Some feedback on the changes announced for PTB
You reverted the healing nerf to other survivors which is great. And you also buffed pain res regression which is also great and makes the perk not dead. And reverted the nerf to billy! But there are a couple of changes that i wanted to bring up:
Specifically i want to talk about these 2 things:
DEAD HARD
Since reducing the Endurance effect any further would make Dead Hard too finnicky to use, we instead opted to limit the number of times it could be used by requiring a safe unhook to activate the Perk. While this had the intended result of limiting the number of times it appeared in the match (and prevented it from being used in the first chase of the match), some of you pointed out that this new design indirectly encouraged the Killer to chase the unhooked Survivor. This makes a lot of sense; the unhooker may have activated their Dead Hard, but you can be sure that the unhooked Survivor does not have it.
For the update’s release, we have changed Dead Hard to instead activate when you are unhooked or unhook yourself. This way, the unhooked Survivor becomes less of a clear target for the Killer.
This change to dead hard, does not do what you think it does. This still "nerfs" dead hard, but now you SAY that it will encourage people to not tunnel the survivor that was just unhooked, but in reality this change will do the opposite. UNLESS you make a critical change that, when the survivor is healed/does some action (think DS) it deactivates. Because if you don't, then that just means that the next time i chase that survivor, even if i explicitly didn't tunnel them, they will have dead hard.
Because of this, the counter to dead hard still remains the same. It is better for me to proxy camp the hook, and then wait for the survivor to get FULLY unhooked, and then immediately hit them right off the hook, giving them deep wounds. Sure, they'll get a speed boost from the hit, but now i only have to hit them and chase them a single time, and not have to worry about dead hard at all.
This change will STILL encourage me to tunnel people in order to deal with dead hard.
The PROPER way to "nerf" dead hard, without encouraging tunneling is to change it to the following:
While injured, dead hard charges up for 30 seconds. When charged up dead hard becomes active, and lets you do dead hard things. After healing for 1 health state, or being downed, dead hard deactivates. Dead hard now works like Mettle of man (no deep wounds)
This would do 2 things. First, it would encourage me, as a killer, to try and down someone in a chase quickly. It also gives me a "counter" to dead hard, by just stopping chase with someone if i'm taking too long to down them, something i should be doing anyway.
Additionally, it rewards GOOD survivors, who can outlast the killer and win a mind game or 2, with another potential health state. 30 seconds is just short enough, that you only have to win 1 mindgame, and you'll have it. But just short enough that you can't hold w, and predrop pallets (you'll end up losing 1 or 2 pallets before it activates, making it more valuable, plus then the killer can abandon chase if they know what you are doing, and you just wasted 2 pallets.
Lastly, it DISCOURAGES tunneling, because the person that was unhooked will be injured, even if i hard tunnel them, they'll end up getting dead hard most likely between the basekit BT, movement speed, and general pallets/windows. It will actively ENCOURAGE me to go for the unhooker instead.
BOON: CIRCLE OF HEALING
Since this Perk no longer grants the self-heal ability, Circle of Healing found itself in an awkward spot. The altruistic heal speed bonus was nice, but when you crunched the numbers, Circle of Healing rarely provided any benefit. A 50% healing speed bonus would only shave roughly 5 seconds off of a heal, but it’s easy to spend that much time running over to the Boon’s area of effect- and that doesn’t even begin to factor in the time it takes to set up.
With this in mind, we have increased the healing speed bonus on Circle of Healing to 50/75/100% (was 40/45/50%).
While this won’t make setting up or running to the Boon the optimal choice in every situation, we expect this to make it more impactful if the Boon is nearby.
This is not a good idea. CoH release with these numbers, and it was quickly nerfed for obvious reasons. This makes a far away boon simply too strong and basically will make games with 3 gens last even longer, because survivors can basically infinite heal forever. I think with the nerfs to self healing and medkits, having it do 50% healing bonus and show your aura to other survivors to let them know you want a heal is more than enough and i would caution against this change. All this is going to do is make the healing meta even worse.
Comments
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Nurse and blight butcher your proposed dead hard idea (and they are the killers the perk is needed against the most), plus you are basically making it a perk for people who are already great loopers to have an extra advantage.
This makes a far away boon simply too strong and basically will make games with 3 gens last even longer, because survivors can basically infinite heal forever.I think what BHVR is trying to do is clear - you need to weaken up the survivors as killer before the 3 gen. If there are four survivors with CoH active and the killer is on a 3 gen, killer loses. Given the regression perks have been nerfed killers won't be able to hold the 3 gen like they used to, so survivors can rather quickly deal with it.
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Nurse and blight should not be brought into the equation when discussing core gameplay mechanics or other changes. They should be dealt with separately. We shouldn't be nerfing or buffing perks because of a single killer.
Additionally, the perks don't make 3 gens happen, the 3 gen itself makes it happen. It just makes games last longer. But regardless, the point was to increase the power of a killer injuring a survivor. But when survivors can heal each other in 8 seconds, this basically eliminates that. And don't think that every single game won't have a CoH in it now...
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They could make dh stack with basekit bt if that's problem. Personally I use always ds to clear that deep wound so you still has to counter dh normally if you tunnel me. But it's usually not good play I have basically 4 health states.
Meanwhile now it's actually worth to go after unhooker he has 2 health state and no dh. So this is best change they could made to dh. With pr buff/nerf it's also rewarded to go after different target.
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Its only worth it if they haven't been hooked. As far as i can see, once you are hooked, you keep your dead hard forever until you use it. UNLESS they haven't mentioned it, but it works like DS where it deactivates if you do something, or heal.
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Hahaha. This reads as a I love both sides of the changes.
What it actually is, is a completely 100 percent survivor main moaning that not only was his healing nerf reverted, which is huge, and unfair since nothing of killers was reverted, ....but
Wants dead hard and coh buffed too.
See yourself to the door delusional friend. Pain res isn't dead? Next joke please. Half the time we ain't even getting a pain res hook.
So basically keep all killer nerfs and revert survivors nerfs. Yeahhh man such a good idea.
The healing revert was dumb. 20s was fine. To fully go back on everything you said just looks incompetent while yet again leaving killers fully nerfed. Your game is gonna be dead faster than you realise if killers continue to suffer. Survivors can revolt all they want but if you ain't got no killer to play against, then you ain't got no game.
You had OG ruin for years. Cob, new ruin, pain res DMS.
Now killers have nothing other than the budget regression nobody used
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You... didn't read my post did you?
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Where can I find these proposed changes from the PTB?
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Dead Hard:
Why do people think that it should be an Anti-Tunnel Perk? It just got a requirement in form of being unhooked, but this does not mean that it should be Anti-Tunnel. It just means that the Killer will only have to deal with DH when they got at least one Hook on that Survivor. Which means that at least during the first chase, they dont have to care about DH AND the Survivor only gets DH when the Killer already got pressure (aka forcing Survivors off Gens into altruistic Actions).
CoH:
You cannot really compare this version of CoH with the release version. Yes, it is 100% again, but you completely ignore that there is no self-healing at all. With 100% the Perk is at least not shockingly bad, but still not really worth running. (Seriously, I would rather bring We Will Make It, since most of the time you heal others after an Unhook and it does not require Setup-Time)
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I'm not saying dead hard should be an anti-tunnel perk. I'm saying it shouldn't be countered by tunneling, and/or it should be completely reworked.
A well timed dead hard is, even after these changes, the absolute most powerful thing a survivor can do in this game. Because it can cost the killer the entire game. You do a chase, you think you are about to get a down, maybe get your pain res, or dms or some other thing. And then BAM, dead hard. Now you get NOTHING AND your chase is now extended for another health state.
Mathematically speaking, no other perk in the game can waste as much time for a killer as dead hard can.
Because of this, it is always a good idea to play around the idea that the survivor might have dead hard. Thus, dead hard should be redesigned in a way, that encourages you to not tunnel someone, while encouraging you to play well, while also only giving it to survivors who play well (no more free health state for no work).
Even without the self healing, boons are too easy for survivors to put up and too hard for killers to get rid of. You have to remember that there is only 1 killer, so yeah, it takes survivors 14 seconds to put a boon. But there are 4 of them. So that's only 14 seconds of a total 56 seconds of time that the whole team has. And it probably takes the killer just as long, if not longer, even if they know where the boon is to remove it, when there is only 1 killer. So the time cost to them is 4x the cost of the survivors.
So, yeah, it takes 2 survivors 16 seconds (total of 32 seconds) to heal an injury plus some extra to find each other. But the big problem is, it also takes killers around 30 seconds to land a hit too. So again, same time cost, but killers time costs 4x the survivors. Even without circle of healing, this is still pretty close in time efficiency. When CoH comes into play, now it'll take 2 survivors 8 seconds (16 seconds total) to heal, and on top of that, they get to see each other's aura. So now you aren't looking for each other anymore, you just know where each other is at. This means you'll likely be able to heal yourself, for more time efficiency, than it took the killer to earn that hit. All while using a perk that can only be countered by the killer also spending more time than it took the survivor to set up the perk.
if boons were single use, and shattered hope was base kit, then sure, maybe i'd agree with you, but since they aren't it doesn't play.
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Yes but that means less tunneling when still 4-5 gens left when tunneling mostly is problem and not as neccesary. If killer spread his hooks at beginning of the game but later tunnels someone out that is fair game usually 3 or less gens left. So this reduces the most problematic tunneling but fair tunneling will remain and that is fine.
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That's not going to make tunneling happen at 4-5 gens. Its still going to happen immediately if someone doesn't show their exhaustion perk to me in a chase. I'm going to assume they have dead hard, and just hard tunnel them as soon as i hook them.
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Not too mention they are still ducking murdering COB and OC. ffs
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But don’t deal with survivors too quick before the 3 gen, like with say tunneling. That would be a bad thing. Be nice and spread pressure. Win at 2 gens. Not before. Not after.
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What then when they hit you with ds and use dh anyway?
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