Slugging is too rampant
Where is the update to have built in self pick up ffs. Every single game the last 2 survivors are exactly the same. They get one down and they leave them and go looking for the other. I shouldnt have to run specific perks to have a chance at hatch. I've taken to DCing so the last survivor has a chance rather than lay on the ground for 1-5 minutes while the killer looks for and loops the last survivor.
Or better yet, bring back old hatch. You've buffed killers to the gods and nerfed every option for survivors, you can play a great game and the killer still get a 4k.
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At the very least, if there is only one survivor left standing and you're slugged in the ground, there should be a "press ___ to die" option after 30 seconds or so. That way, you can leave with earned BP, you don't have to spend minutes on the ground unable to play, and the hatch can spawn. The match is likely over at that point so imposing a DC penalty is stupid, and killers shouldn't be able to easily cheese the entire hatch mechanic through slugging.
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I agree that you should have the button to die after 30 seconds of there is only 2 survs left. As killer I only slug for the 4k if the team was in my face with flashlights and t bags and all the fun stuff. I don't mind bming and stuff but I will bm right back if someone starts it.
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I like this option, I would use it.
Had a game against a nurse with 2 of us and were still trying to finish gens and it just took forever. She tunneled the first two out of the game before 3 gens done. Killer perks are just so strong and always useful. Unless you rolled the dice and picked the right counter perks the game is just so frustratingly one sided, especially in solo queue.
And I am SOOOOO very tired of them babying killers and nerfing survivors based on 4 man swfs. They can't possibly be that large a group to be worth balancing based on them. If I have to deal with OP killer strats and be told its a 'skill issue' then killers should have to deal with bully squads and be told its a 'skill issue' .
Like, bully squads are frustrating, but you can usually guess based on flashlights and leons, and then you just put on franklins or lightborn and boom, easy 1-2 kills as they run at you to take hits. 4 k almost every time if they commit to hard.
I play legion with the addon that shows gen progression, 4k almost every single time. One add on should not be that strong. Thana, dying light, remember me, no way out. Its hatch or 4k. I'm not a good killer.
At least when playing survivor let me see what the randos in lobby have for perks so I can plan my build around it.
Honestly, kinda hate this game's balancing atm. I have been shaking my head for a year watching the patch notes and being like...whyyyyyyy?
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One day after. To respond to my replies. Why you gotta be a troll?
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The problem is not that you can't pick yourself up. I think it is because when there are 2 of you left and 2+gens left, then it is no chance/no fun scenario. I made a suggestion for making repair speed dependent on gens/survivors ratio. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/373702/repair-speed-dependent-on-number-of-gens-and-survivors-left#latest
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Yeah and it's not good idea...
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Well I should have named it "repair boost based on generators/survivors ratio". If the amount of boost was balanced correctly it would make games so much fun and challenging.
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How is it more challenging when it's easier?
Unless you mean more challenging for the killer.
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Yes, more challenging for the killer in games when it is too easy for him. It lowers the skill gap a little so the game is not too straighforward.
Killer doesn't need to be sad. Average killer kill rate is 60% which means 2.4 survivors are dead each game. And BHVR will keep this ratio.
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God forbid its challenging for the killer. Lol.
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But easy games for survivors are fine...
Average kill rate is not 60%. Pinhead has 60%, because he stomps soloQ.
Most killers are lower.
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Just so you know, I am killer main. And I want survivors to "suck" less in desperate situations. It is not fun to kill 2 people in 5 mins and spend other 10mins searching 2 survivors too scared to even touch the gen. Because God help them if they do.
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Sure, we can boost it, so they have chance.
Just add feature that survivors who don't do any objective for 3 minutes gets crow and killer gets notification. Not just afk.
That would fix it.
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Well, no-one asked you did they. So; troll.
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Old hatch ? So survivors can escape without completing all the gens ?
I
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Probably the most tone deaf post I've seen all day.
Explain to me, how exactly are killers "buffed to gods"? Is it the gen kick meta-- wait actually that got removed entirely. Actually, most regression perks are either dead or reworked. And now pain resonance, the strongest regression perk, has been reworked to discourage tunneling. Or was the healing nerfs that went through that ptb-- nope actually that just nerfed med kits down to being fair. being able to save the time it takes to find another survivor, and have them heal you wasn't fair. Especially because you could undo a skillful play in 16 seconds.
Was it bc DH got nerfed? No, that cant be. There are still at least 2 very strong exhaustion perks. And with regression being dead, toolboxes can go rampant unpunished. one bnp does 22.5 seconds of progress in 5 seconds. 22.5 x 4 = 90s to undo a 5s BNP. Ah yes killers have been buffed to gods.
Come to think of it killers been getting nothing but nerfs lately. Gen kick's dead, pain res nerfed/sidegraded. Gens are flying faster than ever since theres next to nothing to stop them now. Most meta perks encourage playing fairly, like NWO and Pain Resonance. Deadlock is simply passive slowdown to prevent genrushing and double pops etc. Huh... almost killers arent gods...
Not to mention survivors been seeing buff after buff. Did you forget the soloQ hud? Or the anti camp changes? or basekit BT? all of which were implemented to streamline the survivor experience into a bearable and fun gameplay loop. Survivors are getting basekit changes to prevent unfair strats like tunneling and camping. Basekit changes to ease soloQ, along with killer perk nerfs making popping gens much easier. All it takes is a commodious toolbox with a few addons to destroy a generator.
So by my metrics killers are gods because:
- Their strongest meta got nerfed
- most regression perks are dead
- the meta perks discourage or are neutral to tunneling
- survivors have basekit anti tunnel, basekit informative hud and soon to be basekit anti camp
- med kits are fair now
- coh is fair now
- toolboxes are running rampant
- gen rushing is now unstoppable
- DH is finally done being overpowered
- survivors still have plenty of good exhaustion choices
There have quite literally been next to no killer buffs this year. In fact, one could argue survivors are "buffed to gods" though i wont because thats stupid and not true. All im saying is that theres more to work with there if one wanted to.
Seriously, if you are having trouble escaping right now its just a skill issue. I know how pretentious that sounds but for real. Right now killers can barely do anything about gens, have a terrible early game without corrupt, cant counter gen rushing and have to deal with all the gens popping almost every game. Im not saying its easy to escape right now, but gosh golly gee willikers is it easy by comparison to before.
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The Tangent: Part 2
Okay, so let me lay out the things you want in this post.
- Old hatch
- Basekit Unbreakable
- Killer nerfs (assumedly)
- Win every time you play a "great game"
Im going to start with old hatch............ WHAT. NO. I am not going back to that. Gone are the days of bringing a key and escaping for free, good riddance to them. It was unfair on all levels, letting all 4 survivors escape for something completely chance based. Or by old hatch do you mean the standoffs? BECAUSE ALSO NO. I refuse to stand on hatch for 3478384 hours just so elodie can hide until the server boots us. not happening. ever. please god. never. again.
Basekit unbreakable................NOOO. Slugging isnt fun and all but they kinda already tried removing it. There was a PTB back in august or september where after 45 seconds of recovering you could self revive. Some good cam from it, bleedouts were no longer a thing. Neither was slugging for the 4k. But more bad came from it. First off, twins was unplayable. Twins HAS to slug to function, and since unbreakable was buffed on that ptb to revive at 100% it would only take 22.5s to completely deny a fair earned hook. Secondly, pallet saves were uncounterable. Right now, if someones contesting a pallet save, you can either bodyblock the side their gonna pull from if possible or chase them away. If the first was impossible which is common considering loop design, then you had to chase away. At which point the survivor picks themselves back up with nothing you could have done. Same thing applies to flashlights. If a bunch of people are bodyblocking a hook then you have the option to drop and chase away, but it doesnt matter because tey just pick themselves back up anyways. Same with saboing and all that jazz. If you downed everyone though then everyone died instantly. All it did was buff nurse while nerfing everyone else. Yeah no, I'd rather not have killer become completely unplayable because you cant handle being slugged for a little while.
Killer nerfs.... I already outline how killer is actually in need of some buffs considering the current dbd climate. Maybe a 10s basekit deadlock or smth idk. But clearly killers are not gods, and in fact, do not need nerfs
you just need skill.That last one sounds reasonable on paper. But its not. Just because you specifically play well shouldnt automatically get you an escape. DBD is a team game and unless you are actively working with your fellow survivors to escape and they are doing the same then you shouldnt get to go. Doesnt matter how good you are at looping, if everyone isnt working together then you shouldnt deserve to succeed in a teamwork based role.
TL;DR your wrong get ratioed'
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This is why I'm somewhat concerned for the Forced Hesitation buff coming up for the new chapter release. It'll allow the Killer to easily slug everyone, especially if they also run Infectious Fright.
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One idea I had was whenever you’re put into the dying state you have a 10% (or some other number) chance of having the ability to pick yourself up like having the chance to unhook yourself on first hook. This way, the killer is taking more of a risk with slugging. This could even be taken a step further by increasing the percent for each survivor in the dying or hooked state. Meaning if all survs are hooked or dying, the dying survs have even more of a chance of being able to pick themselves up. This would make it even riskier for the killer to try and slug multiple people. The number could also change based on the number of living survs as well. So when there is only two survs left alive and the killer slugs one in order to get the 4k, the slugged surv has an even greater chance of being able to pick themselves up because there are only two living survs left. This way slugging can still be a potential strategy for killers that really want the 4k, but it’s a much bigger risk for them to take instead of just picking up and hooking.
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I agree mostly with you nars but Trotay also has a point.
Yes, killers in this state of the game are not as strong or frighting as they used to be. And if you want to do something about gen rushing you really have to take 4 regression perks. Gen kicking a is useless mechanic if you dont build for it.
But i also think that slugging (only with 2 survivors left) is a very frustrating mechanic for survivors. And there has to be a way for 2 survivors to still win with 2 or 3 gens left.
So i think its best to not make a base kit chance but a new perk.
Learning from mistakes
Every time you fully repair a generator or unhook a survivor you get a token, up to 3 tokens.
When there are only 2 survivors left this perk activates, giving you the following benefits.
- If one other survivor gets downed while you are in the dying state you can pick yourself up by spending 1 token
- 50% haste for 5 seconds after picking yourself up with this perk
Once you used this perk 3 times it deactivates.
This is just something i thought of right now and i think its pretty balanced. It prevents slugging for 2 survivors up to 8 times if you combine it with unbreakable. In my opinion, base kit changes are a very hot potato and only should be made as absolute last option. If survivors hate one mechanic like slugging, 3genning or tunneling specifically they should build against it and not just be saved from all danger by the games base mechanics. As survivor you should not be able to counter every mechanic with just one build, its not the purpose of perks to make you a all rounder. They only should help with one or two things specifically.
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Wait so you think survivors are OP? Lmao if that was the case then the kill/sacrifice rate should be lower than 50%, yet it's 60%
I think you're solely talking about SWFs in this aspect that all bring commodious, BNP, and do not stop to heal or do literally anything else and are god loopers as well as bringing the best map possible for them
In actual gameplay, ie solo queue, this won't happen at all lol
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You are absolutely right about that. Theres no frustration like being slugged for the 4k knowing theirs nothing you or your teammate can do to stop it. Right now, the only real "counterplay" is disconnecting, which is more of a necessary exploit than counterplay. I think that if everyone alive is down, you should be given to choice to bleedout but that doesnt solve this issue, more that of bleedout bming. We could make that universal and always avaliable, but then angry survivors will just instakill themselves at the first down. hard issue to solve, as long as kills dictate victories stuff like tunneling and slugging will be an issue.
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I dont recall ever saying survivors are overpowered. All I did was point out that killer is at a disadvantage right now, that doesnt automatically make me think survivors are overpowered. I'd actually say survivor isnt the issue, its the lack of effective generator regression. I dont want the 3 gen meta back, I just want to know kicking a generator will actually be useful. maybe buff it at base to 150% instead of 100? That way only overbrine would get it up to 200%, and it would be minimally worthwhile to actually bother kicking gens.
I'd like to mention that the killrate stats are from months ago, when the gen kick meta was in action. The meta very notorious for making the game unwinnable for survivors, by making gens lose all their progress at lightspeed. If the killrate was 60% average then, when killer clearly had the upper hand, I would wager its dropped since. Probably not my a major amount, definitely still hanging around the 50-60 area. But probably below the desired 60%, since most often gens get completed if the survivors know what their doing. Also, it doesnt need to be that low (less than 50%) to be telling of an issue. The difference between nurse, blight and spirits killrates of 61% and trappers 56% is just 5%. I'd imagine its maybe gone down 2-3% in average since the gen regression nerf. After all, if progress is staying, gens get done more. And if gens are getting done the gates are opening, meaning people are getting out.
I'm not just talking about SWFs, though they make it unbearably stupid. People in soloQ bring toolboxes and stuff all the time. Because their strong. Why wouldn't they, if they wanna win bring meta and toolboxes are definitely meta. Just one good toolbox can shift a game pretty fast, especially with multiple. Which, in my experience, there tends to be. Not to mention 1 bnp=25% of a gen near instantly. A BNP does 1/20 of all gen progress in 5 seconds. Just one is that good. A solo can easily bring a commodius toolbox and slap on a BNP with wire spool and get crazy value. Dont even need any perks. The point I was trying to make was that the lack of effective generator regression directly conflicts with how quickly progress can be accumulated. Survivors have started to catch on to this idea and have since been using more toolboxes and stuff from what I've seen.
All I really said was "Due to the innate lack of generator regression as of late, generator progression has become more consistent and potent" gen progress that happens is gonna stay bc gen regression is all but dead. So the more progress you get done, the better. Thats always been the case of course, the difference now being the killers options to counteract it have dwindled significantly. I think thats one reason adrenaline has spiked in usage so much. Its value became much more consistent. Stall perks were nerfed hard enough that it became more likely all the gens would pop against a killer playing fairly, therefore bring adrenaline. Thats probably one of the reasons tunneling has also spiked. Gen kick, while completely overpowered, did allow lower tier killers to win without tunneling. And now that the safety net of overbrine is gone, their last ditch effort became tunneling early. I think the update was a net positive though, which some changes dbd could be in its healthiest state yet.
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