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Sloppy Butcher Nerf When?
This perk used for anti-heal and it was fine. But now, CoH and medkits nerfed into ground. So this perk is not fine anymore. Here my reasons why i don't think this perk is busted now:
- This perk is the biggest reason why Solidarity, Reactive Healing and Resurgence are bad perks. Just chase survivor for 5 - 6 seconds and they will lose all value they had from these perks. Terrible design.
- This perk makes self heal even worse. Self-Care + Botany combo or medkit, whatever you have. This perk makes self-heal so worse than before. Healing yourself is takes ages to finish.
- It is creating free pressure for killers. They don't need to even chase you. Hit survivor and leave. If they heal, it's fine. They are not on gen, they will waste good time and you can hit them again. If they don't heal and try to do gens? This is also fine because this means you will get downs faster. Sloppy is creates lose/lose scenarios for survivors.
- If survivors stop self-heal and try to altruistic healing, this is also free pressure for killer. 2 survivors are not on gen and healing slowly.
- And now this perk is on every killer's build. You will see this perk even more than old Ruin. Or they will bring add-ons which have same effects (Some killers have this type addons).
- And also Thana is rising to meta again. If you stay injured, Thana will slow your gens. If you don't stay injured, you are not on gens and this is also good slowdown for killers. Thana is works so good with anti-heal builds now since self heal gutted.
So like i said, this perk was fine before. But now , after all of healing nerfs this perk can not stay in the game like this. We nerfed CoB because it was in every game before nerf. Now it is Sloppy. I hope there is plans to make this perk more fun and fair for both sides.
Comments
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The perk doesn’t need the increased regression it gives. The normal haemorrhage is enough
Otherwise it’s fine if a bit annoying to fight
2 -
I will be fine if they remove one of the effects. 2 effects are just so much at the current meta.
2 -
I think the "percentage" debuff should go. 25% on 16sec isnt much, but 24sec is. It should be a fixed number at +4sec.
For Haemorrhage, the constant regressing is too much, getting found means you lose all progression. Which your medkit will be completely wasted. I think Haemorrhage should make it if you stop healing mid way (or missing a skill check which also pause the healing), the progression lose 33% of its current progression.
1 -
So nerf all gen regress first and then your wanting to nerf sloppy the main counter to healing which if your good at the game is still really strong. Sloppy is fine it's mostly used for hit and run builds which are high risk high reward at best. Anything can be oppressive when the player(s) are better than you.
22 -
Not a right comparison.
8 -
Sounds like you want the perk to basically do nothing. The entire purpose of sloppy is to make healing take longer. That's the core of the perk. It's an amazing way to help hit and run playstyle which was almost impossible in the last meta. It's finally back as a viable way to play a killer and I think that's great. It opens up new killers and more interesting games. Get safe and heal. As survivor I always bring COH now because if my teammates run into the circle we get a free "we'll make it". Sloppy is only especially difficult if you were used to ducking behind a corner and healing within terror radius. Go get safe and put some thought into recovery now that you can't just use 1/3 of your green med kit to heal right in front of the killers face.
23 -
Healing nerfs on survivors werent all that bad. How about we stop nerfing every perk that makes it little bit harder for survivors?
I still heal myself fine 2 times per match and most people are now using we'll make it or botany to balance the few extra seconds.
21 -
You still have anti-gen perks: PR , Pop, Corrupt, Jolt, Eruption etc. But you also added Sloppy Butcher to your builds because it is much stronger than before with all of healing nerfs.
So do not act like you have no weapons for gens anymore. You still have very solid combos. But this perk is making healing so worse and after all of healing nerfs , this perk should not be that strong and effective.
5 -
Can you list the difference between live version and my suggestion?
1 -
How about we stop nerfing every perk that makes it little bit harder for killers? No? But we did that, don't we? We nerfed perks from both sides because of complains.
If perks are creating unfair scenarios, they needs to go. Simple. It does not matter which side has it, it should not be in the game.
4 -
If you really wanted to nerf Sloppy, removing the increased regression modifier wouldn’t really do anything. It’s not an extra 25% total per second, it’s 25% of 7% for an extra 1.75% per second or 8.75% per second total which is barely any difference.
3 -
Survivors have multiple perks to counter slower healing. Only perk that gets hit hard this patch was self-care which is a perk that NO ONE should be running the first place.
Change your perk load out. Stop using the same old same old. Put a healing perk in there, remove the windows of opportunity and add we'll make it. Adrealine is a good choice too. I use it. I always stay injured the last gen because i know i have a perk that will heal me automatically.
Why is it that everytime something gets little bit harder it needs to be nerfed to the ground?
Also CoH nerf was needed. That perk was trouble from the beginning and if im honest its still very strong and troublesome perk.
DH nerf.. is it really a nerf? You can still use it 2 times. Its not un usable like Overcharge and brine are right now.
8 -
I agree. I’d keep the haemorrhage and extra blood pools but remove mangled.
Gift of pain can then be the mangled perk because right now sloppy is way better
0 -
Fair enough. Always found it odd they added that in the first place though
2 -
Oh yes, i really like this mind: Bring perks bro
I am solo
Killers are tunnelling us. Use DS (even it is garbage atm) or OTR (meh perk).
But they are also slugging us. Bring UB bro, it works.
How about campers? Reassurance and Kindred are your answer my pal, i have more good advices for you.
But killers are using these strats for free. They are also bringing perks which helps them. How i will counter them? You also have perks to counter their perks!
But how? I only have 4 perk slots. Which perks i will bring? Counter perks for killer meta perks? Or counter perks for Slugging, Tunnelling and Camping which is free strats for killers?
5 -
Can i recommend a good build? Adrealine, Sprint burst, reassurance and we'll make it. Sure it has no anti tunneling, but i doubt you are getting tunneled and camped and slugged in every single match. ( i play soloQ too or with my boyfriend, and we do fine with this build. We counter the campers and we heal fast.
DS is not garbage if you make a build around it. Otherwise good survivors wouldn't use it.
It happens sure killers tunnel and camp and do all them nasties, but you know killers need perks to counter survivors as well. Survivors demanding nerfs to every single perk starts getting a bit tiredsome after a while. You just got 2 of the strongest gen perks destroyed, Pain ress is..well it is what it is. Healing was slowed to counter this loss for the killers. Slobby helps to slow down the games when survivors bring 4 prove thyself, toolboxes and brand new parts.
You never think the game from both sides do you?
3 -
I refuse in any way shape or form that Sloppy Butcher is nerfed, I have this perk since the beginning of my day in DBD, it helps me finding Survivors while also creating enough slowness to keep Survivors off gens.
3 -
you heard it here folks.......no one should use self care....take it out of the game because he said so
3 -
Why would you use a perk that heals you in what...60+ seconds? more if with slobby? Why would you want to destroy your team with 1 minute healing in a corner while you can have a medkit with 2 heals + adrealine? Are you that afraid of staying injured?
2 -
Dude, it’s a 1v4.
Counter sloppy with a healing perk. It’s not hard.
You know how to counter tunneling, slugging, and camping? Being good in chase. I don’t even mean that in a “git gud” fashion, but legitimately being good in chase hard counters all of those “free tactics”.
Not to mention, SWF is a free tactic to everybody. There are tons of ways to find a SWF. Stop playing solo, find a SWF.
We cannot just nerf every killer perk that brings inconvenience to survivors. “Sloppy gives killers free pressure and I don’t like how long my heal takes” is not a reason to nerf.
9 -
Imagine having self care when you can have No Mither and Sprint Burst/Dead Hard.
1 -
First SB is boring perk for sure. I never loved this perk. I want to run any time i want, this perk takes this from me.
Adrenaline is fine. I am using it time to time. We'll Make It is another boring perk, you need hook save for it. I prefer Botany even it is 50% but all time.
Reassurance is fine perk but forced to bring perk sadly. I don't wanna run a perk which will counter campers. I wanna be free with my builds. But sadly i can't.
And here, i am talking about survivor issue, this post was about Sloppy. I did not say all survivor perks or stuffs are fine. I would agree for nerfing toolboxes, PT and removing BNP. And you did not say but some maps needs serious survivor nerfs: Coldwind, The Game, Garden of Joy etc.
So don't villainize me please. I am not that type. Just because you and your bf have great time while playing survivor, this does not mean everyone have similar experience.
3 -
yes. because allowing your teammates to do gens while you heal yourself is a bad thing. i play enough solo q to know if they arent healing me there is a better chance they are doing gens.
1 -
I honestly think that the perk is fine as is, for the time being.
2 -
Nerf toolboxes and BNP?
Why, like why?
0 -
Oh my well there it is.. You refuse to use good perks that counter issues.
Because you think something is boring to use is not a legit reason to nerf a killer perk that is very much needed at the moment in this game.
Killers have to adjust to new perks. Survivors can do the same.
I adjusted to sprint burst, i was a 100% DH user. I never used we'll make it. I adjusted and learned to enjoy the perk. I save a lot of people so it works for me.
Also im not trying to make villain out of you i'm simply pointing out the fact that you yourself don't want to change your perks or your build or so it sounds like at least. I can understand not liking to use sprint burst there are plenty of option, but botany will kill your medkit usage which makes your self caring harder, otherwise good perk
5 -
And do you know not everyone are SWF in this game. And i don't like to play with some people i don't know maybe? Not everyone are tryharder in this game.
And do you know you can't decide which solo survivors you will get. I am fine at loops. I can buy some time for my team. But this all out of topic. We are talking about Sloppy started to be problematic perk.
3 -
not to mention all swf arent "good" ....but try to tell that to people here and you get nowhere
1 -
Out of topic? You literally brought all these points up and I responded to it.
Sloppy is not a problematic perk. Altruistic healing is stronger than it ever was. Bring boon, bring we’ll make it, or botany. There are options to counter sloppy if it really bothers you this much.
7 -
Why not?
Like i said, you have a lot problems in this game. And you can't get perks for fix every problem you have. It's not that simple. You limited with 4 perk slots.
If i bring perks you mentioned, i can't counter slugging and tunnelling. If i bring perks for counter this strats, then i have to deal with slow heals or some other problems.
Tunnelling and slugging are very popular strats btw, i don't know how you can say you won't see this type killers in every game. I almost seeing this type killers 70% of my time.
Perks can not be fix for all DbD problems. That's why we need to talk and make them change game.
And ofcourse, like i said if you open topic for killers i will support it as well if your points makes sense to me. I am not one-sided player.
1 -
What is the problem with toolbox?
Same with Sloppy, the only point of it is to stop fast healing.
0 -
Honest i dont see slugging much. Maybe we play on different servers so games are different i don't know, but slugging isnt used much or at least i personally do not see it.
Tunneling sure it happens but what can you do. Tunneling also comes from core problems that needs to be fixed in the game. Ask yourself sometimes why do killers tunnel. Is it because its an easy win or is it because gens go too fast and maps are too imbalanced? You will never get rid of tunneling, but i'm sure some killers would start playing more "fair" if maps + some of the survivor perks and items were adjusted.
I also don't believe you are getting tunneled, camped and slugged every single game you play.
Lets say slobby gets nerfed...killers start using gift of pain. How long would it take for you to make another post for gift of pain to get nerfed? See my point here? You will never be happy unless you win 100% of your games?
5 -
So another Nerf to killers just so survivors can have easier games.
🐽
6 -
Yeah i heard this a lot:
Nerf DS, killers will stop tunnelling. Nerf DH, killers will stop tunnelling. Nerf CoH, killers will stop tunnelling.
This never gonna happen. If you wanna really stop tunnelling, you need to add mechanic which will punish tunnellers.
And i am asking core game changes as well. Not for one side, for all sides. Solo - SWF - Killer. I know this game can not be balanced perfectly but we can ask for the closest version.
2 -
TIL OTR is a "meh" perk. That's where this person lost all credibility.
3 -
Yeah, it is amazing perk. That's why it is sooooo meta perk.
2 -
Sloppy is fine. The base healing is the same. If it was nerfed, then I can see nerfing Sloppy.
1 -
We'll have to see about Sloppy in the long run. - Though I do start to notice it being somewhat omnipresent and I also do start to notice people in swf demanding that at least one person has sth to significantly speed up healing and healing speed perks being way more frequent in SoloQ too. (I always brought at least one perk that speeds up healing cause I can't be bothered to watch another progress bar move painfully slowly so i can't really talk about how my own perk choices have changed.)
That to me is an indicator that something is off; Since killers have very different mechanics a perk that is valid on all of them is usually a bit of a red flag. It then depends on how much it adds in terms of being oppressive. Here comes the increase in healing perks on the survivor side into play: apparently it is oppressive enough that people regularly invest a perk slot to remove (some of) the pressure. - Which is atm just short of being an obligatory perk category. (And if bringing certain perks/perk categories becomes obligatory something really is off balance wise.)
Though, rather than Sloppy as a perk I think Mangled/Hemorrhage as status effects maybe need some looking at. They got huge buffs last year in no small part to help killers with survs healing as fast and efficiently. Or more specifically: self-healing fast and efficiently. This is now changed on the survivor side (as it should be) - consequently some of the earlier adjustments on the killer side might need some dialling back now.
2 -
I think these perks should cancel Hemorrage (leaving the mangled effect). This is the only change i think need they need.
Sloppy is a quite balanced perk, as it requires safety + coordination for healing
2 -
Ds is garbage
4 -
The speed debuff needs to go now that it was tacked onto self-healing at base. There's too much sitting and watching bars fill on survivor. You sit there and watch Jolt hit a gen, then watch Pain Res hit the gen, etc. We're already sitting on single gens for 2 minutes straight at times. And now self-heals take 30+ seconds with Sloppy. Gameplay should be speeding up, not slowing down.
2 -
Just buff resurgence and solidarity
2 -
Survivors don't need a compensation buff for the self healing nerfs. Survivors already have plently of tools to improve healing and healing others is untouched. Take advantage of those if sloppy is such an issue.
6 -
Sloppy is mostly fine the way it is.
It's interaction with Resurgence, Solidarity, and Reactive Healing might need looked at, but no other aspect of the perk is a problem.
In your OP you called it Free so many times. Sloppy Butcher is applied via basic hits. In what universe is the killer landing an M1 on you free? Is it something they were going to do anyway? Yeah probably, but the actual act of getting a hit is not free.
0 -
Alright, let me adress some of your points:
"This perk is the biggest reason why Solidarity, Reactive Healing and Resurgence are bad perks. Just chase survivor for 5 - 6 seconds and they will lose all value they had from these perks. Terrible design." I agree that these perks should counter the HEMORRAGE and NOT THE MANGLED part. You should keep you healing progress, even if it take a little bit longer to complete the heal.
"If survivors stop self-heal and try to altruistic healing, this is also free pressure for killer. 2 survivors are not on gen and healing slowly." - Thats the whole reason of the healing nerf update. The self-healing last patch were atrociously fast, making killers lose 30 to 90s seconds of chase in a matter os 12s to 8s. Want to self heal? You will need to accept it will be slower, or find someone to heal you faster than you can. Healing was busted before (and still is in some cases) and its a healthy change for the game.
"It is creating free pressure for killers. They don't need to even chase you. Hit survivor and leave. If they heal, it's fine. They are not on gen, they will waste good time and you can hit them again. If they don't heal and try to do gens? This is also fine because this means you will get downs faster. Sloppy is creates lose/lose scenarios for survivors." Hit and run is not free pressure, as if a killer makes a mistake he/she can lose all the pressure in a matter of seconds, specially if some of the survivors have We'll Make it, CoH or Botanic.
"And now this perk is on every killer's build. You will see this perk even more than old Ruin. Or they will bring add-ons which have same effects (Some killers have this type addons)." You need to consider that if the killer is bringing a chase/anti-healing perk, he/she is giving up on gen regression/game stalling/endgame perks. Its not for free. Most of the killers that make good usage of sloppy are m1 killers like Pig or Freddy or they are stealth killers like Wraith, Ghostface, Sadako. The only strong killer that can have Hemorrage + Bleed on addons is Nurse, but she is a problem by itself.
Anyway, there is so much to discuss, but i want to end this post by saying two things:
- Self healing was broken before this patch. We should not want to go back to it, as it was not healthy for the game (as the trigen kick perks too). Healing yourself 2 to 3 time in 8s all alone was not fine and i'm happy its not more possible.
- Sloppy is a good perk to slowdown heals and TO TRY to stop people from healing. Not every killer can make good usage of it, and even those who do, should give up on something to add Sloppy Butcher to their builds. its a BUILD CHOICE. Don't want to be affect by anti-healing? Start using healing perks like Inner Strengh, Botanic, CoH, We'll Make It. Otherwise, you will need to deal with slower healings.
1 -
I am with you that its terrible design that Sloppy destroys all value from the likes of Solidarity, Reactive Healing and Resurgence, but how about we slightly buff this perks with a very simple change, instead of completely nerfing one of the last good general killer perks?
"Buff: perks that give a set ammount of instant healing progress, like Solidarity, Reactive Healing and Resurgence, have this healing protected, ie its uneffected by Haemorraghing effects and bleeding damage".
This would give this perks a lot of value in todays meta, while not destroying Sloppys value; at least Sloppy being meta let someone to equip one of these perks instead of something else, thats value in itself.
But you can't just take and take and take stuff away, till one role is just a husk. Both sides need to accept that the other side might actually have perks that are useful in specific or even general situations. Its ok for a survivor to vault a window and Lithe away, thats powerful, yes, but thats this perks purpose and why its got exhaustion slapped on and can't be spammed. And Sloppy Butcher makes healing even less effective and getting interrupted during a heal really painful, ouch, but THATS its purpose.
Don't ask for nerfs for any and all perks that are slightly more inconvinient then their peers, deal with it! Otherwise this game will become more and more shallow, with less and less room for fun or interesting or surprising situations. And its already bad enough at this, so lets try to get this game back on its feet again, instead of kicking it even more when its down.
2 -
The issues with Tool boxes and BNP along with Gen speed perks need to be looked at because now with even less Gen defense perks Gens are going faster then before.
One of the biggest complaints by Killers is how fast gens are repaired. This is magnified by the size of many maps, Gen speed perks, Toolboxes, BNP. Currently many Killers with no travel based power can lose at least 2 gens on large or complicated maps (like Treatment Theater and The Game) by the time they find where the Survivor's are.
One many things they can do is adjust maps sizes but with no cap to repair speeds this can still be a moot point.
3 -
Look balance to me, no perks over 20% compared to survivors.
There is no "Free Pressure", they take time to chase and hit you. You have windows and pallet to defends.
If you find it annoy, then build the perks of healing to counter it. Simple. or stacking gen rush or second chance perk is your favorite?
7 -
I see, but I still think it's fine, you're not going to win every game anyway.
0 -
Yes your not but you should still have a chance at winning.....
1
