One of the Corn Field Maps, 4 close gen spawns
FOrget the name of the map, Cornfield one with like the slaughter house in it.
I have had this map 3 times today, and the back stretch where the shack is. On both sides of it is a gen, and then on that same wall there is another in the next jungle gym over, AND another right outside it by the hill....
This should not happen. This makes it almost impossible to do the last gen if your team sucks and 3 gens you. This shouldnt be a thing having them side by side by side. i could stand in the middle one and see all 4 almost, at least 3 of them... ######### to that... I think there needs to be a minimum distance apart code or something...
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You're talking about Rancid Abattoir. First let me say : maps where multiple three gens are possible are potentially fair maps.
Maps with only one viable 3 gen location are not fair maps. Let's talk about Dead Dog saloon. That's a fair map right? No it isn't. Why not? Because everybody knows there is always a three gen on one side and as soon as the killer loses that they are going to lose the game. Azarov's is another clearly broken map because you lose the second the three gen is broken on both sides of the map. In one sense nothing really changed when they redesigned the map.
What makes a map fair?
- They need to be small - around 9000m²
- They need to not have tons of interlinked tiles (this is what disqualifies Coal Tower from being fair)
- They need to have a fair number of pallets (which disqualifies "the game"). As a point of reference Abattoir has about 9 pallets overall. That's a very fair number considering every one is basically : break this or the chase is over.
- The main building needs to not be completely busted (Garden of Joy and Badham are perfect examples of what is broken)
- There needs to be multiple generators that are "close enough" where the killer can legitimately patrol them. Most of the maps fail in this aspect but it is also a direct result of map size.
Could you imagine for example a map that was 11,000m² but all the generators were in a small concentrated area? The killer would never leave the "gen zone". That's a perfect example of what would be broken in favor of the killer. RPD on the other hand is a pretty good example of what is broken favoring the survivors.
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well, that's your idea of what you think is balanced. Pretty sure small maps with 8 pallets like Wreckers' Yard are not balanced at all and very killer sided (which will change a bit with the addition of more pallets in 6.7), and still have the accessible basement in the middle of the map practically serving the killer any time.
Small maps should have exactly more connected tiles and pallets to suppress the killer's ability to easily supervise generators, even more so when dealing with high mobility killers, while large maps should have fewer pallets and fewer connected tiles (and you can merge windows with pallets to try to balance the small amount of each other, exactly where gideon went wrong).
This story that all maps must be small or open completely takes away the game design creativity from the game, forgetting that there are killers who manage to benefit from specific scenarios (open, indoor, medium or small)
And I also totally disagree about generators.
If you do the math and somehow manage to standardize the average gen repair time between Soloq and SWF, then you have more opportunity for chasers to occur naturally over a longer period of time.
Keeping that in mind, since the game mixes SoloQ and SWF, the best fix I see is to make 5 of the current 7 gens >SOLO GENS<< (50%+, precisely 70%), which would force 3 SOLO gens to be repaired by survivors, and separates the gens correctly on the map more (specially the solo ones from each other), in addition to rework bnps (or remove)
So you create more space for the killer to invest in what is the intended game-design, the >>chases<< that will be much more worthwhile from the middle to the end of the game, even more so because the initial focus of the survivors will be to try to repair soon these 3 gens, which will take some time, and if they are left for the end, it will be easier for the killer to capitalize on the flaw
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-"Pretty sure small maps with 8 pallets like Wreckers' Yard are not balanced at all and very killer sided"
Wreckers Yard is pretty much the definition of a fair map.
You have plenty of space to run loops.
You have the Shack as the "main building" which has always been a strong tile.
You have plenty of vaults located around the map to delay the use of pallets.
Almost every pallet in the map causes the event: "break this or the chase is over."
Most people don't want "fair" they want it to favor their side. Hawkins was an incredibly fair map overall but most people won't be able to tell you why : it had many pallets that gave the killer the chance for a mindgame.
The problem with a map like "the game" is that it has 25 pallets that usually end the chase if the killer doesn't break the pallet.
Otz did a challenge where he was not allowed to break any pallets on that map. But what if he tried the same challenge and people realized mid game he wasn't allowed to break any pallets? The path to the basement would become a "free" zone where the killer could not go.
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sure, unsafe pallets can be used to balance large maps too if you don't want to do a pretty good and safe tiles distribution correctly with pallets, which would solve the problem of gideon (as a kind of compensation for having more usable tiles)
But Wreckers Yard is far from being the definition of a perfect map, it's exactly the opposite of gideon, you have a tiny map in which the central build will also always be the basement and the few pallets it has, most are unsafe, including the horrible tiles (that do not compensate), devs even remade some of the bad ones that were on autohaven maps, like the u tiles. I would only find this map balanced, as I said, if there were more pallets at least usable tiles, or open the shack windows again, since it functions as an main building too, allowing a loop that can be both time consuming and super risky with the basement there, accessible to killer (more or less the same as with hadonfield main building)
Well, at least the clone of the Wreckers yard cornfield version has the tractors and the tiles connected in small area, and it still has the plantation that doesn't allow a good view of the map
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-"and the few pallets it has, most are unsafe"
Do you know what an unsafe pallet is? It has a long side and a short side. The "car" loop going anticlockwise around the main building of Badham is an unsafe loop. It also happens to be a fair one.
Most of the loops on WY are safe loops with Jungle Gyms. You can sand over a pallet and the killer can't hit you.
If you want to make the arguement that Nurse and Blight should never play this map then I might agree. But this map is actually pretty fair to a killer like : Pig and all the old M1 killer cast.
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WY have a lot of tiles outdated, I'm not talking about the classic 4 walls that now can't even be repeated in atuohaven maps I'm talking about the structure of labs/tiles in which the pallet is easily circumvented by either side (don't have long wall in one side, it's open, i think its called lame walls), which no longer makes sense with anti loop and fast blood lust killers, plus of course high tier killers, specially in a tiny open map
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WY is about just as fair map, as current Garden of Joy.
Who could possibly think that tiny map with no strong structures, open dead zones and at best a few gyms is fair map? Well. Obviously someone that only wants his side to win all the time.
I absolutely see it. Next time we will hear that Midwitch is actually a fair map....
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There was a time mid was a favorite pick of survivors - you seem to forget that.
Mid is a hard map for solo players to win but I regularly win in a SWF as long as we're not playing vs Nurse/Blight or a killer who picked that map via an offering and has the game weighted in their favor.
GoJ has a broken main building that reeks of 2016-2018 building design. Does anyone want to make the argument that the old Iron Works of Misery window was fair? It wasn't. In what way is it ok to have three nearly similar power windows on the same building that can be chained together?
-"WY have a lot of tiles outdated"
DBD has a lot of outdated killers. Most of them in fact do not have viable anti loop and are also defeated by shift+W.
I would love for DBD to have the rule : only killers with a movement power can play maps larger than 9000m². You could play all the "bad" killers and actually have fun as long as the map isn't too RNG weighted. Clown map and Coal Tower are two examples of maps where sometimes there is just too much good stuff for survivors to use all in one spot.
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Ah. So I see. Midwitch is not just fair. It's survivor sided. Got it. No point in continuing any more discussions about map balance with you.
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You're being unreasonable as those are not the words I said. You are drawing conclusions I did not make.
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This one was on the Thompson House CW map. I think it's just RNG.
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If you look closely you can find many maps that have a "4 gen" pocket.
One of the swamp maps usually has a "6 gen" pocket.
I know you probably won't agree but RNG like this makes the game "ok" for some of the older terrible killers.
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