Slugging, camping and tunneling: The new reality after the patch
I played a few matches today to see the new updates in the game and let me tell you, this might be the reason I stop playing Dead by Daylight altogether.
The Medkit and COH Nerf
When I played the PTB I called it and it happened: every single killer I went against ran Sloppy Butcher, Tanathophobia, Franklin's and Knock Out (or a variation including Coulrophobia or Unnerving Presence)... I was left to bled out in two consecutive matches because, as I also predicted, Solo Q teammates won't risk saving you if they are injured and could go down as well; the medkit nerf is terrible, it renders these items useless and they become a waste of Bloodpoints all in all. As for Circle of Healing, it's a dead perk in Solo Q, since your teammates won't let go of gens just to ran to heal you up. If BHVR intends on keeping these horrible changes, then they need to rework the Killer perks that already acted as nerfs to healing in the first place.
Tunneling, Camping and Slugging
As I mentioned above, I was left slugged and bled out in two consecutive matches (in one, the Wraith I went up against even mocked me by ringing his bell and walking over me over and over as I died); camping was already an issue before, but now is like the sole strategy to secure a 4K, since in like 7 out of 9 matches I had today, the killer proxy camp in order to injured the rescuer (securing another stack for Tanathophobia) and went straight for the recently unhooked survivor to down them again... I played around 9 matches, I didn't escape a single one.
All in all, this update went live even when the whole community voiced their opinions and the devs kind of listen, but didn't pay attention to what we really meant... Playing this in Solo Q is unbearable, and playing with a SWF will only work if you're in comms. Honestly, I play both Survivor and Killer, and I can assure you the game is completely killer side right now.
How to try and balanced the game
- Un-nerf medkits and Botany Knowledge, and rework perks like Empathic Conection and Desperate Meassures (give them a boost for healing) if you want to keep the changes for COH, since healing is the only counter for certain slow down gen perks (Tana, Dying Light, etc.)
- Rework the perks in order to make them usable for every survivor/killer (like Gearhead), don't nerf them to the ground in order to eliminate the "meta"
- Rework Sloppy Butcher, which is the most problematic perk in the game right now: if you want to keep the slow progress in healing, then you shouldn't loose the health you already have from healing yourself.
Comments
-
Killers had perks to always have killed healing to begin with, I myself when I play killer had no issue with circle , wanna know why? (nurses calling) survivors never tend to run shadow step with coh or distortion to this very day and time. Nurses is one of the most easiest way to kill healing and is stupid powerful on stealth killers, then there also was ofc sloppy and claso, those 3 perks are powerful yet ofc qq entitled killers who is never satisfied qq qq qq and more qq.
Oh lets not forget shatter hope, a perk that was given to the killers that once they snuff the boon out the totem also gets broken then what can the survivors do, but no it still was not enough cause killers dont wanna give up their precious gen regress crutches/aura reading crutches. At this point I would not be surprised that the next qq from killers about survivors perk to be nerfed will be inner healing/sprint burst/lithe/bite the bullet/distortion/breakdown/renewal.
Tunnel/Camp/Slugging= Yeah as always false promises, we get a bandaid of a poor 10 seconds bt that some killers they are so tunnel hungry(specially if its vs ttvs) they easily will count out that 10 seconds and down the survivor again. They gave a bandaid perk almost no one even bother to use call reassurance. People talk about off the record like its even that good, you do any type of actions you lose the effects specially if the killer by changes decides not to tunnel then its some what of a total waste.
On the slugging part the constant slugging for 4k is so stupidly disgusting, if am in a spot where its me and one other survivor and they slug the other person to find me I dc or if they down me but wont hook me to find the last person IDC, its stupidly disgusting and a total waste of precious time that I cant be on dbd 24 hours+ a day I only have so much a time to play after work. False promise that ub will be base, they could have done that ub base and not bother with no finish moris, leave the mori system be. Finally ill just make a thread from 6.1 to 6.7 how its been nothing but survivors nerfs and for the worst when I feel out of bordom. This game is total killer sided even popular streamers has been moving on to other games.
3 -
I wish they didnt nerf the gen regression as badly and nerfed self healing as badly. DH was annoying but i could play around it most of time.
When i played killer i generally liked playing gen kick perks but they're too gutted now.
Self healing nerfs hurt solo the most which didnt need nerfing, if survivors are nerfed its important that they try to make it so swf and solo are both hit with the changes and ideally swf the most.
2 -
All in all this update makes it unplayable for me. I hope they rework their brains and undo all of the changes.
1 -
Just because a small minority doesn't like the changes doesn't mean they are going to revert the changes.
The self healing nerf is incredibly healthy for the game. If anything, Bhvr now needs to figure out a way for solo survivors to find each other more easily when injured.
I am sure the devs will continue monitoring the game, and make more adjustments in the future. I could see sloppy losing the hemorrhage effect, for example. But personally I do not think that perk is op. And knock out is just generally a badly designed perk.
If anything though, the devs will want to look into ways to nerf tunneling and camping. But surely not go a step back by simply reverting the changes.
4 -
My main question is in solo q you have teammates who won't let go of gens? Can you send them to my solo q games please? I would be happy to stay injured if they would do gens instead of totems and chests.
3 -
Seems like issue is soloQ, not healing nerf.
Instead of trying to revert. It might be better to think about what would improve your soloQ experience.
Game is not really killer sided. It's still same as before imo:
1)SWF + nurse, Blight, spirit
2) most killers
3)soloQ + trapper, pig
3 -
Mr Myers, your #3 point, can you elaborate? Whats with Trapper?
0 -
He sucks
2 -
Ah, I agree. I could 4k your crew with him though. But he.. does kind of need love :(
0 -
You can 4k with anyone in theory. But if you talk about overall gameplay, he is definitely one of the worst killers in the game.
He has some chance against soloQ, but when you have team who can call out his traps, it just gets bad. Also RNG is big thing and lot of new maps is completely without grass to hide his traps.
He has some good add-ons tho.
2 -
I feel the games tend to be the sweatiest right after patches, mostly when they're controversial. Idk if it's because people are trying to prove a point or if they're just trying things out and pushing the new changes to their limits. In any case, I'm happy I haven't played yet if things are actually this bad, hopefully things will calm down in a few days (or changes get implemented if things stay bad)
2 -
The tunneling is crazy. I have only gotten Billies, Clowns, and pinheads in all my games. Billy is understandable since he just got the buff and people are testing him out but I haven't gotten a single game (out of around twenty) without ANY killer camping hook and/or tunneling, they are so greedy that they don't even care about the ten second borrowed time basekit and just M1 straight away to save them time and the possibility of Dead hard usage. Clown just throws two bottles and secures the down way too easily, billy players just camp hook by revving up their special attack, and pinheads just chain you once and you're welcomed back on the hook. I really wish I could just laugh it off and blame it on my lack of skill but I'm a decent player and usually last a minute looping against strong killer mains and only dropping like two pallets.
0 -
Well, this problem has been there since the 6.1.0 update. Killers now tunnel and camp more because is a "strategy"
If a strategy makes another player not being able to play the game, is an issue. And the worst thing is killer mock because "hahaha no dh, now I can tunnel in peace". They don't want to win, they want to make the other team miserable, and the game allows that
0 -
The whole point of the killer role is to make survivors no longer able to play the game.
2 -
Face camping made you unable to play the game.
You can play the game against tunneling killer.
Gen regression perks got nerfed a lot, so I can see why killers who want to win their game tunnel more.
Like what is your alternative except losing the game?
3-gen was good alternative, it was nerfed a lot.
End game builds was good alternative, also nerfed.
Camping, nerfed.
Hit&run got kinda back with healing nerfs, but only few killers can use this.
Some killers were playing friendly because of BBQ and were basically greedy for extra BP. But that's gone.
What reason killer actually have to hook new survivor, when he has 1/2 survivors on deadhook? It gives him very little pressure compare to killing a survivor.
Unless you make an alternative strategies as effective, you will see mainly tunneling. It's not really difficult concept.
4 -
Exactly, Matchmaking incentives Killers to kill more then hooks to rank up; which is why Killer tunnel and camp survivors closer to hooks. Why waste so many minutes chasing a experience Survivors in strong loops, while everyone does gens; when you can identify the weak link and prioritize tunneling and siting on the hook for Less then 2 minutes, as well as draw the others survivors to come to you instead of you chasing them. Also, if you lucky with specific Killer's, you can get free downs this ways if they played aggressive in the save.
The game currently punish any Killer's in general, for chasing multiple and different survivors, especially in big and strong maps where the loops are strong and connected to others. It punished them for with Survivors having a much shorter objective completions timer, due to the 4v1, and they relie on gen slowdown/regression perks as well as hit and run to stand a chances, as well as playing specific strong killers like nurse, and blight to have the mobility to keep up.
Literally most of the killer cast don't have a strong power that rivals the strong Mobility power, unless play by the best killers players and quite a fewmistakes survivors make to make a comeback. But, good survivors, especially swf in coms will ensure no mistakes can happen, and will always win against the average killers in engage with switching targets. In fact, it is a strategy that survivors will trade hooks and let the killer down them over the near death teammates to ensure everyone stays alive and waste the killer times, so they can win.
Camping and tunnelling is more common because it is practical a smart strategy to win as killer, give it distasteful to survivors receive it.
2 -
I see way more bnps and gen builds now, If i'm not playing nurse, blight, or spirit there are usually 2 gens done when i finish my first chase. Camping and Tunneling a player out is even more necessary now due to it being easier to pressure 3 survivors than 4.
2 -
lol. calling all the killer perks crutches is very telling.
1 -
Yeah, for sure.
Source: trust me bro
1 -
Which killer mains exactly? Would love to know. Because to me it sounds more like copium for you in order to be able to deal with the fact that despite how bad the patch is in your opinion, queue times for both roles have been almost instant. Which suggests most people aren't as unhappy.
I can promise you it's not only bad killers that like this patch. That's just you acting like a little kid, immediately throwing around ridiculous accusations because people aren't agreeing with you.
I actually do expect killer queue times to increase within the next few weeks, solo survivors are next in line now for some more improvements in my opinion. It would be nice for solo survivors to have an easier time finding each other for healing, for example. I would also love a nerf to camping.
But that's it, the game will still have a good amount of survivor and killer players.
0 -
Pretty much every killer has definitely benefited from the healing nerfs. Killers are now able to apply map pressure much better.
I do not see how tunneling and camping have become more necessary just because of the nerfs to the three most used gen regression perks. If anything, they have become less necessary, opening up the possibility for BHVR to nerf those strategies a bit more. I would love to see some nerfs to those strategies.
0 -
How to tell someone never played killer:
"QQ I claim to have played 3 games as killer the other day, killed everyone and now I know everything: nerf killer"
Cry me a river.
At low MMR killer is easy, because survivors are BAD at that tier. Real survivors are doing fine right now, me included (I'm a killer main, but I run SB on meg as a gen jockey with BNP)
They relied on DH (35% pickrate) and CoH as crutches for their bold misplays in early games, now that its gone their weakness shows.
Good survivors flourish right now. Working on a gen while hurt as never been this good as killer gen pressure is GONE.
BUT WAIT... DH is only working in mid to late game... yikes... better go cry on the forum that this one exhaution perk that still works the same in later stages of the game makes it killer sided!
Every single killer meta perk as been nerfed for the past years or so...
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM PERKS, latest killer meta perk to get hit had 11% pick rate or so... and it got a bad rep because Knight and Skull merchant were defensive killers.
Therefore, considering their previous pick rates, DH and CoH needs to remain dead PERIOD
Its time survivors get a "meta shake up" that lasts for ONCE.
While I'm here, FIX LEGION, they can't vault some pallets on some maps still (while in frenzy)... I bet you that if survivors couldn't vault a single pallet ANYWHERE it would get fix in record times... sadly, this has and will always be survivor biaised... it okay, they have the numbers to pay the bill...
But please... don't let the BAD survivors run the show... that's been like that for too long already!
1 -
Spookyloopz isn't so spooky without DH to save his ass hey?
Otz seems okay.
You don't watch killer main content and it shows.
It just a meta shift, now it's better to rush gens.
ACTUAL good survivors are doing fine, but some content creators need the click bait money kid
2 -
When I said it's necessary? I just said alternative playstyles got nerfed, so if you want to win the game as a killer, tunneling is best way left.
It can feel necessary on lower tier killers, but hey if you play them, you should expect to lose. But most players want to win anyway, so they try hard.
Hey, nerf everything else except tunneling, then show Pikachu face when killers tunnel.
Problem is that is not so easy to fix. So far I have yet to see fix that couldn't be abused or wouldn't destroy half of the roaster without touching best killers.
Proxy camping and tunneling are simply best way to win at this moment. It's not complicated. There is no alternative even close to it.
If you straight nerf those, well, enjoy your even longer queue times :D.
Survivors are saying how everyone is leaving and just lots of copium.
Every evening killers still have 100% BP bonus with way faster queue times. And sorry to disappoint everyone, this is not about MMR, because it's not account related. MMR is killer specific.
1 -
Idk why everyone is so pissed about sloppy its an 20% speed decrease for healing. That means if you heal 24 sec normal then with sloppy on you you need 28.4. That doesn't Sound op to me i wouldnt even waste a perk slot for it. I m 4.8 sec longer heals i would say in 1 out of 10 cases it could make a differens and allow you to down someone.
1 -
Queue times have been pretty even right now. I find survivor matches almost instantly as well.
You are right, tunneling and camping are some of the most effective strategies in the game, maybe even the only two. But I disagree that they are much better than any other strategy. Spreading pressure and going for chases, as long as you know how to apply enough pressure, can still be very effective too, and have not been nerfed as much as you seem to think, in my opinion. These strategies are just generally much more challenging, requiring more skill. That's why many killers like to resort to tunneling and camping, they just take so much less skill.
The healing changes however, in my opinion, were even more impactful than the regression nerfs, as killers still have some decent slowdown perks, just not as good as the three regression perks that got nerfed. But again, the healing changes more than make up for it in my experience.
Nerfing tunneling and camping into the ground without giving killers compensation would surely increase survivor queue times too much. We need both nerfs to camping and tunneling, and then either more, proper balance changes to maps, or some form of early game slowdown.
However, I do think that right now, after this patch, survivors will need at least a bit of help again. Something as easy as increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds, or maybe some further information buffs to solo survivors, maybe one that makes it easier for them to find other survivors to heal up.
0 -
Pretty sure it's 30 seconds. 24/0,8 = 30. Which is definitely quite some time considering old Self Care used to take 32 seconds. I can definitely see the argument for removing the hemorrhage effect of Sloppy. Now that healing has become a bigger source of slowdown for killers, 20% decreased healing speed plus hemorrhage could be pretty oppressive.
0 -
I am 100% fine with increasing hook timer, it will not help that much, because let's be honest. Most of the time you die in hook is because noone goes to save you in soloQ and stay on gens instead. (or chest)
Even if killer is proxy camping, they can do 1 for 1. Extra 10 seconds won't save it, but at least camping as strategy will be less effective.
That's why I often suggest survivor aura reading from Kindred as basekit, that would be huge buff, but it wouldn't matter that much to SWF.
I can see why camping is so bad, because you have to wait to die, which is boring.
I don't mind tunneling so much. as SoloQ I get to have chase, die, next game. As SWF, we can usually handle it to some extent and still get some players out. Depends on killer of course.
I love to play with strategy of spreading hits, but CoH made it way worse. It is kinda viable again since this patch, but there is not that many killers that can use it well. You basically need mobility or stealth to use it properly, that's why Wraith is one of best killers for this strategy.
0 -
The problem is that for some people tunneling is not a strategy, is a mindset.
You can buff killers all you want and people will keep tunneling because they just want to play like that and make survivors to suffer.
So yes, tunneling is a problem that needs to be addressed, but also you need to give killers something in compensation
4 -
That's part of the Rift. You are getting players just going through the Rift at this point because matches as survivors are pointless
0 -
I don't see tunneling as an issue and I play mainly survivor soloq. I see it as a strategy and nothing more. I take issue with the face campers and gen campers.
1 -
Honestly they can keep the medkits and COH nerfed, I just want my charges back, even if it gave you a higher speed penalty for more charges
What's the point of even having all these different types of medkits if they all have the same stats?
However, I kind of like the new Botany tbh, so idk about reverting it
Same with COH though, I love the extra speed to healing others but if really needed then I think the self heal will be OK at 40% instead of its previous 75% speed (since it stacked with itself)
Sloppy butcher is fine IMO. hemmorage was total trash before the buff, and you want to revert it? No thanks
If anything, more addons need to be updated to include mangled and hemmorage instead of one or the other
0 -
Well, both are boring to play against, so understandable.
Tunneling is still a chasing at least...
0
