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Early hook suicides should be reportable
I get it takes more effort to see if the person did wrong. But it literally has exactly the same effect as disconnecting and should be treated as such. It's technically sabotaging your team and refusing to participate in normal gameplay.
I'm sick of seeing first down surv rush themselves onto 2nd hook phase then miss the skill checks to kill themselves. Just had a game where a player did this, I unhooked them then they prevented me from healing them by constantly moving. They didn't even leave the hook, just moved to prevent me healing and eventually ran to the killer. One surv dead in the first 3 minutes there is no way survs can win.
This isn't just inconsiderate to the team but techincally against rules as written, not engaging with normal gameplay and technically working with the killer, because it provides them with a free kill and a huge game advantage. I don't understand why people load onto the game and simply nope out at the first inconvenience.
I get it late game if the game is clearly unwinnable but there is no legitimate reason to just throw yourself on hook in the first 3-5 minutes of a game. It's just exactly the same as DCing just with an extra step or two to avoid the DC penalty.
Comments
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To be fair they should just get rid of trying to get yourself off the hook outside of Deliverance. It's almost always just used to screw over your teammates and confuse newer players.
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That's the call to go play some killer. When this happens, I just go play killer.
I know, ignoring the problem isn't the solution, but nobody at BHVR seems to give a damn about this for a long time, so why would we care 🤷🏻
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Admittedly when I play killer I'm absolutely in a position to punish people for doing this early game. Usually if I notice someone try to suicide on first hook and then run up toe as soon as they are unhooked I will simply repeatedly slug them.
Lets their team mates at least farm bp off of healing them amd delays them actually getting out of the game. Occasionally they even start playing properly again.
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I'm all for this. Or removing the detriment for trying to self unhook. Made a thread about that a while ago. It would give people and actual reason to run self unhook offerings and perks. Because atm they are actively bad and will increase your chance of dying.
Decrease the base percentage chance to unhook to like 0.5 to 2% so it isn't a thing that happens every game. And probably rebalance the self unhook offerings/mechanics
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Removing the ability to self unhook completely would invalidate some perks and offerings. So they would have to change that aswell which I dont really see happening xD
Also, does slugging the person that tried to get off the match really do anything? The person no longer wants to play that match, he will just tab out and do something else. At that point you are just stroking your ego but go for it
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Oh you mean those perks that literally nobody ever uses? I barely see luck offerings, have literally never seen anyone run ace's luck perk and I've seen slippery meat like once or twice total.
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It's like saying removing camping would invalidate terriotial imperative, except I would argue an early """""KOBE"""" is far worse than a camping killer.
Too many people on these forums try to defend this "mechanic" especially the older players it seems.
I don't want people to leave me in a 3v1 as a survivor and I don't want to be in 3v1 as killer it's just boring/work to me.
You want to leave or have consistent internet problems? Eat the dc or don't play.
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I mean... yeah. That's part of the point of the function
"Survivors can play as altruistically or as selfishly as they like" -BHVR.
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It definitely shouldn't be reportable reportable as it is a built in mechanic. But as soon you see the aura of the first person hooked giving up you know the game is ruined for all 4 of the other players.
I wouldn't object to a DC penalty penalty for people doing this early on in the game though.
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Literally just remove the kobe, there is pretty much no situation kobeing works nicely.
This is such a outdated and poorly thought out mechanics, kinda like bubba facecamping, literally game breaking but somehow not against rules and BHVR NEVER want to fix it, at all.
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It makes no sense to ban someone for using a feature of the game as intended. If Bhvr did not want us to be able to hook suicide they would have changed it. It's been in the game for 7 years. If anything, Bhvr should remove the ability, not arbitrarily start banning people
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I wouldnt say it's reportable but it should 1. Heavily penalize their score and 2. Bump up the score of fellow survivors and the killer. I get orritated as a killer that I lose hooks because of this and my score goes down
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Then I won't have those times where I Kobe and the Killer just looks at me dumbfounded while I do a respectable crouch and run away.
This usually allows me a free pass from the Killer until I'm fully healed or a free escape if done as the last Survivor.
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- "no legitimate reason to do it in the first 3-5 minutes of a game"
- "refusing to participate in normal gameplay"
- ruining game for other 4
wow it's almost like camping that also should be reportable
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The problem with that is that how scummy suiciding on hook is really depends on what's going on in the game
If one survivor is getting chased, one is opening a chest, and another one has a gen at 20% with 5 gens left, and they're very clearly not going to bother coming to get me until well after I've progressed a hook stage, yeah, there's no reason to stay in the match. They clearly don't care about screwing other people on the team over, so I'm not going to feel bad about it, either.
If there are four gens left, all three of the others are on gens, and the killer is camping, yeah, I'll gladly eat a hook stage in exchange for 2-3 gens to all pop at once.
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No, no, no. You're using a bad comparison. Territorial Imperative doesn't only work for a killer who is camping. Luck offerings/Perks and self unhook perks would legitimately get invalidated once self unhooking is removed, as they would legitimately be useless without reworks. If camping was removed, nothing would happen with Territorial because no one uses it.
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At this point they should remove the self unhooking but make it apart of Deliverance
And change the Luck offerings and Ace's perk
But that's just me probably overreacting to this
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How would they track this? By others reporting? Few go through all the steps in the awful reporting system. Almost nobody records each of their games. I'm not even sure how to on my Xbox. And all the accused would have to say is "I had a real life emergency and had to go." or something similar.
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Okay but when the 4% is successful it is so goddamn hype. The adrenaline rush after it happens leads to unforgettable moments in the game.
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Except you know, that is actually killer working toward their objective. Much as I hate camping it's a legitimate killer tactic. Their objective is to ruin the survivor's time.
Surv suiciding is the opposite of what they're supposed to do and actively sabotaging the team they are supposed to work with.
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Yh maybe not have it as reportable but at least remove it as a feature. It's a problem that should be looked at.
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nah, people shouldnt be forced to play when they dont want too.
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I think the whole hook mechanic is kinda lame from the game play standpoint. Thematically it's interesting but you just hang there and... don't play the game until someone else helps you. If someone doesn't help you then you die and have to queue for another game.
Sounds like a fun, well designed mechanic for a video game.
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I mean it's kept the game going for almost 7 years. The base mechanic is fine, bhvr just shouldn't be letting people soft DC with no consequence.
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Instead of outright banning people for trying to unhook themselves, why not make the slippery meat perk basekit and increase the chances survivors have to unhook themselves? It may motivate players to attempt more saves while also giving players another option to get unhooked other than relying solely on their team. Besides that, unhooking yourself just feels good so if it were able to happen a little more often players might like that. I guess it would also encourage more players to try it and risk going into 2nd stage early, but just make it to where you get ever so many attempts without causing progress into the 2nd stage hook so players will know to start relaxing and wait for their team.
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A player that's given up has given up regardless of whether you make them waste time in the game. Everyone keeps trying to treat the symptoms and not the problem. Figure out why they aren't trying in the first place.
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Doesn't matter what you do people will always give up regardless of how much the symptoms are treated. People will simply be less likely to stop playing if they actually get punished for it.
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The problem with trying to ban hook suicides is how to determine what is a suicide and what counts as early?
If you only check the first person hooked, then you just get a situation where people still suicide on 2nd hook and after while also leaving the chance that if the survivors play badly and all get slugged after the first hook and first guy tries a last ditch attempt to unhook themselves, if they die they'll get punished.
You would have to build a system with tons of exceptions and there's bound to be some way to still exploit it. At least with the dc penalty it's a simple check and to help prevent over punishing people who have a legit issue causing them to disconnect, the early timers are really short.
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Or more likely to just find other ways to not try. You can't force people to try any more than you can force them to have fun.
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Not really. If you take away hook suiciding and make DC's harsher at least after the first, then all that's really left is trolling. It will reduce the players that act this way, whether some stop trolling or some stop playing. Other games are prime examples of that.
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Yep! I've argued this before. Usually when people give up like this its because of something else that happened in the match. Not always of course. Some people do it just because they were the unfortunate survivor to be found first and early. Other reasons could be getting downed after vaulting a window and your character is 10 feet on the other side making you wonder how you even got hit in the first place.
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Of course there are. You could just meme the rest of the game. Run laps around the map. You could just sit on a gen and ignore the killer entirely, regardless of their presence. That last one you have no way of dealing with and they were literally more useful still than 90% of solo queue players.
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So have kobes tho. 🤷♀️ and it isn’t a soft DC anymore than just running at the killer, going AFK, or getting slugged. In all three scenarios someone isn’t playing the game or contributing to the success of other survivors. I don’t know of any other game (assym or not) where players are at any point ‘forced‘ to play besides this one. Maybe when you queue up as killer don’t do stuff that leads players to want to give up on hook? Idk. Some problems need fixing from the inside.
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It's because dbd doesn't have backfilling. Any other game I play someone leaves, their spot is filled in a few seconds, usually by a human player or at least a bot.
Players who consistently ragequit the second they get downed are not something this game needs and imo should be banned if they do it repeatedly. That is why we have DV penalties. Because unlike other games, every DC in dbd ruins the entire game. Soft DCs like hook suicides have exactly the same effect with zero consequences and that's why I think it needs to be dealt with.
Sidenote, blaming killers for it is a little silly really. Sure some people are going to play toxic but survivors are just as bad for it. And killers playing sweaty tactics will result in players dying faster, which is what the ragequit players want to do so the issue is?
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Idk, there have been occasions where a kobe has come in clutch and turned the tables. I'll never forget the infinite T3 myers who camped me in rpd main and I (acidentally) had the full self-unhook-build equipped. He looked at me reassured for a good long while - and once exit gates were opened I just hopped off after a few tries and ran out. Or the Plague who really went out of their way to slug everyone at four gens, spinning and nodding like they won sth - and then two people kobed and the match continued. There's something very satisfying about these situations.
That being said. The way more frequent case of taking chances is to make clear the last survivor should not attempt to unhook you but instead get in position for hatch game.
There was also a phase where survs in soloQ would kind of refuse to unhook so for a while I did run Slippery Meat + luck offering and it works often enough to be worth it. Either to unhook myself or to prompt a teamie to move their butts to get an unhook.
So, overall, I think there are a great many uses of the self-unhook mechanic. --- And I think these uses are impossible to separate from people taking chanceswith ill intent. Though, if there is a way to change the mechanic to allow for the viable/valid uses while making the invalid/sabotaging ones impossible, I'd be all for it.
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I have made a suggestion before that fits that solution.
Remove the penalty for trying to self unhook. It no longer allows you to speed your hook state along. Along with that nerf the base chance to kobe to prevent self unhooks being common. Imo like 0.5-1 should do the trick. Rebalance/rework the luck offerings and perks to compensate for the low kobe chance.
It prevents people giving up on first hook, makes self unhook builds viable or at least not a huge usually self detrimental gamble.
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How often can you try to kobe in 45 seconds? Quite a few times, I imagine. - I like the direction though. Also gives you something to do while being hooked 😂
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I do think there should be some downside to it though for trying. Maybe each failed attempt gives a 10 second delay to healing once unhooked?
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This behaviour made me mad in both roles - as surv im pretty sure we are screwed. As Killer i know there will be no challange nor fun gameplay.
As surv i have nothing to do with this, just deal with it and go to the next match, sometimes im reporting such people for helping the killer.
As killer i deliberately refuse to kill this one if they had 2nd stage, for as much as i can and allow all other survs to escape if they wish.
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Oh I don't mean remove the 3 attempt limit. That'd be insane lol
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Hook Suicide is disconnecting without penalties. Why the devs never did anything about it is beyond me. If you are going to suicide on first hook, don’t queue. Go play something else and let the remaining players actually enjoy the game.
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Then that doesn't get rid of the problem at heart tho; people taking the chances to get out of the match asap for whatever reason (sometimes justified, sometimes not so much).
I mean, chances are if you don't have the special perks/offerings to get yourself off hook you spend the majority of your time on hook trying to unhook yourself without ever getting off. I suck at statistics so I can't tell you how many attempts are statistically needed to unhook yourself based on a 4% chance, let alone a 0.5% or 1% chance. 45 seconds / 1.5 seconds are 30 attempts you theoretically got - though I think each attempt taking 2seconds is more realistic. - Which is still 23-ish attempts. If it's an acumulated healing penalty that person would not be able to heal for the remainder of the match.
Personally, I like the "being on hook activity" to be you trying to unhook yourself - just with a really low chance and not spamm-able. So the action takes 2 seconds now and has a 1 second cooldown. Which mean you got about 15 attempts. Say on average every two to three matches a killer should see a survivor unhooking themselves, if everyone was trying and no one went to unhook a survivor (in reality this will happen much less frequently, because people do go for unhooks). So one out of 10 survivors who try. so every 150th attempt should be successful. - What kind of base percentage to we need for that?
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Indeed. The people who complain about it never seem to get it. It doesn't matter what they do, as survivor or killer. If the person's done with the trial, they're done. A fast out is always preferred, but if they can't get it they'll just tab out.
That's the thing. It's going to be a 3v1 no matter what. You can rage at it as much as you'd like, but it is what it is. And your last line, "eat the dc or don't play", is not only inconsequential to the trial as it still leaves three survivors either way, but you're admitting you're ok with getting that result with a DC but but not with a hook suicide, which is hypocritical. To the person who left, they're still gone. I can promise you the DC penalty means little to them, whether it's one minute or one day, as they can play any number of other games or watch any number of videos while waiting for the DC penalty to tick down, then go back to playing DBD.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to bump up the scores of the other players to compensate, though penalizing the score of the person dropping out would have no effect. If they're willing to eat a DC/suicide on first hook they'll likely have little/no score or points built up to penalize. And since that's the case, any additional point penalty would be negligible at best. The long requested idea is to add bots to the match for the person who left. Bots may not be perfect compared to a good player, but if you've ever played any custom games against the bots you'll know they're not too bad. Certainly better than about 20%+ of the current player population.
Preach.
Or, we could give it a shot and see what happens. There's a good chance that if the problem(s) are treated the symptoms will at least lessen. It's already been proven that punishment doesn't work as "encouragement". Both in the game and in society in general.
Exactly.
In DBD? Yeah, try that out.
Ironic, isn't it?
Has no effect either way. It's not a reportable offense so nothing will happen other than yet another pointless ticket clogging the system. If slugged the player just tabs out and does whatever. Whenever this happens to me I load up another game with DBD in the background and play until the trial's over. As of late I've been achievement hunting in the recently released remaster of The Last of Us Part 1.
The devs have given reasons time and again on why it's in the game and they have no intention of removing it. It's why they stopped responding to the question after the first few times it was asked. At this point, asking for its removal is like asking for the removal of killers. It was funny at first, now it's just depressing.
Hook suicide could be completely removed from the game, and it'd change almost nothing. You'd just start seeing a lot more survivors hanging out at hooks with AFK crows, or an uptick in survivors hiding the rest of the match doing nothing useful and waiting for a shot at the hatch/exit, and so on. Still going to be a 3v1.
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I have no idea what to say if you think removing hook suicide and dcing being a real penalty would not decrease the amount of players who are willing to leave the game.
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I've said this before in the similar thread yesterday, but I'm 100% down for removing hook suicide as a mechanic so long as survivors are given more information in the pre-game lobby regarding what killer they're about to go in against. This game has too many design elements specific to one killer, such as Plague's vomit (which some people consider triggering) or Clown's screen distortion (which can cause motion sickness). I personally cannot play against Clown without getting sick and getting headaches, and there should be a method in-game for me to be able to leave that match without getting locked out of the queue since I wasn't given the information necessary to leave the lobby before the match started.
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I'm all for being able to disable certain killers. Especially for phobias. Coulraphobia and emetophobia.
Giving info on exactly what killer it is is too OP tho. Way to easy for bully swfs or even just normal players to change their builds pregame.
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If someone doesn't want to be in a match, they need to have an option to leave without getting banned over it. If your match is ruined because someone gave up, move on.
Giving up is part of the game mechanic. You got chased, you lost, you're hooked. If you don't want a second chance, you die and move on.
If I'm trying to give up and move on, I will be more annoyed if someone tried to save me. It's wasting my time and, from my point of view, holding the game hostage. Don't expect someone to cooperate when you forced them to stay in a match they wanted to leave.
This is what multiplayer games are. There are people who will not be having fun and will want to leave. It's not their responsibility to ensure your fun experience, nor do they owe you a fun match. You're just a random person to everyone else in the match, and they don't care about you or your feelings. They play to have fun and if they're not having fun they surrender and leave.
If that is a huge issue for you, then play killer or a co-op game.
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I find it funny people are complaining about this.. if people want to leave the game they should have the option.
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I'm all for being able to leave but there should be a solution that doesn't screw your team over like it does (add bots? Add BP bonuses? Etc?)
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I've suggested bot backfilling a couple of times. Tbh bots play better than most solo q pubs.
Then I couldn't give a monkeys if somebody wanted to ragequit.
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