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Sloppy Butcher is out of control...
Sloppy butcher's increased pick rate since the medkit/healing nerf heavily explain the issue. The perk is definitely being abused to make nerfed healing even more punishing; please tweak the numbers or make it have more requirements to activate.
Something other than basic hit making healing take even longer AND depleting when interrupted.
Comments
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I feel it wasn't an issue before the healing/medkit nerf but now since those changes have came, ALL of these anti-healing perks need to be looked at; especially Sloppy Butcher.
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They don't nerf altruistic healing at all. Sloppy only effects you if you're self healing. Just stay injured and pound gens. As a killer I'm wincing giving that advice but it is the counter. As killer I always laugh as people heal through sb. It means the match is being handed to me.
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Healing each other wasn't touched and survivors have many different perk options for healing perks. Sloppy does not need to be nerfed when nerfing self healing was the point.
Also I played a few games last night and didn't even encounter sloppy so it seems like a massive overreaction
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Bud, the only thing that seems to truly be out of control right now is the uncapped gen speed. If you want better healing, then take healing perks. We're all still in the adaptation period for the new stuff and making injuries matter more was one of the main points of the changes.
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I dont understand. Why Sloppy Butcher is strong (-20% healing speed), but Botany Knowledge (+50% healing speed) its ok?
Sloppy its a killer perk with healthy numbers. Survivors have perks to counter it too (And stronger).
Why survivors want to play with 4 chase perks and second chances, but don't want to use slots for information or healing speed when the killer does?
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Just run botany. Its a decent perk by itself and it still gives a slight bonus even with the debuff from sloppy.
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It's exactly same as before for altruistic healing.
Only M1 killers can effectively use it.
We finally managed to bring back playstyle other than tunneling and you want to nerf best perk for it?
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Can't wait for the next calm spirit and pharmacy nerf
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I think it depends on the killer, but most m1 killers run it I find atm, anti-heal has always been common in order to counter self healing even before the medkit/circle of healing nerfs. I think the issue is less the debuff itself and more the lack of counter play to said perk other than commit to the heal. I don't think its an over reaction to say its a commonly used perk for some killers.
I think walking/staying still shouldn't cause the bleed effect, I'd say removed on a hooked survivor but gift of pain exists. Healing also shouldn't be able to go lower than 35 percent. The issue is the effects it has on perkless gameplay. Botany knowledge doesn't really work as an answer for self healing since it increases the item efficiency debuff. Desperate Measures is cancelled out by it in most cases and Resurgence/Solidarity/Reactive Healing are entirely useless against it for the most part.
I don't think much needs changed, just the haemorhage rework always felt a bit heavy handed and not really that interactive.
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Because the secondary effect of sloppy butcher is that healing regresses incredibly quickly if you pause or stop healing for any reason. It's a second effect that is also a huge upside to the perk.
The secondary effect of botany knowledge is a debuff to medkit efficiency. So much so that you are required to run an extra charges add-on to even be able to use a medkit to heal yourself, and it becomes impossible not only to heal yourself twice with a medkit but also impossible to heal yourself with a medkit you find in a chest. The only way to offset this is to run a second perk (self care, streetwise, ace in the hole, etc) at which point you're using at least two perk slots.
In the end, the second effect of botany knowledge is a huge downside to offset the primary bonus.
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Complaining about a perk doing what it's supposed to do.
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The change to medkits is to fix the gross abuse of self-heals and encourage team healing. The base healing speed still the same before the midpatch.
You are complaining about the Haemorrhage status. This effect was useless until they reworked it. The effect is not overpowered, it just does its job.
If a Survivor heals near the Killer and the Killer interrupts their healing, it's not the Killer's fault. Same with healing under a hook.
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Just about to write the same thing before I saw your comment. The hypocrisy of some people here is astounding.
I run botany in half of my survivor games and don't notice the existence of sloppy at all. Some people just need a new reason to worry about. If sloppy gets nerfed, they'll find something new.
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Survivors on Killer Perks: If it's picked allot, this proves it's too strong and should be nerfed.
Survivors On Survivor Perks: If it's picked allot, it means it's in a good place and should never be nerfed.
Also; a perk being used is not being 'abused' when it's doing exactly what it's meant too.
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I'm not the person who posted originally.
You asked why sloppy butcher and botany knowledge have different speed bonuses, and I simply gave the reason why. That's it.
I'm sorry you don't like the answer, but you can't just ignore half of each perk and cry imbalance when the part you cherry picked doesn't match.
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Sorry if I have not explained myself well but I am going to expand my answer a bit since what I put or omit is not by chance, but because I am not an English-speaking player, and it is easier for me to answer short and simple things.
First of all, I have not asked why sloppy and botany have different bonuses, I simply let you see that one of them seems bad to the community, but nobody talks about the other, therefore it may be that it is balanced according to the community.
I am very aware of the penalty that botanical knowledge has regarding medkits, but the perk numbers are high enough to allow you to heal another survivor at the same rate as if you had a medkit.
The only case where Sloppy Butcher can be better than Botanic Knowledge is when a Survivor self-heals. And when it happens, it's more of a survivor's mistake.
The community has to be aware that the most optimal way to use the medkits is to heal others and not themselves. If the killer uses Sloppy butcher, and you self-heal, you are risking making a mistake. My conclusion is that sloppy butcher is balanced, but survivors want to play without worrying about being dependent on another player.
Lastly, what you call "cry imbalance", I call it "debating". We all have the possibility to express and argue our opinion. In the end, most of the changes that are made come because people "cry".
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Sloppy hasn't changed though
It's self healing being nerfed that's changed
Sloppy is fine. Either run healing perks to mitigate it, or bring aura perks to find your teammates to get healed.
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I was just explaining the bonuses. The way you presented it made it sound as though you were expecting sloppy butcher to have a 50% or higher debuff to healing to match botany, despite the secondary effects. That's all I was trying to comment on.
Likely the reason you aren't seeing complaints about Botany is because, as I said before, the perk is infrequently used because it requires at least one, if not more than one, additional perk slot or item addon to function. If you are running Botany, you are likely running self care as well, which is 2 perks to self heal, and even Botany with its extra downside isn't enough to fully offset the horrendously slow healing speed from SC.
If you're using botany to heal others, you are vastly better off with We'll Make It, which has 100% healing speed bonus and no debuff, but is on a very long timer. Or even Desperate Measures, which is just a variable passive bonus.
Sloppy butcher needs no additional perks to function, and is incredibly popular. I'd be surprised if SB wasn't in the top 3 killer perks right now. You get value from the perk just by having it and playing exactly as you would without it. And even if Botany would overcome the sloppy butcher bonus, you'd still need every survivor to be running it to just to "counter" the mangled portion of the perk.
It's the same reason no one is complaining about Inner Healing. IH completely bypasses both parts of Sloppy Butcher's effect, but almost no one runs it, so no one cares. An incredible number of killers are running SB right now.
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Well we can ask the killer mains the same thing. As soon as survivors find another perk to move on to its complaint for a nerf.
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Then the next perk will be nerfed. Honestly, they just need to look at all of the antihealing perks.
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This comment is all kinds of whacky. For one you don't need additional perks to run Botany. That's just your assumption. Secondly when comparing altruistic healing options We'll Make it is indeed stronger but only lasts 90 seconds and require that you unhook for it. Desperate measures is only 14% healing speed per injured survivor, up to 56%. If everyone on your team is injured something is wrong somewhere. Meanwhile Botany is just a flat 50% increased healing speed across the board. Sure you consume medkits faster but the whole point of this latest patch is that medkits shouldn't be as prevalent as they are. They need to be weaker. Self healing needs to be rare and hard to do consistently without some sort of major drawback. Altruistic healing is fine because it means multiple survivors are wasting time to do it.
Also there's this line: "And even if Botany would overcome the sloppy butcher bonus, you'd still need every survivor to be running it to just to "counter" the mangled portion of the perk."
There is no "if", it DOES overcome sloppy. Mangled only applies a 25% healing speed reduction.
As for everyone needing to run it that's not true. One person runs it and thus everyone but that person can benefit from it. If that sounds unfair then let me remind you that this is how the game is meant to be. Being injured is meant to be a penalty, not an minor inconvenience. You are supposed to waste time healing or risk getting downed easier when the killer comes for you again. Again, a penalty for getting injured.
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U fr? They literally answered ur question before u asked it lmao
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Nerfing Sloppy butcher makes no sense. If healing took 24s like in the PTB, that would make sense. But making nerfing a perk that works mainly in M1 killers its not a good thing.
Doesn't like the healing slowdown? Use Inner Strenght or Botanic.
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