lets discuss playing survivor is still going to be ez mode after the new patch
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I'm expecting deadlock, sloppy, noed, no way out, or some other variant of end game perks, with an extreme amount of face/proxy camping and hard tunneling. Especially if the healing changes all go through.
Survivors are forced to give the killer 2 free hits to perfectly save from the face camp, and then they have to spend 60 seconds (a full hook stage) resetting before they can save the next hook.
It's low effort, super effective vs solos, and basically a win-win unless it's a full 4 stack. Oh, and don't forget 'gens fly' so the killer is 'forced' to tunnel.
Edit: autocorrect
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not sure what accurate data that would provide since i would be rolling the dice with every game since you know random...i could get 3 other comp level survivors or 3 "i just bought the game today" survivors...play swf there are always posts looking for people on xbox not sure about other systems
you can prove to me how gen efficient you are or what do you do during the match? if you arent in chase you should be on a gen right?
all you need to run for this new patch is autoditact (2 skill check hits is the same as old healing) or botany knowledge for the 50 percent heal increase...med kits are still good for 1 full quick heal and with built to last/streetwise another one
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i actually see a new gen regress meta of either corrupt/deadlocked/no way out/sloppy butcher or a full anti heal build sloppy/coul/pentimento/thana depending on the killer
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You're literally countering your own initial post. Everyone gets pitted with randoms, players of different mmr, ping, and so on, not just you.
Besides, you're the one going on a tangent and "guaranteeing" that playing survivor will be easy mode, if you're so full of it, how about you prove it, without whining about the most basic nonsensical mechanics everyone faces.
I'm not the one here calling playing survivor gg ez, you are. And you're utterly hilarious if you think that putting on Autodidact is always going to help you/guarantee you of X amount of skillchecks. None of that does jacksh*t against Nurse, Blight and Spirit.
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You spelled "SWF" wrong.
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Gen speeds and pallets aren't being touched and gen defence is being nerfed. So the game remains survivor sided, but a small step in the right direction.
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At least now you won't be gen rushed by fully healed survivors constantly :). So this is good news.
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" Low mmr and high mmr games already have a clear split" no I disagree there BHVR has never been good at matchmaking you could win twenty matches in a row and still get bad killers and the same goes for survivors I could get twenty 4ks in a row and still get paired with low mmr survivors with 40 hrs in the game that's just the way it's always been though, until they can fix that they're just making changes in the dark pretty much to just stir everyone up and have them distracted at the fact this game is boring in the current state
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You just can't ignore the 3 huge nerfs to healing and the nerf of the most used survivor exhaustion perk to fit your narrative.
Not every map has a lot of pallets.
Not every surv plays full genrush and if they do, they are risking themselves to be tunneled/camped more efficiently.
Now, i am not saying gen speeds do not need to be addressed but let's not pretend that survivors are not going to get a massive hit this patch especially soloQ not just "a small step".
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I'm not ignoring them. I'm saying that taking all the changes into account, the game is still survivor sided. Just maybe slightly less so than before, but thats not a bad thing. As I said, the healing nerfs are a step in the right direction though.
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Wait, how Survivor-sided do you think the game is?
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Ah yes let's consider the combos.
- Pain Res works once per player instead of ~8-12 times per game. That's something like a 50% nerf ; it's mathematically more but realistically do you really need to keep using PR after 6 hooks and 2 people are dead?
- Overcharge and CoB are 70-75% nerfed. There is no combo on perks that lost 70-75% effectiveness. Would anyone use an exhaustion perk if they were only giving 25% of the distance you get now?
- What you have left are "nasty" combos like Jolt and Oppression. Jolt is great if you keep downing the same player over and over again in the same spot and does nothing when people Shift+W. Jolt works great when you can down them and take off 8% progress and hook them for another 15% progress removed. Jolt is not going to do anything on its own - it never did. Many of the perks that are left are things like Oppression that nobody used anyway because it had no synergy. If you could combine Pop+ Oppression every 80 seconds then maybe that would make the long cooldown of Oppression and the nerfed state of Pop make sense. But there is no combo so it doesn't make any sense to use. There is of course Eruption but that perk already got nerfed because it used to take about 25% off a generator (considering you can't touch it during the timer) and now it just does 10% which is not worth a perk slot.
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Difficult to quantify in a number, if that's what you mean. But that's certainly my opinion and experience.
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Slightly Survivor-sided, moderately Survivor-sided or very Survivor-sided
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PGTW, Overcharge, CoB and Eruption.
Overcharge and CoB are still fine when used together. They have excellent synergy. PGTW eliminates the big weakness, which is the lack of short-term chunk regression. Overcharge prevents gen tapping and helps after CoB runs out. Eruption then slaps another 10% regression whenever you get a down.
I guarantee you will see people running this as they attempt to cling to the old meta.
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With these proposed changes. Hard to say without seeing it myself, but I'd say around moderately survivor sided, and today I'd say the game is between moderately and very survivor sided. Again, my experience and opinion. Be kind 😀
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Why do you feel that way?
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Fair question. I play both sides and find survivor so much easier and less stressful. To summarise. The amount of pallets, loops, and windows, alongside gen speed, healing in its current state, and perk choice, to me, means it isn't hard to play survivor well.
And the points above are conversely why killer is more difficult.
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By the way, you clearly disagree with me. But thank you for respectfully disagreeing 😀
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Easier to play and less stressful does not equate to being stronger.
From my own personal experience, the game is pretty heavily Killer-sided. Most players are completely unequipped to deal with what Killers can bring to the table. I think I'm averaging around an 85% Kill Rate.
For a less personal experience, look at the overall Kill Rates. The last stats we got showed that the Survival Rate was 39%. How could the game, itself, be overall Survivor-sided if Killers are doing so well overall?
I do think that at the very highest level, the game is still Survivor-sided. However, I'm extremely confident in saying that for new, casual and average players, the game is very much Killer-sided.
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Exactly, solo q people will NOT play against a legion without healing for example.
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You're exactly right.
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When I said easier to play I meant easier to win.
I see your point as regards to the higher levels.
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hopefully nerfs for blight / spirit / nurse , i really hope , like dude , they nerfed billy in this patch , BILLY? WHY?
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-"Overcharge and CoB are still fine when used together."
So you do realize that both perks together on the PTB do less than one does right now right? That's because it's a 70-75% nerf to effectiveness.
-"PGTW eliminates the big weakness, which is the lack of short-term chunk regression"
Kicing a generator takes 1.8 seconds and removes 2.5% progress which is 2.25 seconds (add this to all calculations).
Pop was dead last patch because it only affects "current progress." What do you get if a generator is on 20% progress? You get 20% of 90 seconds% which is : 3.6 seconds.
You're spending 1.8 seconds to remove 3.6 seconds of generator progress. During that 1.8 seconds you give 4 players 7.2 sconds to do whatever they want.
What happens if you kick a generator for 40% progress? You save 7 seconds. Oh man look at the savings!
This is a joke.
If you're running these perks and winning then other players likely could have won that game with no perks.
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Bait
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Okay?
I wasn't arguing whether the perks were going to be effective. I was arguing about whether or not they'll still see use.
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-"I wasn't arguing whether the perks were going to be effective"
I will accept your concession. My bad - I thought you were trying to tell me those perks were sill going to be viable. They are as dead as Disco (and even saying that is dead).
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Ok matches with low mmr survs and high mmr survs. The matchmaking is iffy but the results are the same. Mostly low mmr survs killer will stomp, mostly high mmr survs killers struggle.
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Killer is easy mode for me survivor hard mode when it comes to pipping. 4 man swf is different thing that is very easy mode.
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not much does against the s tier killers correct but against the rest of the "viable" killers really? with a straight face you say a nurse game is going to be as hard as a game vs a trapper?
i never guaranteed anything anywhere in my post...i just said survior is still going to be ez mode even with all the rng elements (unless you want to argue somehow that killer is ez mode you can state your facts as well). it is my opinion and i wanted to discuss why people are whining about taking one or two perks to counteract the healing nerfs.
autodictact stacks and you don't lose the bonus...longer healing time means more skill checks which means you get the efficiency from the perk in 1 to 2 heals go test it out. there is also botany knowledge or inner healing for quick heals none of this changed.
if i am full of it because i gave my opinion (since obviously i am the only one with an opinion ^_^) then sure guilty as charged. i would counter argue that you can easily prove it to me that killer is ez mode with your gameplay.
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Show me your soloQ gameplay if it's that easy.
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show me your solo queue gen rush build where it isn't ez? i dont think i ever mentioned solo queue anywhere but when i play solo you are going to see a gen rush build of me holding m1.
i mean all you are going to see in my build is a commodius with bnp/charge addons stakeout/fogwise/resilience/prove thyself or windows right now because if i am not getting chased i am finishing my objectives. if i get unhooked i am going right back to a gen and applying pressure and if a killer chases me hold w and pre drop pallets then comp corner. if everyone else is efficient on gens we are getting out of there...killers only win based on survivors mistakes it is a 4 vs 1 game its not hard
with the new changes what else are you doing in the match? totems/chests/bodyblocking/sabotaging/blinding and especially healing are all wastes of time if you are not efficient as a survivor you deserve to lose...killers can't magically hit all 4 survivors spread out on different gens at the same time
Post edited by Skill_issue on1 -
i honestly dont think bhvr knows how to nerf swf in any way that also doesn't affect solo queue
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Since you clearly have no clue as to what you wrote yourself, here let me quote yourself to you :)
heck even overzealous is getting a buff and you don't have to waste time healing...i guarantee your matches are going to be much shorter with the new changes and the nerfing of gen regression perks on the killer side. slap on a resilience/overzealous/stake out/fogwise with a good toolbox and you will still be able to listen to music and chill
You want to compare one of the worst killers to the best, just because you think that will get your point across, or make your "argument" have any weight to it? How often does the average player even face a Trapper? Most of my games are against Nurses, Blights and Weskers and an occasional Spirit to spice things up. You try to get skill-checks and save up your auto-didact while S-tier killer or heck even B-tier destroy your team with the thorough healing nefs :)
BTW, once again, I never stated that EITHER role is better or ez mode in comparison to one another. You did.
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using your mmr doesn't make my point any less valid ^_^ good for you that you only face higher tier killers...i am going with the released killer pick ratios that are provided.
so autoditact works differently to heal vs other killers? no it doesn't it will still be the same healing time...if you are healing within the killers radius and get found then yeah you deserve to get downed for not using common sense and finding a safe spot to heal.
yes i did state surivor is ez mode compared to killer that is my opinion...you asked me for my gameplay to prove it and i said you can show me your gameplay to prove killer is ez mode compared to survivor
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It's not that easy and I could say survivors wins because killers mistakes. I face mostly blight, nurse, spirit, wesker, nemesis and maybe knight. You can't just mindlessly pre drop pallets agains't these killers you have to play well mindgame and just outplay them. Well knight counterplay is to hold W but others nope.
Usually im the one who gives my team fighting chance looping these killers. When im not chased I do unhooks and gens sometimes peacefully sometimes not but this game is 4vs1 so killer can't pressure whole team always.
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That is whats wrong with the game. Balancing with low mmr factored in on a a pvp game might lower the entry bar but also leaves less room to progress in skill. It also creates a sense of entitlement among new players as soon as there are balance changes that are not geared toward or is unfavorable to them as they werent incentivized to get better at the game as can be seen by the review bombings and constant whinings from low skilled survivors with the latest patch.
I would say the games balance have to revolve around the top 20% of the community. Sure it may turn away some players but those players were more than likely the types of players we dont want in the community to begin with so shooing them off will improve the games health in the long run as the ppl willing to learn and adapt stay while the entitled and/or incompetant ones leave.
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Shooing 80% of player base away will improve the games health?
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I'm all for making gen progression much more linear provided that killer snowball potential is heavily reduced. Then you get even, consistent match play times for everyone.
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The keyword is "Balanced Around" not all new players are entitled or incompetent. A good chunk of those people will strive to get better by watching content creators, experimenting with perks/strategies, etc. Those are the ppl we want to keep in the community and while they may not be balanced around, over time, they will reach a point where they rest at the top 20% where at that point, the issue should be addressed as game balance issue since they actually put the time and effort to know what they are doing.
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Are you still sure DBD with 6600 players base would live?
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Again, the keyword is "Balance Around". That doesnt mean you kick out 80% of the players. It simply means their performance is not considered in the balancing decisions since they havent invested enough time and/or effort to give valuable analytics for game balance. And no, players arent simply going to leave just because their actions dont count towards analytics.
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yeah the only reason i say hold w and predrop pallets is that is the minimum requirement to extend chases at lower levels...now if the survivors took the time to learn to loop then it is even harder for the killer.
i would put artist, dredge, and skull merchant along with the knight in run to the next loop to avoid mindgames
that is it exactly playing killer is 1 vs 4 and playing solo survivor is usually 1 vs 4 but with additional help depending on your teammates. it is certainly more stressful and harder to play killer because you receive no additional help which is why survivor will usually be ez mode...last night i played with some very good solo players who knew how to loop and rush gens efficiently (some where even doing no perk challenges or didn't bring any addons)
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The same player would have a huge different range of kill rate between using Nurse with 4 slowdown and tunnel off hook, and using Trapper without slowdown refuse to tunnel. The same player would have a huge different range of escape rate between using the old DS,UB,DH,BT with Ranger medkit Styptic/Syringe, or using non-meta perks without item.
I dont even talk about "skill". I only talk about the different between one playing chill and one play sweat like their family depended on it.
Balancing around the top "Nurse 4 slowdown tunnelers" or "4 Ayrun squads" is what kill the game, not improving game health. The game is alive because mid MMR and chill players exist.
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Thats why the analytics should consider the top 20% (or even 30%) not top 5% which is where the "4 slowdown Nurse" and "4 Ayrun squads" are. A good trapper with no slowdowns is for sure going to lose more than a 4 slowdown nurse, but as long as those players are in the top 20%, that means the devs can have a more accurate picture of the limits and potentials of each characters and perks without having the data diluted by "a trapper that doesnt place traps", "a dwight that keeps hiding in lockers as soon as he hears the terror radius" or "a doctor who uses static blast while hes got tinkerer proccd", basic mistakes that no players with a decent amount of experience should be making even if theyre going for a chill build.
Eliminating analytics of such players allow devs to make better balancing decisions that enables experienced players to feel the match is more fair while giving new players something to work towards.
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but killers will be in more chases theroretically to make sure everyone stays injured...and i see a lot more corrupt/no way out/deadlocked/sloppy butcher builds
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Why would I go for chases? Nothing changes from the killer side except that Gen regression and gen kicking no longer exist.
Long Heals "didn't feel good" so it won't be part of the patch but all the gen regression is getting deleted.
Medkits are getting nerfed, CoH is getting obliterated and DH won't be an issue until people get unhooks. But to compensate for that you don't get any ability to reduce generator progress in a meaningful way.
That means the only real value is getting one person out of the game. You will see "more" proxy camping and tunneling (assuming more is even possible).
"more corrupt/no way out/deadlocked/sloppy butcher builds"
Corrupt is kinda dumb after the nerf because you lose the perk on the first down. Deadlock will not become common because it has never been in the shrine. However DL+NWO will likely be meta to the point that it will get nerfed next because nothing else even comes close.
Sloppy is dangerous because you want them to heal. If they dont heal then they just blast the gens.
Without some new perk that is like : you cant work gens while hurt you are playing with fire if they dont heal and instead just blast the generators.
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the other options i see are a pure chase build with lethal pursuer/dead lock/spirit fury/enduring and trying to get a person out as soon as the game begins
that is why i am saying survivors still have the advantage...it is 4 vs 1 as long as the killer allows it
i know you say why go for more chases but you won't be able to defend gens with the new patch as well so you want to get a survivor out as soon as possible and a chase build is the most effective way of doing that...or playing bubba
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