Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Idea to make the tunnel more difficult
The tunneling problem cannot be addressed with Perks
So this is my idea
Once the survivors tunnel by the killer and hit by any means The following effects will occur:
-Gets the effects of Incapacitated (can't do anything), blindness, and Hindered (20%) for 60 seconds
-One random generator is fixed automatically
Regardless of whether the survivors exploited this or not What do you think of this idea?
If you have anything to prevent survivors from using this to their advantage, write it down
-And thanks
Comments
-
How the system can distinguish if this is tunnel or not?
Im sometimes hooking one surv 2 times in a row, bit never kill anyone before 8 hooks, is this tunneling?
4 -
until he rises To take "Conspicuous Actions"
0 -
So if i could not find one persone through most of the trial, and 3 survs was on hooks 6 times total, and now i have found this 4th survivor, hooked him once, and as soon as i heard he was unhooked, i went for him to hook him 2nd time because hooking anyone else would means killing someone, and i will not let him to do "conspicous action" - i tunneled him?
3 -
I'm not a developer to discuss with me, so it's just a suggestion that they might find a solution for
The system may act as the only survivor standing and thus not consider the tunnel
0 -
"-One random generator is fixed automatically"
Oh boy, I can't wait to have to deal with people purposefully getting into a chase immediately after hook so they can get an entire gen.
Post edited by Rizzo on5 -
Thus, the problem of genrush and tunnel and camping was solved🤣
1 -
You must not have experienced being tunneled into a dead zone
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Why not just remove the hook? that would be infinitely better than this pseudo cheating.
1 -
This is your idea, so im asking You
5 -
'm not a developer to discuss with me
but it's your idea, so you better think about it and be ready to defend it.
4 -
Being tunneled into a dead zone?
Maybe don't go into deadzone? Killer is chasing you, you decide where you go. If you went into deadzone, it's on you.
2 -
No way this is legit lol
1 -
Well, the killer is hook you in the dead zone, and then he back to tunnels you
0 -
Well, the answer is in the other line
0 -
No, it is not.
You said "tunnel" i asked You what does tunnel means and provide a situation, and then You turn back. So either You think about words You are saying or not.
Im gonna ask again.
If i hooked 3 survivors 2 times each for total of 6 hooks, and then i hooked last survivor two times in a row do that noone was killed before 8 hooks.
Was i tunneling?
And what should be the algorithm to determine what tunnel is.
You are talking about tunneling, so explain what You have in mind when saying "tunneling".
1 -
Well, the tunnel is an effective strategy, as you will only face 3 survivors, and this makes it much easier to pressure them
So the tunnel is focused on one survivor (let's say it's Bill) and trying to get him out as quickly as possible (all this once the survivors save Bill from the hook)
You say that what if all the survivors were on a hook, and Bill was put on a hook until he reached the second stage, but he did not take any Conspicuous Actionsyet, so is this considered a tunnel?
Fortunately there was a system in the PTB where he was known as "The Last Standing" where if he was down it was game over.
It can be used so that the game does not consider that you have tunnel Bill because he is (the last one standing) and you have nothing to do but kill him
0 -
So, if im playing fair, and did not kill anyone before 8h so i streched the game as much as possible and did not removed one person as soon as possible, so i was not tunneling in your definition, and yet survs will get one free generator done because your idea.
Then I was tunneling or not? In one place you say no, in another you say yes.
1 -
Well, the tunnel is an effective strategy, as you will only face 3 survivors, and this makes it much easier to pressure them
This doesn't mean anything code wise.
You need to define what is tunneling so it can be coded as a trigger for your system.
Issue is your defination will be either too vague and can be abused (it will trigger when it's not supposed to) or it will be too strict (can play around to ignore it).
1 -
This is a suggestion to solve the tunneling problem, not Genrush's problem
And I didn't contradict myself, maybe you didn't read it well or I wrote it badly
And let me remind you that not all problems can be fixed at once. I know that my proposal will greatly reduce tunneling, but we haven't talked about the killer side yet.
And I don't know why you're talking that way, as if the game now
0 -
So what is the tunnel from your point of view?
0 -
Wait killer cannot do ######### for 60 seconds, not even pick up the survivor that was unhooked in his face, for the vile act of hitting the survivor that he hit and hooked just before? And a generator gets done? It better be the one with the most progress on it....
This is so unbelievably unbalanced survivorsided abuseable bullshit. Survivors call everything tunneling! How the ######### are devs supposed to get a condition coded that'll please the crowd?
0 -
You make me laugh with your response, I love it🤣
-(Not mocking you)
0 -
I don't think it can be addressed. Most of fixes would only cause more troubles.
Fact is that current queue times suck for survivors and you want to nerf killers?
Only way to help with tunneling would be to create incentive toward spreading hooks.
BBQ was doing this, but it was nerfed. Right now there is not really a reason hooking new survivor if you have already hooked others. It gives you very little pressure and you risk Deliverance.
It might be good to make an effect by Entity that triggers when you manage to hook all survivors or something like that. Kinda like Grim Embrace (which is bad tho). If you make spreading hooks rewarding, you can counter balance it with longer hook timers to fight camping etc.
Developers currently can't straight nerf killers at this point, because they don't have enough of them. Which is kinda funny to me.
0 -
Well can you honestly tell me what is wrong with my idea? (apart from Genrush)
0 -
The whilole idea is bad. The moment you make it actively worse to tunnel then not doing anything, that is exactly the moment where the game breaks and survivors will actively try to be tunneled (AKA throw themselves at killer).
The other thing is, that some level of tunneling (the thing that @Archael mentioned for example - and yes, that absolutely is tunneling according to most definitions of everyone) is totally ok and healthy for the game.
Problem is if "hardcore" tunnel is always without thinking best go-to strategy no matter the circumstances (I would argue that's our current situation). For this thing perks are actually fine solution to the problem (same way as reassurance basically solved situation after patch 6.1 where hardcore face-camping was optimal winning strategy that most killers were doing all the time).
So in my eyes the only thing that is needed to fix it is change perks (more perks like new pain res or like grim embrace/no way out that incentivize spreading hooks and making perks like DS matter again - especially against high tier killers - by e.g. draining/disabling the power for like 5s and giving hefty sprint burst to unhooked survivor) and the issue with hardcore tunnel is solved.
0 -
SWF would abuse this so hard, nobody would have to touch gens anymore.
1 -
The reason why Tunneling is in the game is:
1) Gen speeds... 1.0-2.2 charges per second not counting perks, Toolboxes and great skillchecks means that gens will take 90 seconds to 45 seconds... but as soon as you add in hitting great skillchecks a solo Survivor can complete a Gen in 45 seconds... So the Killer is getting rid of 1.0 charges per second on Gens and free saves and healing
Also the Killer can't chase anymore then one Survivor at a time... meaning that the game is 4V1 but chases are 1V1
So your idea falls flat...
1 -
I don't think using Perks to combat tunneling is a good idea because some can only be obtained by paying $5 and same with camping.
And this is exploitation
0 -
1) it's impossible to define "tunneling" code wise. It will either be too vague or too strict.
2) your effect seems weird to me. So many effects for survivor who is getting tunneled, basically make it harder for them in exchange for whole gen.
How it would look -> First survivor gets hooked. During that chase, it's possible to get 1-2 gens. So let's say they are at three gens, while you have one hook.
When that survivor gets unhooked, he will bodyblock the hell out of you, actually wanting to get downed, because it will finish whole gen for his team while he is still alive, then killer would actually be forced to tunnel him to compensate for you fix.
You never, ever, want to have system, where survivors want to die. It's supposed to be something they want to avoid.
2 -
You don't need to have the perk to get it's value. So many killers stopped camping because maybe someone has reassurance... Even if nobody has it in lobby, it deters from said tactics until it's last possible thing to do (and I am ok with occasional tunneling if killer has no other choise - the point is not to delete the tactics, the point is to not make it literally META in every occasion - check literal accronim).
Like you don't want to take away agency of what the other side can do (no matter the side). You just want to make majority of games enjoyable for both sides as much as possible - so you want the most boring tactics to be less then the most optimal way to play the game in every occasion.
0 -
I have few other solutions for tunneling problem:
- Make hooks works like Pyramid heads cages - surv is relocated and killer dont know where.
- For every killed survivor, gen repairing speed is increased, but decreased for every gen compleated.
- Remove "killing" aspect. Entity feeds on emotons, fear and pain. Let the survivors play whole game. I have posted a more detailed description of this Idea:
- Trial is time-limitted
- There are no gates, but two switches
- Switching both before time limit banish killer and survs won
- Not switching both before time limit makes a dawn and Entity consumes survivors.
- Hooks just reduce survs ability to finish gens, without removing them from the trial
- Also, survs will really be dead by daylight if timer would count down to dawn.
Only 3 simple solutions, and all better than straight free gen repairs.
0 -
You forgot to account for Survivors tunneling Generators.
What punishment do they get for tunneling gens?
1 -
What is your idea about tunneling gens?
Is it just counter false argument so survivors have something to tunnel too, or what?
You are scared that all survivors are workign on one gen? I wish they would do it...
1 -
1) You know where tho, it's not really hard to find them. It might help, but you can as well remove basement.
2) might work, but 3-gen would be pain to deal with again. It would promote slugging, so you keep gens slowed. Just fix to create more issues.
3) sounds like new mode, nothing to do with normal game. People wouldn't like it. Don't change core gameplay, which is reason why people started to play in first place.
0 -
How do gens stop being tunnelled?
1 -
- No. Its the whole point for killer not knowing where surv is.
- Some balancing is needed, slugging is another thing, we are talking about tunneling.
- It looks like mod, but core gameplay is not as much different. Difference is that:
- Game cannot lasts forever
- Tunneling is not existing
0 -
If there ever was a new gamemode, I would love this to be a thing. However, I absolutely don't want this to replace core gameplay.
Also - and this is just a tiny detail. If you require from survivors to flip open 2/2 switches, the easiest thing killer can do to 100% win the game is spawn in a game, go to one of the switches to bodyblock it and then go for a dinner...
0 -
I guess it's another one of those crazy ideas where survivors get a press X to win option and killers get hit by wreaking ball on their head. Very funny ( not ).
0 -
How about next survivor who killer hooks just dies so tunneling problem is solved then too?
1 -
This kind of suggestion apparently is not allowed. Suggestions that benefit survivors are welcome though.
0 -
Tunneling is a made up concept.
Survivors rush gens and as a response killers have to rush survivors out of the game.
You get nothing for getting all gens to 33% progress. You get nothing for hooking three people one time each.
See the problem?
2 -
As much as i agree that genrush is one of the reason some killers camp and tunnel.
I cannot agree that we have to touch both those topics in the same thread.
Those are different things, both of which should be resolved from devs side, but when we talk about one thing, we should talk at one thing.
And also. Dismissing anti-camping suggestions with argument "genrush" and vice -versa is at least silly.
Just because genrush exists does not means tunneling do not exist.
And - no, resolving genrush is not the ultimate answer for tunneling and camping. Even if all perks and items for gen speed would be removed from the game, and one gen would need 300s do be done, lot of killer would still camp and tunnel.
3 -
-"As much as i agree that genrush is one of the reason some killers camp and tunnel. "
"I cannot agree that we have to touch both those topics in the same thread."
Since you agree that genrush causes tunneling; do you think gen rush is fine and Tunneling is bad?
-"Just because genrush exists does not means tunneling do not exist."
You missed the forest for the trees. We already established that Gen rushing exists and that causes killers to need to tunnel as a reaction.
If you want tunneling to stop a few things need to happen.
- Killers need some kind of base kit prevention so that they don't lose the gens as quickly as they do now. Base kit deadlock would probably work. Just change the perk by the same name to block gens for an additional 30 seconds.
- Killers need an alternative to tunneling that is more appealing. Tunneling one player out effectively gives their team a -25% debuff to everything because that potential from the team is permanently gone. If hooking a player for the first time (if no one is dead) gives -9% to everything then that is more of a penalty than Tunneling. Most survivors would want to play DBD like that because that would make generators take 122 seconds with four stacks. As a base kit change this would very likely cause Dying Light to become meta. Hooking each survivor once would give you 12+36 = 48% penalty to all actions (how do 133 second generators sound).
People love to say : just punish the killer. Well that's fine and all but the Role of killer needs to be fun AND have a chance where you feel like you can win. If those conditions are not true then the killer might stop playing DBD or switch roles.
It actually hurts the game a lot more if multiple killer mains stop playing killer and instead play survivor (tipping the scale even more).
0 -
-"As much as i agree that genrush is one of the reason some killers camp and tunnel. "
"I cannot agree that we have to touch both those topics in the same thread."
Since you agree that genrush causes tunneling; do you think gen rush is fine and Tunneling is bad?
No. I agree that some people tunnel because of gen rushing. Not all of them, and not only because of that.
-"Just because genrush exists does not means tunneling do not exist."
You missed the forest for the trees. We already established that Gen rushing exists and that causes killers to need to tunnel as a reaction.
No. It was the answer for the argument. Argument was that because i'm this topic author was talking about tunneling it means that they dont want to aknowlege genrushing. And as much as i can see why this statement was made i cannot agree that if topic is specifically about tunneling we have to talk about genrushing.
And Idea You gave is simmilar to what i have posted. Yet it does not adress genrushing. It is about tunneling, making it less appealing, and its about reducing gen repair speed. But genrushing is when all surv efforts are putted into gens so that game ends in 3 mins. Even with Your suggested change, genrushing is possible.
Which means that even if You talk about genrushing, You are not touching it.
And one other things to your suggestion: giving only penalties is not good thing.
My suggestion was to reduce gen speed for hooks, but increase it for kills.
0 -
Of course, I am punished for the mistakes of baby, Bill
What if I am good at a game while my team is bad why should I be punished for their mistakes?
0 -
You CANNOT address tunneling if you only do it for one side and not the other.
What does the killer get if the survivors finish two generators before the killer gets 2.4 hooks?
-"One random generator is fixed automatically"
I mean really? What happens with killer if there are no kills and the survivors finish 4 generators? Does one survivor die instantly on the spot? LOL.
1 -
Tunneling is a thing, survivors just use that term way more than should.
Gen rushing is a thing, but killers are using that term way more than should.
1 -
Why punishing tunneling instead of rewarding mixed hooks? Spoiler: Killers now tunnel because it's the best (and only) strategy allowed against strong teams, but why punishing it when you can reward killers for mixed hooks?
It's simple, if you reward the killer for choosing to not tunnel (and not reward him with bloodpoints, I mean giving him a reward in matches) killers will stop tunneling immediatly.
My idea is: With every hooks, survs get weaker. A surv that got hooked one time is 10% slower in everything (repair, healing, cleansing, etc), two times is 20% slower. So killer will say "If I tunnel someone out, all survs can make gens faster, so I do mixed hooks so every survs is slower in everything". Obviously this need a balance, and my idea is that in teamwork (rapairing/healing with at least another surv) reduce of 5% (or 10% if it's second hook) the penalty. This in my opinion is the best way to fix tunneling: by rewarding mixed hooks.
I apologize for my English, I'm Italian.
0 -
this has got to be the worst tunneling fix ive ever seen
1
