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Survivors getting continuous buffs per patch, killers get nerfed, nerfed, nerfed
Yes, I main survivor but this is really dumb to continue this path you're taking. We already got enough on our plates but to continuously nerfing killers is stupid. We're now going to have to deal with hook camping and slugging killers because you turn them into weak sauce so they're taking desperate measures for a singular kill which only leads to more problems as soloQ will add another fly to the plagued ridden corpse.
Stop being scared of buffing killers. You let Twitter control your game balance and that's the reason why this game is getting worse every update.
Comments
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POV: The DH nerf, the CoH nerf and Med-Kits nerfs are actually buffs.
Keep coping, I guess.
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These aren't even bad nerfs and they got buffed in PTB too so it's easy for me to adapt. I can still heal myself with a single medkit. The nerfs to killers are far worse than you'll think but your 'coping' is pretty much projecting.
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On what planet, does hard-capping DH uses to 6 per match, be a buff? Let alone medkit/selfcare??
And no Overzealous is not going to break meta.
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... There are other perks besides Dead Hard? Hello? Lithe or Sprint Burst??
Gen rushing is still going to be a problem who cares if medkits getting nerfed when you have toolboxes hahahaha!!
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Yeah and those perks are of zero issue, nor involved in the patch so why bring them up? And toolboxes and genrush is never going away to just kill them faster than they can repair.
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I'm already adapting - I've stopped paying attention to who I am hooking. If it bleeds it goes on a hook. Doesn't matter if the surv been there a moment ago.
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Why weren't you playing like that to begin with, its way more fun to attack survivors indiscriminately. Not your fault someone couldn't leave the killer radius in time.
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DH can't be used in first chase. It can't be used more than twice. It deactivates upon any activation. It still causes Exhaustion.
CoH lost the single most powerful effect in the game.
Med-Kits can't heal you fast nor can they heal you 5 times. 24 second heals are no joke.
You can think the nerfs weren't enough but to not call them hard nerfs is actually lunacy. Killer got some major buffs this patch.
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... There are other perks besides Dead Hard? Hello? Lithe or Sprint Burst??
There's also tons of different perks besides the ones that got hit on the killer side.
Seriously, why are people acting like nerfs to Pain Res are the same as a basekit nerf? If the perk is that damn ubiquitous, isn't it basically the killer equivalent of DH?
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No there aren't because they all got nerfed.Jolt/surge is the new peta for gen defense,a perk only m1 killers can use,that may or may not hit a gen,for what 8%? Pain res is to situational,what if you don't get a scurge hook?What if the gen you are hitting doesn't have a lot of progress because they did it in your face or it got blocked by deadlock,its hard to justifying running it.Pop can only be used by blight or other high mobility killers as an aggressively mid perk.DMS got nerfed a while back due to its synergy with pain res,and it did not receive any compensation since it works on two killers.Thana is in the same boat,it got buffed when no one asked for it and got hit with a harsher nerf than its original self for no reason(only good on 2 killers).Eruption was a good perk that got overbuffed for no reason once again just to be gutted.
The only strong gen perks remaining are Deadlock and Corrupt intervention,meanwhile CoH and Dh are still serviceable(reset zone abused by swf dead in solo)(Dh can be used twice per game instead of 3 times still strong).Medkits still serve the same purpose of healing yourself faster and alone,you just can bring a 3 heal medkit anymore big deal.Also if you truly believe Dh is dead than dw,other exhaustion perks exist that are on a similar level,meanwhile regression got gutted.
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The DH "nerf" is barely a nerf. You can use it in two of your chases instead of three. You can still use it for endgame saves and bodyblocking at the exit gates. You can still force lose-lose situations at pallets. That happening once can be game-changing against weaker killers depending on perk loadout (i.e., killer is running any regression perks that activate on hook/down, which is most of them).
CoH and Medkits nerfs are valid, but only for solo queue.
Any team on coms can easily coordinate a heal and take advantage of both medkit altruistic speed buffs and faster CoH times.
I actually don't think anybody's going to run CoH anymore, maybe not even in SWFs, but gameplay for M1s after this update is going to be complete dog####.
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Pulsar is the ScottJund of the forums. He's the cool killer main that wants to make sure all the survivors have a really fun time. He beats comp teams with Clown no perks/add ons so anyone who has anything to say about balance just needs to git gud and eat, sleep, and breathe DbD
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In low MMR people mostly weren't ######### and I viewed my role as a killer was there to make matches tense and fun.
Things changed.
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While I wouldn't call these changes major buffs to killers, I do think some people are underestimating the nerf to medkits. I have been having so many matches lately with survivors running crazy medkits, undoing the damage I have done so quickly. I am not sure CoH should have returned to 100%, but those nerfs to medkits will definitely be impactful.
Sloppy will for sure be one of the new meta perks.
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The difference between me and Scott is that Scott is chill and doesn't sweat.
I enjoy sweating, hence why I've started to dabble in tourneys and scrim nights.
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I think CoH could meet in the middle and be 75%.
Still impactful but not crazy.
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Yeah I would definitely agree with that. Obviously even at 100% it won't be as efficient anymore, because now you always have two survivors running to the healing zone of CoH, which also almost always wastes time. But 75% would probably be the sweet spot.
But we'll see. The Medkit nerf is still the most impactful change in this update, along with the nerfs to CoB and Overcharge.
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Medkits also run out MUCH faster now.
DH can't be used in the first chase at ALL. That's a HUGE nerf. It also goes away if you whiff it, another HUGE nerf.
Not every Survivor player is a God at hitting the most optimal DH plays. Most of them are not capable of doing that.
The perk is dead for the casual Survivor and very nerfed for the more experienced ones.
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The thing is gens are already flying with the current meta and after the nerfs with no defense been buffed its pretty reasonable to assume gens will go even faster.
On top of that the healing nerfs were reverted which was supposed to help slowdown with gen defence been gutted.
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Yeah people are seriously underestimating how fast the gens are going to go with Call of Brine neutered
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The current issue in the game right now for me isnt heal speeds, gens fly. Its hard to keep up, and gen slowdown is being nerfed over and over.
Because we have put in so many hours and are so familiar with the game we can predict to a certain level.
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"Hello fellow survivor mains. Yes, I play the survivor on dead by daylight all the time. I like the tea bagging and flashlight clicking. Totally 100% survivor main."
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No there aren't because they all got nerfed
No, they didn't. Stop staring yourself blind on gen regression. You've got Plaything/Pentimento, Devour Hope, No Way Out, Remember Me, Gift of Pain, Floods of Rage, Deadlock, Bamboozle, NOED, I'm All Ears, Iron Maiden, Lethal Pursuer, Leverage, Make Your Choice, and so, so many other perks that are perfectly serviceable but don't see use because everyone got so incredibly obsessed with gen regression.
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Perks only serve as band-aid fixes to the true problems plagueing Dead By Daylight. The most egregious issue has to be the overall godawful map design in this game however. Just take a look at the every single new map release or rework, they're all objectively bad.
Gens get done so quickly because the map is either too large or too packed up with pallets and survivor sided loops which slows down the game massively. If the killer could navigate and punish survivors far more efficiently we wouldn't have this genrush issue.
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Not for those who don't use it to begin with
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The perks you are describing only became meta or usable by lack of competition.Perks don't really matter until you verse strong teams,the kind that bodyblock at the right time and do all gens in 5 minutes.
Plaything,DevHop,Rember me,Gift of Pain,I'm all ears,Iron maiden,Leverage,Make your choice,Remember me are terrible perks,this tells me you either don't play killer or are just running meme builds.
Floods of Rage is only competitive on nurse.Bamboozle is indeed strong but only m1 killers can use it(half the roster).
NOED and Deadlock(i would also add corrupt) are indeed strong perks,but it feels like all killers have left.No way out gets outshadowed by noed which both allows you to conclude a strong game while also providing a comback mechaninc (since its uselss if you are losing)
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It's really, really not much of a nerf at all. It'll still be the most-used exhaustion perk by a mile. Mark my words.
Most of the worst situations that Dead Hard can create come out in the endgame or very close to it. If you eat a DH in the first chase, that sucks, but the truth is that survivors are a lot more sloppy with it in their first chase, anyway, and the real trouble comes when you've got one gen left and you're running Jolt, PR, Pop, and/or Eruption, and you can either take a pallet to the face or swing.
Every single regression perk got completely decimated, while the most-used meta survivor perk since the game was released got a slap on the wrist that won't help in most real-world situations, all of the other exhaustion perks are still completely viable, and the healing nerfs got reversed.
I'm a Michael main, and I've been trying out builds that don't use any of the nerfed perks at all, and my kill rates have dropped dramatically. And I haven't even seen one medkit today, meaning healing will be the same.
Sure, there are the cheesy 3-gen T3 builds that just don't work anymore since they relied so heavily on the gen-kicking perks, but even most of his mid-tier builds have become unreliable since I can't even run just one of the regression perks and expect to get any value out of it. CoB had mediocre information and just okay regression, but it was worth a perk slot since you might get some value out of it. PR will not be worth running since you'll realistically get an average of 10-20% out of it four times (maybe 25% once, 7% twice, and 15% once), and that's assuming you're spreading hooks out (meaning, not getting any kills).
I'm becoming a Nurse main. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put away the controller, bust out the mouse and keyboard, and just practice playing Nurse.
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I can't even believe how easy it is to avoid flashlights with a mouse. Those things are useless now.
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Weren't you also the person who was so upset about DH that you were just tunneling everyone off of hook? Or was that someone else?
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Well, I haven't been (unless it's been otherwise convenient), because the PTB doesn't run on Linux, but, yes, I think it would be a good idea to do that once it hits live servers.
Look, maybe I'm madder about this than I should be. Like you said, I can always just tunnel people off of hook.
Or I could just play Nurse.
See? I still have plenty of options. I guess I'm just upset that survivors can cry on the forums for a week and get all of their measly nerfs halfway reverted, while killer perks get destroyed every time there's an update, and nothing is ever done about that. It just doesn't seem fair.
Maybe because it's not. Neither is Nurse. I'll learn to deal with it.
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Regarding killer nerfs, isn't that because they want the kill rate to be a certain percent on average?
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We're now going to have to deal with hook camping and slugging killers because you turn them into weak sauce
i joined the game around when Clown came out and have watched Content Creators since the very beginning.
can we finally stop acting like camping and slugging (and tunneling) weren’t there since release? No one gets forced to do these strategies and the argument that certain gameplay changes shouldn’t happen bc otherwise killers will start doing these is ridiculous.
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nice try...get off your burner account Scott
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I started playing DBD since the Plague. When the only Gen defense were Ruin and Corrupted intervention. While Gen took 80sec, old DH and DS/Un combo. Syringe that instant 2 health state.
And saying its not playable for Killer now.
This is the result of Killers being heavily relied on late 2022 Gen slowdown.
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The CoH and DH nerfs are huge.
I’ve been playing without slowdown for the past few days to get used to having next to none next patch, and it isn’t too bad honestly. The hardest part of it is dealing with an early game DH or survivors healing straight away with CoH and med kits. All of which are being nerfed.
If they did nerf killer too much this patch, I’m sure they’ll adjust them later.
To be fair, that wasn’t really because killers weren’t used to slowdown it was because 99% of survivors were horrible at the game back then.
Stick the current survivor player base back then with double pallets, pallet vacuum, OG Dead Hard, and all that and killers would never have had a chance unless you were Nurse.
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Yeah I think what they mean is they had a pretty successful run with the gen kick meta and now things are gonna be challenging again.
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A fellow Clown-chapter arrival!
I also joined right before Clown!
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LMAO Forreal.
It's the title choice for me. 😂
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Entity is trying to see where is the buff in Medkit nerf, Coh nerf and DH nerf.
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LMAO this is great
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Meta and usable are drastically different things, and no perk ever becomes 'usable' through removal of alternatives. No matter how much other perks get nerfed, for example, Red Herring will never be a good, worthwhile perk.
Plaything,DevHop,Rember me,Gift of Pain,I'm all ears,Iron maiden,Leverage,Make your choice,Remember me are terrible perks,this tells me you either don't play killer or are just running meme builds.
I do play killer. I also play survivor though, so my standards for what is a 'bad perk' seem to be considerably different from yours, considering survivors have such bangers as the aforementioned Red Herring, or No Mither, or Up the Ante, or Slippery Meat, or Plunderer's Instinct, or Ace in the Hole, or Calm Spirit, or Left Behind, or Sole Survivor, Autodidact, Breakout, Power Struggle, Corrective Action, Visionary, Technician...
Lots of these perks are trash and not worth using. Some of them will hardly ever fire, some of them don't give any value when they do fire. This is extremely common among survivor perks, but significantly more rare among killer perks. Does that mean all killer perks are fantastic? No, of course not. Some are truly just worse than others.
But just because Desperate Measures, at max, gives only 2% more healing speed than Botany Knowledge does 100% of the time doesn't mean Desperate Measures itself is bad. It still generates very consistent value, and can spike to strong value. It is worth using, even if Botany Knowledge is pretty objectively a better pick.
Now, for survivors, their perks are much more directly comparable, since survivors are all just reskins of one another.
But if there's a killer perk that's just pretty unconditionally best-in-slot to such a point that it makes you think other, perfectly serviceable perks are -unusable-, across the plethora of different killers with different playstyles, then don't you think that's indicative of a problem?
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No, the idea was that they were going to get rid of the gen regression perks, and the new meta would be about the slower healing speeds and the removal of extra health states via DH and Medkits replacing gen regression.
Survivors threw a fit, and they got their healing speed and their DH back, but the killer perks (all of them; every gen regression perk there ever was) remain nerfed.
It was wrong of me to call those nerfs "measly". A better word would have been "reasonable". It still would have been a hard change for killers that needed gen regression to get the time they need to secure kills against competent survivors, but killers had something to play for.
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You are just wrong.Killers are ridden with situation perks that seem better than they actually are.No one is using Iron maiden or remember me in a serious game to win.I would argue after the next patch goes through the META perks(MOST EFFECTIVE TACTICS AVAIABLE),not strong or fun,will be in abundance for survivors compared to killers.
Killers meta perks are:
Noed,DL,CI,Sloppy,no way out.You could also argue for Pop,Bamb,Lethal,STBFL but they aren't quite as strong as they are fun.And then there are a lot of situation perks that are good on 2 killers,or that seem better than they actually are.
On the other side however:
OtR,UB,Adren,Deli,Prove, Reassurance,Sprint burst,lithe,Distortion,WoO,For the people,Resilience,Decisie strike as VERY powerfull,top of the notch options.If you play solo queue then Kindread,and bond are amazing.Aditionaly although not the best strong options can be found in BT,Balanced,Overcome,Will make it,We're gonna live forever,Streatwise,Built to last,Shadowstep and CoH,Lucky break.
I also believe Dh will still be used,but it will still be an A tier perk at worst after the changes.
You CANNOT argue that killers have worse perks at the moment compared to survivors.
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You completely missed the point. Why are you so obsessed with min-maxing that you write off any perk that isn't the absolute incontestable universal best-pick as being immediately non-viable?
And then you pad out the survivors' meta list (not even just viability, but -meta- picks) with such bangers as Reassurance, Deliverance, Windows of Opportunity, For the People and Decisive Strike.
Have you ever, at any point, attempted to run any killer perk that didn't get handed to you by a youtube video with a big red arrow in the thumbnail?
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You are making bold assumptions about my playstyle,i don't follow the meta spewed out by content creators. I seldom use gen kicking perks regardless of their viability,i didn't use pop back in the day and have never used CoB or Overcharge.But at the same time im not going to use Leverage,Remember me , I'm all ears or Coup only because Otz made a video about it.These are all terrible perks,and you not admitting it shows your bias,its like saying no mither is good because you can't get slugged,and you have deadhard(or used to have) vs instadown killers,its a stretch to say its good.
Regarding your min-maxing point,the survivors i am facing don't lose any sleep over running the sweatiest builds out there,but as killer we are slowing losing the ability to match theirs with every patch.You guys kept all your strong perks to a decent degree or got better ones,while the killer meta has been going down for years.
Also how aren't the survivor perks mentioned beyond strong?
WoO gives you consistent information at a glance,it turns mediocre loopers into great ones,and allows experienced players to always have a resource to use vs a killer.I would say its a necessary perk in solo queue.
For the People is effective versus a tunneling killer,you know the most efficient strategy to win games.The downside is non existent when the killer cannot afford to go for you.(On top of its endgame capabilities)
Deliverance,as long as you play safe and can coordinate with your team for someone else to take agro and for you to unhook,allows you to complete destroy a killers pressure,since no one needs to unhook you,on top of destroying killer endgame strategies.
Decesive is still strong,it seems to me like you are the one contributing to the echo chamber,unable to form your own oppinion.It doesn't let you make free distance,and can't be used in endgame.Still strong vs tunneling killers,once again a very prominent strategy,if you have a team bodyblocking for you this perk can be especially brutal to face.Its strength is in it's pairing with Dh.
Also how isn't reassurance complety bonkers?.They took Kinship,and made it better in every single way.
I'm not even affected by the nerfs as the only slowdown i use are DL and CI anyway,since the rest are inconsistent or not my playstyle and yet even though this patch is a buff for me,i am able to objectively look at the fact that killer is being treated unfairly.
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These are all terrible perks
Not really keen on accepting that from someone who thinks there's only 3 good killer perks and they're all getting nerfed this patch. Did you ever consider that maybe your perspective is a bit warped because you're used to overtuned perks?
Also how aren't the survivor perks mentioned beyond strong?
Windows of Opportunity does almost nothing for a competent player. For the People is insanely situational and, in probably 49/50 matches will not benefit the survivors. Deliverance has way too many hooks and eyes for a relatively minor benefit that's further cut down outside of well-coordinated swiffer play, and Decisive Strike is the most egregious of them all.
DS got trimmed neatly into the position of anti-tunnel to the point where it's effectively in the killer's control, 100%. The -killer- has to put in effort to get this perk to fire. And now, when it does fire, its effect is pretty much negligible. So not only does it very rarely come into play, its effect is also terrible.
'But you can pair it with other endurance!'
Now I'm sinking two perk slots into being able to do something when the killer tunnels, leaving me with only half a build if the killer doesn't! What a steal!
Also how isn't reassurance complety bonkers?.They took Kinship,and made it better in every single way.
And what was Kinship's value, exactly? How good was that perk?
Seriously, stop comparing perks amongst each other and assess them on their own merits. Reassurance, in this regard, is not a strong perk just because Kinship is worse. Reassurance has limited value in very specific situations. It could've been good, but then it got gutted before it hit live in order to protect camping.
i am able to objectively look at the fact that killer is being treated unfairly.
Every single person crying about killer nerfs also thinks themselves objective when they do so, including the folks that cry about survivor stuff being OP while posting 2-gen 4Ks as 'proof'. Probably about 90% of them claim to be 'top MMR', and a similar number will probably answer that killer has never once been buffed.
The game is way more balanced than people make it out to be. It may not be balanced to a plateau that people like, but it is balanced.
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The game is balanced around tunneling.And survivors have a plethora of perks to combat it,on top of having basekit endurance and the ability to bodyblock.Half the maps in the game feel like the were designed by the most diehard survivor main,that can only last longer than 3 seconds in a chase when they predrop a god pallet.
I won't dissagree that dbd can be balanced in it's current state.An oni on coal tower for example is 100% a balance scenario for both sides,where the better party will come up on top.But then you look at half the killer roaster and you can't help but cry when the game is designed for 5 killers to thrive,for another 5 to do decently well,meanwhile every other killer is left in the dust.
The live changes are a reflection of that.Blight doesn't need to hold a 3gen but the changes to Dh actively buff him.It's depressing on both ends.But playing Clown and running Remember me of all perks,when the poor killer struggles against exhaustion perks,he can't pressure heals,he can't pressure gens,and now he can't even use pain res to circumvent his lack of mobility.
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If only game's objective was to collect hooks and not kill survivors, maybe then the entire idea of play for fun would make more sense for more people.
It's nice that someone can go perkless Trapper and kick some pros but apparently there also people who struggle in game even with decent killers and those people get the worst treatment instead of being motivated to improve. Oh and as op said, it's Twitter opinion that is considered the most during balance review, this forum is clearly just for venting purposes and nothing else.
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You're missing the point.
There are still lots of excellent killer perks, and most of them are pretty decent at accomplishing whatever it is they're trying to accomplish. But those don't help low-tier killers or killers with little-to-no mobility who needed some kind of gen regression meta.
A lot of those killers still would've had a hard time with no gen regression perks left, but maybe the anti-healing meta would have balanced it out. But there's no anti-healing meta anymore, and Dead Hard got a placebo nerf instead of the real nerf it was finally supposed to get, so those killers are left high and dry.
Leaving the OC/CoB combo out of it (which could be overpowered at times), CoB, Eruption, and Pop were all in good places before the coming changes. None of them were great on their own, but they had synergy, and you could use three perk slots to have a chance at doing heavy damage to a gen at least a couple of times a game, plus maybe some mediocre information on the side (I say mediocre because you could easily do half a gen before seeing a skill check a lot of times, and if you hit a great skill check, CoB gave no information, and there were plenty of times when a gen I kicked 30 seconds ago suddenly popped out of nowhere without a loud noise notification).
The only change CoB and OC needed were to not stack with each other.
Leaving a handful of regression perks in the weakened state they already were would have allowed them to be a viable playstyle even as mid-tier perks, but now they're all C and D-tier garbage. And survivors kept their favorite perk at the end of the day.
tl;dr:
No amount of Starstruck and NOED being good killer perks helps Ghostface keeps three gens from popping by the time he's gotten two hooks.
The issue isn't that these were "the only good killer perks", the issue is that they were the only good regression perks left. Imagine if Dead Hard was given its original, intended nerf, and every other exhaustion perk was given a 300 second cooldown on top of it. Every single perk in the entire category is gone.
And that was the point, but the meta that was supposed to replace them was stomped before it was ever given a chance.
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I think if you go back up the thread, you'll notice that what you are talking about is actually a left turn in the conversation somewhere. The OP complains survivors got buffed and killers got nerfed. People point out that survivors got nerfed, to which the OP replied 'but survivors have other perks'.
So do killers.
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