as a new player, you rock Claud for Botany,” and new players are expected to run perks for every situation. They need stuff for healing, camping, tunneling, basic information, generator repairs, etc. The game is already incredibly hostile to new players and this amplifies that issue even more.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on2 -
Which is why I mentioned some killers might need to be looked at. Outside some killers that statement is true.
At the soft cap it is all swf basically. I legit break 3+ mins runs in my soloq games and will auto-lose every match. The changes make skillful play more rewarding. It is a step in the right direction in fixing soloq. Is the matchmaking actually broken or is skillful play not rewarded enough where skilled players can't win games consistently without playing certain playstyles(lonewolf). Also the massive amount of handholding for killer is removed which should also help in this regard.
I don't think that is an issue for new players. Are new killers playing like it's a comp match? You're not wrong in needing those perks, but are there players doing that stuff as new players?
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“Giving a hook state in this situation so the whole team can reset is not a bad trade,” tell me, which is better?
- 1 hook spread across 3 different Survivors.
- 3 hooks on a single Survivor (sacrificed).
Why wouldn’t the Killer just tunnel the Survivor who gets unhooked? They have no reason not to.
I do not think you understand what I am trying to say in the slightest. Just because a play is skillful, does not mean it is smart, and vice versa. People are naturally going to make the smarter play because it is more rewarding than the skillful play. Camping will increase, because people are going to take the path of least resistance, especially if you aren’t rewarded as much or are punished by making the more skillful play. “Work smarter, not harder.” As a result, situations like this become more common because skill is not properly rewarded and camping is being (in)directly buffed.
Also, I rarely see Reassurance or Kinship in my matches, I maybe see one every 20-30 games. Also this doesn’t even consider some areas do not allow for Reassurance to be used easily (basement, most notably). And again, newer/less experienced players are taking the hugest hit, since they are not equipped or ready to deal with such, amplified by the fact that Killers can do it at any skill level with little effort (as mentioned before, path of least resistance).
4 -
a few more seconds to healing = basekit 33% slower heals, which is more than mangled does now
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Are we talking about normal play or for new players? Normal play can punish tunneling by everyone running SB+OTR. I've already had killers try to play like it is comp into those perks and get heavily punished for doing so.
I would say camping will be seen more if survivors stay injured but should decrease with injuries being more impactful and regression being gutted.
This seems to be an issue most affected by soloq. Think there was even a picture of a camping icon which might imply the HUD getting a buff to show a killer is camping hooks. Progress on gens stick more so killers camping when survivors are healthy doesn't make much sense. Survivors just trade when the player goes close to next stage and gen are flying left and right. What makes camping so strong is when the survivors don't know it is happening and spend time going to hook. If the HUD gets an update to fix this then I don't see it being a problem.
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You act like new players don’t camp and tunnel?
Camping and tunneling exists in all skill levels, since people are naturally going to make the smarter play over the more skilled play, especially if playing smarter is more rewarding.
Being skilled and improving should be rewarding to the Killer, this change without changing anything to camping will make the less skilled (but smarter) play more rewarding in my opinion. Which is partly where I take issue.
This affects everyone, it has a bigger impact on newer/experienced players, but I think it will still impact all MMR ranges to some degree, to better clarify.
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- Having your whole team injured while someone is on the hook is a YOU problem. You messed up. That literally shouldn't even be possible unless you are gen rushing and ignoring healing. The point of this update is to make it so that killers don't have to run gen regression perks (which tbh there aren't any good ones left at this point) and instead have basekit gen defense by spreading pressure. Camping and tunneling are only ever effective if the survivors make it effective. Keep yourself healed instead of gen rushing, and then the camping won't be a good strategy.
- The point isn't to "not run meta perks" they even said it in the changes, the point is to "shake up" the meta. The reality is, no matter what is done, a new meta will always develop. That's just how games work.
- Boons being permanent fixtures makes them hard to buff. They have the opposite problem of hex perks. Maybe that'll get changed
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Ok? So how does these changes do anything there? You need SB+OTR to counter the proxy+tunnel. So are we to not change the game because you need 1 more perk as a new player?
Yea very true. And I see the healing taking longer encourages playing the entire map more. Then you add on the fact that SB is meta which pairs amazing with OTR and I don't see the problem. The issue I see is players make it seem that all injured with one down is a problem that shouldn't be in the game. The problem in that case, outside a few killers, is a skill issue.
Making injuries matter more does make it rewarding for both sides playing skillful. Camping Is better when you injure everyone and I don't see, again outside a few killers, how there is a buff there when kick and PR were gutted. Unskilled camping is nerfed while skilled camping is buffed.
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PLEASE MAKE THE BLOOD WEB QUIET / VOLUME OPTION IN SETTINGS. PLEAZE.
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Even with the perk nerfs, I still think camping will be improved.
SH: Pain Resonance, for example, if you are camping the hook, and paired it with Dead Man’s Switch, you don’t need more than 4 activations anyways.
Deadlock remained unchanged.
No Way Out remained unchanged.
With a full build dedicated to slowing down the match while camping has basically not been changed and/or has hardly been nerfed. And now they will have more options to camp with because of Sloppy Butcher and Coulrophobia.
Again, this does have impact upon all skill levels.
I just wish skill was more rewarded, when I play Killer well, I want to feel like I am rewarded for playing well. And I feel horrible from the idea that someone sitting in front of the hook, not moving, could do better than any of my efforts. It feels worse as Survivor of course, seeing someone put the bare minimum amount of effort and watching my team crumble to pieces, like a cookie breaking apart.
But can I blame them? It is the smarter play after all, it is rewarded more after all, it takes less effort after all. This, this is where I have an issue in. You can buff the rewards of getting a hit, to reward skill, but the lack of impactful changes towards camping just is a complete takeaway to me.
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For PR you only get one proc if you tunnel and camping shouldn't be a problem if you rotate hooks. Lets say you get 3 hooks with PR and now survivors can rotate 3 players. Might not be enough of a nerf but how can the changes not be nerfing that.
True but PR makes it weaker
Same as above, and kick perks also nerf it
Sloppy into auto vs a swf is going to hurt more than help killers I think. Free 5 stacks for everyone at the start. Coul doesn't help with camping since you are not rotating the map. Just don't heal at hook and it isn't a problem. Again this doesn't mean there are niche cases like Wesker on small maps but those should be addressed separately.
I completely agree with the feeling that some dude barely puts effort in and gets massively rewarded. That's why I love this patch, because it remove a bunch of the handholding that the game currently has. And hey it might not be enough but the direction is good.
I think it makes it closer though. Yes the best way might be to still proxy+tunnel but the gap between that and going for hooks will be closer. It looks to me that camping and tunnel are weaker next patch while going for hooks is better. Even if the former is still the best thing it's the correct direction to be going. At the end of the day the most important thing is doing constant updates and moving in the correct direction. Things might not be fixed now but eventually it will get there.
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I truly hope that there are not many people who want this patch to go live as is.
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This completely ignores the fact that these killers have to rely purely on getting a normal hit to get a down.
A 50% increase to heal times is nothing to scoff at
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Im okay with everything except the Hillbilly and the healing changes.
The healing changes are a bit much imo and orobably need to be toned down a bit before going live
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Outside of the changes to hags traps and not being able to burn Wraith this mid chapter is an absolute disaster.
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its a good patch
survivors just so rarely nerfed so they are throwing a bit of a tantrum
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Yes.
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No one wants to spend longer than necessary in one spot when it comes to healing, players want to be doing other things. And then it comes to players potentially having to take certain perks (to combat the healing change), now that ain't fun; especially when the devs have mentioned several times (to many things in the past) that survivors shouldn't be forced to run specific perks. There are other ways to balance survivor healing, this doesn't seem like one of them.
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1.) How is it a ‘you’ problem if the whole team is injured especially since some killers excel in that? Is it still a ‘you’ problem if the killer has intelligently stacked healing slowdown perks? And how exactly can survivors stop camping & tunneling?
2.) Ok.
3.) Idk I think books are a failed concept. They exist because killer mains wanted survivors to have a second objective but BHVR had to make it something survivors would choose over completing gens. Now they’re not going to use boons at all because they’re all pretty mediocre/bad and outclassed by more versatile perks. Hex perks are still better.
2 -
Plague can down survivors with her Corrupt Purge but ironically healing in her fountains is more efficient than the entire survivor healing mechanic now. Lol.
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Plenty of people do. But like 80% of the playerbase is survivor mains, who obviously don't want sizable nerfs to themselves. So obviously, they will cry the loudest and the "majority" will be against it. But if you only listen to said majority in an asym game, you'll end up with one side being God mode and the other being unwinnable, because by design, there will always be more survivors.
I have seen very few killer players who are crying for this to go away. It's basically exclusively survivor players here. And the occasional "I totally play killer, believe me!" And like...otz and tofu. That's about it. I don't even play killer anymore and only solo queue, and I want this because after thousands of hours, things are stale and I want a sizable change that greatly shakes things up. There is also no genuine competitor to jump to so people have to just quit the genre if they want to leave.
2 -
This patch is going to do catastrophic damage to the game.
It's buffing good SWF's and nerfing casual players on both sides. As an experienced Killer, I get to stomp casual players even harder and get less tools to deal with good teams.
Also, simply saying that anyone who disagrees with you is clearly a crying Survivor main is childish at best.
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Oh?
You enjoy getting gen rushed?
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Sure, it's better than the current meta. It's a change. The only other choice is find a new game that isn't the same exact stale thing for over half a decade. Also I said I don't play killer, as the post says. Survivors made that too miserable in order to have their "fun" so I just play solo survivor. I just know how to adapt my playstyle. But screaming and crying seems to work far better.
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I think you quoted the wrong post. That one wasn't aimed towards you.
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and you have free perks to deal with heals and make it way slower. why not run them instead of gen regression perks???
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You clearly play a side game.
If you think you're right then you haven't played the game in a while or you've played something else.
But no problem, have fun playing with bots.
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If you really think the only thing happening with the PTB is that it “adds a few seconds to healing” then you clearly haven’t played the PTB or you’re just oversimplifying the myriad multiple problems and snowball effects these changes as-is are going to have. Either way it’s impossible to have an honest conversation with someone who holds that viewpoint. Have a good night.
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So just booting up and playing soloq now?
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