Rant:This game is all about how miserable can your opponent make you

The suggestion to bring unbreakable is a valid one regardless of how the match plays out.

People complain about being slugged and how it ruins their game, well there is a perk for that and if you don’t like being slugged you should probably bring it.

The same reason I run lightborn a lot. While you can avoid a flashy save it’s so much easier to not worry about it at all.

Does it always get use no, but I don’t like having to worry about flashlights so I often bring the perk.

If your gripe about the game is you hate being slugged then bring the perk that helps you evade being slugged.

If your gripe about the game is you hate everything and want to bring your choice build while avoiding anything the opponent might do that you hate, then your complaint isn’t very realistic.

Sure, even so none of these things are something to get angry about As the OP puts it “making the game miserable for the opponent” it’s just gameplay.

Without these things there is very little variation in game outcome.

Bleeding out is just part of the game and a rather thematic part at that.

It takes 4 mins in accumulated time which is not long at all.

One could argue that the threat of being slugged is a great motivator to avoid being caught making games intense and interesting.

The more uncomfortable the consequences the higher the stakes. I appreciate that threat as it’s what makes dbd an interesting game to play.

Bleeding out is timed and that timer is relatively short. When slugged I like to try and crawl to a good hiding spot to avoid being picked up and hooked thus preserving my hook states in the event I do get healed.

The goal is to avoid the killer so that if all slugged and bleeding out you are the last one who can play for hatch. Crawling toward common hatch spawn sites is a good bet and gotten me an escape more than once.

The game isn’t over till everyone is dead and I’ll play it to the bitter end. There is nothing boring or frustrating about that, it’s all in your head.

Ah the ol "other people complain so why can't we argument" as if that lends legitimacy to any kind of complaint. But lets unpack it anyway.

That does happen in a way, players whine all the time about survivors hanging out at the gates for the full 3min timer. Not exactly the same but its players whining about timers so semi relevant.

People whine no matter what side they choose to affiliate themselves with, moreso if they have chosen a particular side, because blind tribalism tends to obscure objectivity.

About the only time it makes sense to shorten the bleed out timer is if all players a slugged and there is no way to recover the team. It makes sense in that scenario to speed up the timer.

Otherwise 4min is not the end of the world any shorter and you'd probably bleed out too quick if repeatedly slugged throughout the game. (maybe 3 mins would work, but the goal is to give your teammates enough time to pick you up before you bleed out).

Also slugging, and knowing when to slug are important tools in the killer arsenal so we don't want to completely remove it.

A base kit UB would just render a lot of play options mute making it a relatively bad fix also.

Being downed needs to remain a genuine threat to avoid, if you could just pick yourself up for free then where is the threat? So not a great idea.

Its good advice to say if you don't like being slugged then bring unbreakable. There is a tool to help you escape from that condition so use it.

"But I want to avoid being slugged while still brining the build of my choice waah" is the common response to that and now we are moving into the realm player entitlement which leads to stale meta.

We can all bring the most optimal build possible every game because there are no in game effects we have to consider or avoid as the tools to avoid them are all built in. Why have perks at all at that point?

So the ol mantra goes lets get rid of this one "boring' effect because it takes too long, by making the game less varied, threatening, exciting and generally more stale on the whole, that'll fix the bor... er... wait a minute?

That's why there is a timer, you bleed out and the game ends. The problem you are describing has already been fixed. The bleed out timer is the shot clock.

Yes the times have changed and they did so with the very fix you are describing.

So with reference to the new complaint... is the bleed out timer too long? I don't think so for reasons already discussed, but maybe they could reduce it by one minute down to 3 to further lessen the wait.

You've both posed and answered your own point so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make anymore.

You've also contradicted your other other point of the game is fun but not fun but lets just leave that eh.

Well keeping it objective in answer to your vague loaded question, given its not really a problem you should be good to go no matter how many times you bleed out.

If you find yourself bleeding out a lot I'd work harder on avoiding the killer, maybe bring unbreakable if you really don't like it.

Hope that helps.

so basically, bring unbreakable to avoid being slugged. and once ive used unbreakable the first time and i get slugged again. then what?

There would definitely need to be some conditions to it. It would have to work different than unbreakable. Maybe instead of being able to recover fully right away you can get a second recovery bar that activates say 10 seconds after the first one has been filled. At that point it would be clear the killer is slugging but also give the survivors and killers time to change up their strategy. The killer would then have to pick you up or lose the hook opportunity.

Is slugging 4 people healthy for the game?

i think the real reason camping and tunneling are left the way it is. because they know if these two things are dealt with kill rates would drop significantly. and they dont wanna hurt those numbers. because they mean everything

Basically this, bring unbreakable and use it wisely.

Slugging forces survivor interaction and teamwork which is a big part of the game.

The primary gripe here seems to be people don't want to wait out the 4 mins when the whole team is slugged and the killer is just letting them bleed out.

Now we don't want a mechanic that just basically removes slugging because its an important tool the killer has and its a mechanic the forces necessary teamwork from the survivors, survivor is about teamwork. Its also another motivation to no be caught by the killer and allows for all kinds of play such as baiting out pallet saves ect. Also downing all survivors and removing their ability to complete the objective is a legitimate way to win the game as killer.

Slugging in of itself is not a bad thing... so we don't need a mechanic that all but destroys it. Like built in UB.

How do we keep slugging but remove the tedious disliked wait of bleeding out while the killer doesn't hook?

The answer is to tweak the time it takes to bleed out in that scenario. We either shorten the time overall or introduce a mechanic that quickens the bleed out timer when all survivors are down and can't pick themselves up.

I don't think that's an unreasonable suggestion.

I definitely think under certain situations there should be a shift in the match on what the survivors and the killer can do. Not so much of a shift that it gives either side a big advantage but rather it makes it feel like you're still able to do something without having to overstress yourself. If 2 survivors are left and 3+ gens are left to do then the last 2 survivors don't have much incentive to put forth the extra work required for the same outcome had all the survivors made it and just a few more BPs. I think a lot of people just give up in those situations, but I also see situations where they try. I'll keep trying in that situation but it hardly ever works out in my favor. It usually ends with giving the last survivor the hatch chance, or the last survivor completely forgetting the hatch exists and goes for a save in a hopeless situation.

You make a good suggestion here, I think the primary issue though isn't so much being slugged or even bleeding out as a mechanic.

The primary complaint people have is the scenario where the whole team lies on the ground and bleeds out while the killer refuses to hook. In that scenario you'd be looking at speeding up timers to close the game out rather than wait around for the 4 mins.

You wouldn't remove the viability of slugging as a strategy to apply pressure but still attenuate the major complaint people have with slugging, which is the slow bleed out of the whole survivor team. Which is what I'm proposing.

Its impactful where it needs to be without removing the gameplay that slugging and bleed out initiates.

I don't disagree with you on a mechanic like you suggest I'm just trying to focus on the major point of contention people have which seems to be the everyone bleeds out for 4 mins scenario.

EDIT: although if that timer was too fast it would make mass slugging the team more viable than hooking so you might see an increase in the behaviour as it becomes more efficient than trying to hook. The suggestion is not without it's own caveats.

Maybe UB could reactivate, in the scenario that all 4 survivors get slugged thus giving you an additional out and some more viability to it as a perk for avoiding the bleed out.