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Why the nerfs?
Call of Brine? Now it only regresses the gen by 25%? What's even the point in running the perk? 4 Token of Pain Res? Is 4 uses of pop worth a perk slot? These weren't OP perks. I don't understand why they were nerfed.
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PR is honestly better right now. 25% is a HUGE amount of regression.
Good riddance to Overbrine honestly
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They were nerfed because of high usage. BHVR started this process back with the 6.1 update. They want more perk variety being used and less meta builds.
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Pain Resonance is still pretty good. Overcharge and Call of Brine clearly took the bullet that should have been for Skull Merchant though.
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COB maybeeee wasn't op per se but it was beyond problematic, allowing you to hold the game hostage for like an hour. Pain res is still pretty dang good, and consider that it's automatic unlike old pop
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because of how many people were holding games hostage for 30+ minutes by endlessly kicking gens. Killers brought those nerfs on themselves. Good riddance because it was the worst killer meta in the history of this game from a survivor POV. Shout out to people like Hens bringing attention to how ridiculous it was by making that video where he held a game hostage until the server shut down.
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And how many people are holding games hostage by setting up COH on the far side of the map (especially with slow territorial killers like Hag & Trapper) and just taking one hit and running off to get healed?
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cob was a problem on its own. overcharge only helped a bit or even made it worse bc of the initial regression speed
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Doesnt matter if the perk needs nerf or not. If its used a lot, if will get nerfed
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Call of Brine actually made kicking gens worthwhile, now it's downright trash and shall never be used again. They should buff the efficiency of kicking gens to compensate for this, the base regression rate is absolutely laughable and only results in giving survivors up to 12 seconds of potential progress elsewhere (around 3 seconds to kick a gen x 4 survivors).
I strongly advise raising the initial base regression from 2.5% to 5% so that it's on par with the Knight guards.
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Japanese community manager said「200%→125% is a small number changes」. This is BhVR's mathematics.
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Perhaps they would have nerfed CoB no matter, but the perk was killed because of 3 gen Skullie and Knight.
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- This game has a terrible problem with power creep. Each side has been getting more effective, more efficient tools with which to complete their objectives or hinder their opponents, and it makes the 'meta' even more oppressive against the non-meta. (for example, Circle of Healing wasn't always in the game, and before it was, Inner Healing was a good healing perk) That's why balance changes have to be nerfs at this point.
- Both killer and survivor have seen their most meta, most used perks nerfed. Survivors had Circle of Healing and Dead Hard, Killers had Call of Brine, Overcharge and Pain Res. None of these are unique options, survivors have other healing and exhaustion perks, killers have other regression perks, only the most oppressive were nerfed and there are plenty of entirely valid options remaining. Do not be a slave to the meta.
- Regression and Healing are complimentary powers, each undoing your opponents progress in their primary objective. By nerfing both in the same patch, you maintain a sense of balance and it shouldn't result in an unwarranted corrective response from either side. What you lose in regression capability is made up by survivors losing the same in healing capability. Sadly, players don't understand this, and both sides are furious that 'they' have been nerfed, completely ignoring the fact that their opponents have also been equally reigned in. Worse, they appear to see equal nerfs to their opponents as an additional threat to them, which is completely irrational.
- Killers are terrified that a nerf to healing means survivors will genrush, which should require greater regression capability.
- Survivors are terrified that a nerf to regression means killers will tunnel, which should require greater healing capability.
- Both are 'protesting' these changes by doing exactly this, instead of just adapting to the changes and playing normally.
- The irony of this fallacy flies over their heads, and the reliance on these meta techniques only feeds further into power creep and imbalance. If either of these actually happened (buff regression in response to nerfed healing or vice versa) it would be ridiculously imbalanced.
Post edited by Seraphor on8 -
It's honestly not better, survivor main.
It's utter trash. 25 percent regression on first hook on a gen 2 survivors are already on, that delays them by like 10 seconds and it's still done instantly.
Not talking about actually landing the scourge hook rng too.
Pain res needs fully reverted, period. It was the best healthiest regression in the game and rewarded killers for chasing and playing normally.
If they don't do something the killers gonna be quitting and bleeding out fast. Imagine nerfing gen regression but keeping all the gen speed perks and toolboxes etc. Absolutely just killed any non high pressure killers at remotely decent level.
Nobody cares about potato ranks where noone has good perks etc. New players get better and find out meta very quickly and will aim for that and in turn become better at the game this leading to survivor gen rush meta and killer tunneling because everything else leads to ding ding ding ding game over.
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It's utter trash. 25 percent regression on first hook on a gen 2 survivors are already on, that delays them by like 10 seconds and it's still done instantly.
If that is trash, then so was Call of Brine before the nerf. Call of Brine requires you to 1. kick the gen 2. keep survivors off the gen for at least 60 seconds. If you did both of these things, CoB would provide an additional 16 seconds of slowdown (based on one survivor repairing, add a second and that's about 10 seconds of slowdown).
Meanwhile PRs 25% regression is 23 seconds of slowdown for one survivor (14 seconds for two), it's instant, and is accomplished by furthering your primary objective of hooking survivors, not by playing defensively and protecting gens.
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I would expect that if survivors cannot heal (forget trying to reset to save against a camper), they’re going to prioritize gens / gates. There’s really no logical reason to do otherwise. And I would expect that killers who cannot efficiently manage gens will focus more on securing kills via tunneling and camping because that too makes sense. There are perk alternatives for both sides but none of them are sufficient, really. Killer is in a slightly better position than survivors because of patch 6.1 but both sides are desperate.
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Survivors have a choice when injured. Either forego safety and play offensively by repairing gens, or play defensively and heal up, delaying gens.
Both have upsides and downsides, if you play offensively, that leaves you vulnerable to killers who take advantage of this and also play offensively by pressuring gens. If killers would play 'normally' this would result in a dangerous situation for survivors, where 'genrushing' is a legitimately risky move that will cost them the game as much as it would win it for them.
Sadly, killers take the same mirror image position, whereby losing regression makes them feel like they have to play more viciously by tunnelling out survivors. Instead of capitalising on the injured survivors who are repairing gens, they go for the false economy of chasing the survivors who aren't actively furthering their own objectives. This only makes genrushing more feasible.
As someone who doesn't do this, who actively pressures gens, and tries to play killer unpredictably, capitalising on info perks over regression or slowdown, genrushing does not pay off. I frequently snowball by catching injured survivors off-guard and out-positioned, and prevent gens from flying by simply being on them as much as possible.
Furthermore, the game used to be like this! CoH didn't always exist, and neither did CoB, OC or PR. There was a time were Inner Healing was a good healing perk (a severely limited form of self healing), and Ruin was a good regression perk (a severely limited form of bonus regression, the totem would only last a minute or two), both were less impactful than the most recent meta perks were a couple weeks ago. The game was not a tunnelling/genrushing mess back then. This is wholly a player attitude problem.
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After tossing and turning and crying in my sleep for what they did to my precious SH:PR I made a thread here, cying some more, and the good people explained to me, how it actually isn't half bad. The perk is still very good, but now required a little bit of game sense and tactical accument of when to hook survivors on scourge hooks. If I could change one thing, though, it would be the double restriction of 4 tokens and each individual survivor. I think that just limiting PR to 4 tokens would have been good enough, BUT the difference isnt that big, so whatever.
CoB though got really wrecked. The info part of it was mostly just a welcomed add-on, 99% of the killers had it equipped for the regression, and now the regression is barely noticable. Thats a real shame.
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The problem with CoB is that since OC was reworked in 6.1, these two perks do virtually the same thing and they stack. Making them impossible to balance.
If you put CoB in a good place with a healthy amount of regression, then it becomes overpowered when combined with OC and vice versa.
They should never have added regression to Overcharge, and instead doubled down on it's skill check mechanic. But I think what they wanted to go for was having two similar perks, one from an original (potentially free) chapter, and one better version from a later licensed (premium) chapter.
Personally, I would probably buff CoB to about 150%, and then remove regression from Overcharge, instead Overcharge would have new effects based on whether survivors hit or missed it's skill check. Hit = instant 5-8% regression with no noise notification, Miss = blocks gen for 10-20 seconds and provide info to the killer in the form of a white gen. This would prevent it from amplifying CoB and would instead compliment it. If you kept the survivor off the gen for 60s you get value out of CoB, if you didn't, then you got guaranteed value out of Overcharge.
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"But I think what they wanted to go for was having two similar perks, one from an original (potentially free) chapter, and one better version from a later licensed (premium) chapter"
I think their idea was inspired with perk "lore" (idk how to call it)
""It is a trap (very hard skill check), But a trap one must step in... (because otherwise gen starts to regress very drasticly)"
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It used to be 200% charges per second or .50 charges per second now it's 125% or .3125 charges per second (for 60 seconds)
Overcharge was used along side Call Of Brine... so synergy has something to do with it
They were nerfed due to "overuse"... not because they needed it
4 Tokens of PR 25% of maximum progression... should be just enough but sometimes it's not
Pop can be used more then 4 times but I get the point... and it's 20% of current progress (needs to be changed)
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Pop used to be 25% of total program and unlimited using time.
It's fun to see kill's meta is really being weaker and weaker when survivor says that killer getting buff.
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Yea I know... I kinda didn't want to go through all of the changes cause
It's cause of "overuse" nothing more nothing less... BHVR wants to have verity but keep nerfing perks and not buffing other perks
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I don't think it is. There used to be a 25% regression with pop goes the weasel every time somebody got hooked. Another killer perk that got needlessly nerfed.
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Do you have a linkt to that?
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PR should not be compared to PGTW. With PR, you don’t have to go out of the way to kick a gen to get the regression, so you’ll always benefit from that time gained with getting regression from PR.
About COB though, it needed to go, same with Overcharge. They were unhealthy for the game.
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how would they be doing that if the boon is set up in an area that isnt of interest?
Eventually they are going to have to make the move by running into your territory, nothings stopping you from snuffing the boon either if theyre all there, or even if the majority are there
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How're they going to heal up if the killer's on them?
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Pretty sure its been longer than 6.1 where they started buffing/nerfing because "high/low usage".
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Uh oh, looks like I hit a nerve.
Killer definitely got a buff this patch. New PR is extremely impactful if you don't autopilot as Killer. It rewards good gamesense and smart plays.
Also, oops, sorry to burst your bubble but I'm a Killer main.
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Great thanks, must have a look into that :)
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Its also fairer for survivors. 25% x 4 effectively means that survivors have to repair 6 gens if used right.
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6 gens?
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PR is fine when Killer UI gets updated to reflect hook states of Survivors. Until then, it’s a sidegrade at best and nerf otherwise. All these unique hook based perks including Grim Embrace might actually see more use if the devs weren’t so stingy about the information Killers have access to.
Call of Brine is mostly for information now but Surveillance also does the same thing. Overcharge still has a place in skill check builds
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Use brain.
Remember Survivor hooked.
Win more.
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Good for you if you can consistently remember that especially after factoring in DCs, Surv suiciding to 2nd stage, or Surv who have been hooked once or twice already but not on a Scourge hook previously.
Sticking small post its on my monitor next to the Survivor’s icon fixes that issue but it’s kinda sad to be relying on that, just like using a Sandglass to wait out old Decisive Strike.
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Brine was awful and pain res was the spammiest damn regression perk. Made games too easy.
Brine needed either the regression to be toned down or to not reveal when the gen was fixed again. Both was incredibly oppressive.
Pain res was just straight stupid. And I say this as someone who play killer as well as surv. I used to run it and it made games way too easy.
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Knight could do it just as well though so we’d have to nerf his 3 gen potential too
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Overbrine was a crutch that encouraged boring uninteractive gameplay hence why it was nerfed
Pain resonance encourages hooking different survivors and give more regression than before at the start of the match when it needed. It’s still really good
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CoB is garbage now but i disagree with PR part.
For PR, i think it is better than old version. It is adding another gen into game and it is rewards killer for hooking different survivors.
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Eh, I'm using Overcharge still to force hard skill checks. Call of Brine is a joke now.
As for PR - thanks, but no thanks. Only 4 tokens makes it awful in my eyes. You could bump it into 40% and I still wouldn't use it. Glad I've adepted Artist before this patch.
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CoB and Over because they could not fix skull merchant 3 gen, so thise skills gutted.
PR because foment camping, you wait to trade hooks and revert gens.
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It is really not that hard.
@Topic:
Call of Brine and Overcharge were mainly nerfed due to their efficiency in 3-Gen-Setups. You cannot nerf healing (and it was nerfed, even when the Devs reverted the change to altruistic healing) and leave the 3-Gen-Perks alone, this would just have buffed this playstyle.
Pain Resonance is better than some people might think. The Buff to 25% was justified and helped the Perk. Before the Nerf you got more Regression after your 7th hook (7x15 = 105 compared to 4x 25 = 100). And at this point, you probably won anyway.
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25% x 4 = 100% (Providing you use the scourge hooks whilst gens have decent progress) You have the power to reduce there gen progress by 100% if you hook all 4 players once.
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Are you serious?
The slow, territorial killers like Hag and Trapper would have to trudge halfway across the map to find then snuff the boon. Then they'd have to trudge all the way back, meanwhile the survivors have circled around them and are pumping out gens..
Have you never played a territorial killer against CoH?
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Yes, I have. To snuff the Boon its all about finding an opportunity to do so and once you've reached that point you're in the middle of a snowball. Now its without a doubt that the bigger the map, the harder it is to do this but thats more of an issue with maps, not the perk
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Imo they could have just removed the ability for CoB and OC to stack, and that would have been healthier. Wouldn't have made two perks useless (one of them being a *paid for perk) while also removing the ridiculous +400% regression speed.
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