Pain Resonance
While I do agree that Pain Resonance needed a nerf, I still think that a "once per survivor" system was the wrong way to go about it. For one thing Scourge Hooks are already inconsistent. Before you needed to down survivors in specific portions of the map to get use out of it, but now you need to down specific survivors to get specific portions in the map. While its regression may have been nerfed to compensate, the chances of being able to even use it in the first place have been significantly lowered.
There's also the fact that Pain Resonance is a major outlier for scourge hook perks. It is now the only Scourge Hook perk in the game where you could hook a survivor on it and nothing will happen at all. For a group of perks that require you to down someone, and then hook them on one of a small percentage of hooks in the map, something should always happen when you hook someone on one.
I would be fine if Pain Res was nerfed to the point where it only did 10% regression or something, as long as you always benefit from hooking someone on it.
Or maybe Pain Resonance could have a diminishing returns thing on it or something. I think a decent way to have a token system on Pain Res would be to have it start with 12 tokens (1 for each possible hook state) and whenever you hook someone on it it regresses the furthest along gen by 2% per token, and then you lose on token. This could keep it from getting out of hand with consecutive hooks, but still always provides value for hooking on a scourge hook.
Comments
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Pain res is potentially a perk that should be base-kit. Awhile back, they gave killer 2.5% regression for kicking a gen in hopes to get killer to not use gen delay perks but the change heavily missed its mark.
A good solution to disincentive tunneling the same 1(2) survivors would be to add base-kit regression for hooking a survivor.
Here''s an example: Entity Curse:
1 - Each time a survivor is hooked, The furthest progress generator is regressed by 25%.
2 - Killers start with 4 tokens.
3 - Each time a survivor is hooked, 1 token is removed.
4 - When all survivors have been hook once, The tokens are refreshed incurring -10% penalty towards regression.
5 - No regression is award when the survivor is sacrificed.
6 - When a survivor is killed by any means, the mechanic is disabled(including d/c). The survivors get an increase of 33% increase in healing speed and a 33% increase in all repair actions called Entity Blessing.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
No, no, hell no.
Killers really don't need this basekit. Just no
Pain Resonance is still really strong perk. You need to make sure you use it effectively (there is a gen with high progress). You can't simply use scourge hook whenever you can.
But it's still one of best slowdown perks. That's not something that should be basekit at all.
It would only make already strong killers even better. It would be really bad idea.
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It would be really bad idea.
why? Hooking survivors should be rewarding. I am do not know how to write this without sounding insulting. Survivors could run 0 good loops and the survivor still has potencial to escape killers because generator progression does not have a great enough correlation to killer's micro chase gameplay. To put mildly, you could run 0 loops correctly as survivor and you will still win like 50% of the time. that should not be the case... Being successful at downing survivors quickly as killer should be rewarding and survivor's chasing skill should impact their ability to complete the generator objective. Its why killer used gen delay perks...
I agree pain res is best regression perk still but remember what dev wrote in both the healing update and 6.1 update. Running regression should be optional, not mandatory for killer. a change like this would make it more optional rather then mandatory.
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I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment that hooking survivors should be rewarding. It's your main objective after all. And it "rewards" you by getting closer to having a survivor deas, and even one survivor being dead is a huge deal.
This is probably why hooking doesn't offer any additional rewards outside of perks and Im fine with that. Each hook related perk rewards you for hooking, but you have to do something to get that reward. For scourge hooks its hooking on specific hooks. For make your choice its not camping and then hitting the unhooker. For pgtw, you also have to kick a gen. For DMS you have to force survivors off gens somehow.
Perks that rewards hooking can be powerful since it requires a little extra besides just hooking. I dont think the base mechanic of hooking should ever be messed with honestly.
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Should be optional?
This would make it even stronger to use. They would need to nerf existing slow down perks a lot
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For the same reason as BNP should NOT be basekit. It provides 25% regression 4x (same as BNP provides up-to 25% progression per survivor). Just no. Bad idea. Also the perk is very strong. It's part of almost all of my killer builds (I remove it mainly if I decide to use deadlock instead as they have quite a significant antisynergy)
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I disagree. I bet 60%+ of killer that play at high-level would also disagree. generator regression/delay is neccassary in the game because it gives greater correlation of on killer success in micro chase. I am not joking when I say that you can play total #^$ at survivor and a strong swf with optimized gen efficiency will still finish all 5 gens despite running 0 good loops/long chases the entire game.
If you don't believe, just look at stats on perk pick-rates. Jolt, sloppy, pain res, corrupt, deadlock. These pick-rate were way higher before but they are lower now because BVHR has nerfed gen delay perks that we are getting to the point where game-delay perks are low-impact that there is almost little point in running them. that does not mean they are not necessary and that suddenly the problem has been fixed.
The problem is still there but you will experience more tunneling and more camping for purposes of slowing down the game as a result.
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Sure. But the problem is, that killers will always camp and tunnel so long as it's the easiest and most rewarding thing. This argument is just pure utter nonsense. You would need to hard-nerf those tactics before you buff killers in some other way.
Also it's not like killer is unplayable. This patch especially S-tier killers have it easy (and if you mention trapper/onryo/etc I can say the same thing with soloQ - with the difference that every killer has it easier then soloQ survivors)
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not comparable at all.
I am not hard-nerfing the tactics, I am providing incentive to NOT do those tactics. Killer was never unplayable. It will never be unplayable because if your good the game, you'll always beat weaker survivor that are worse then your killer play. This is more related to 0.1-2% of type change.
there is nothing to use. its base-kit. Why would they nerf existing slowdown perks? most of them rely on gen-kicking i.e 3 gens but all of them have been severely weakened. The other ones action speed penalty with terrible numbers/conditions/drawbacks and then there is CI+Deadlock.
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not comparable at all.
It's precisely and very well comparable. BNP's give between 15-25% progression (where 25% is most likely in higher MMR) and pain res anything between 0-25% regression (where full 25% is most likely in every MMR). How is that not comparable? I see it as perfect comparable example - where the biggest difference is that scourge hook first requires down (while survivor just need to not be interrupted for a short time or not loose toolbox from franklin's or something like that). Very similar mechanics.
I am providing incentive to NOT do those tactics
The incentive is absolutely NOT there. Because it works as just a pure bonus to camp + tunnel. It would be incentive if it made you choose - you get the bonus OR you do those tactics. BUT you are able to do both making it just pure buff. Also - the same thing and same requirement would be just there again a week later - because weaker killer player would be "forced" to do those to have chance against "OP survivors" (those he does not even see right now, because he didn't even reach soft cap to see them)
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The 12 token idea would be a straight buff from the old one. The first 5 hooks would all be worth more than 15% and overall it wouldn't give you less regression than the old one did until you get 11 scourge hooks (you'd break even on the 10th) at which point you've already won anyway.
Also, it does not need a buff at all, if anything, the regression being increased to 25% made it remain overpowered.
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If you want to be super technical about it, you could make that first hook does not regress generator. That is not how current pain works though and the idea that chasing = tunneling is messed up.
From previous discussions that I have had with you, there is little point in discussion because your one of those types of player that have very set opinion. I am just going agree to disagree. your comparison and analogy is really far off. gen regression is weird in the game because its mechanic that is lose-less and win-more at same time. If your going give a comparison then you need have a mechanic that is lose-less and win-more at the same time.
closest I could think of to this mechanic for survivor is dead hard. If we dig deeper, it applies all second chance perk but I will keep it simple. DH is comparable to this mechanic because let's say your winning the chase as survivor. you have looped killer for 45 which let just say it is average. If you hit dead hard and your successful, you can extend chases by 30 seconds, so your 45 second turned into 75 second chase. By successfully landing dead hard, your winning harder. You already looped killer 45 seconds, but now your winning harder because you looped even better then what you were suppose to loop. What was suppose to be 1 gen chase turned into 3 gen chase.
Dead hard is also lose-less mechanic. How is it lose-less? Well let's say two people are slugged on floor, everyone is injured. you get chased as survivor. you loop killer for 20 seconds. You hit Dead hard, you extend chase by +20 seconds. During the time that you looped the killer for extra 20 seconds, your team picked themselves up for slug and all 3 survivor are fully healed. From a bad situation, you comeback. this is an example of losing less. Instead of you going down, you tank a hit and reset your team.
second-chance perks are closest thing to generator regression in the game because of win-more and lose-less mechanic of the game. they're honestly too powerful but that's separate discussion in my opinion.
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I sincerely don't understand. If you have a thing that "instantly" progresses your gens by 25% most of the time - then how is that different to the other side having thing that instntly regresses your gens by 25% most of the time? I absolutely don't get it. One thing gives more time to killers to kill survivors, the other thing takes away exactly the same time for killer to actually kill all survivors (with very minor differences - most standard case would be for PR absolutely precisely negate 4 BNP's making it the same as if 0 instead of 4 survs brought those and killer bringing 3 perks insted of 4th pain res).
Why would you even compare it to something that is the same ONLY BY PROXY + much more conditionally? I don't understand your reasoning.
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It doesn't need to be those numbers specifically, those numbers were more just to illustrate the concept. Maybe even 1.5% could work. In 3 hooks that would bring it back in line with the original 15%. Really the main important thing there was trying to make sure you get use out of every scourge hook while still keeping the perk in the general direction the devs are taking it.
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gen progress is exclusively win more mechanic. its hard to compare to anything on killer side because there is nothing that directly 1:1 speed up their ability to kill. closest thing is old ebony mori offering. the old ebony mori offering made it so that you could mori a survivor on first hook. Effectively, this means that you reduce the total number of hook state by 33%.
Commodos wire spool+brand new part toolboxes are similar. they decrease the survivor's objective time. On average, 4 of these toolboxes is roughly -2 generators which is 40% of the objective. you can see why brand new part used to be compared to old ebony mori. Keys were also compared to this because you could finish 4 gens where 1 person dies, then 3 people could escape through hatch which effectively skips 1 gen. I think keys were supposedly an item to counter 3 gens but they didn't make much sense at that point of the game because an anti 3 gen mechanic like old keys is not needed when regression is 4x slower and no perks influenced over-time regression until hex:ruin rework and much more recent cob/oc perks. As I said, its not comparable.
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My post regarding pain res is little bit like otz video regarding tunneling. you can give suggestions to give alternative options for killer to not tunnel but players like you will reject them. Base-kit Pain Res would likely get feedback like this. "Why I am being punished for my teammates being terrible at the chase, What an unfair mechanic, reee ".
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How is it win more? 2 survivors left, 2 gens left. U have 2x BNP, you have theoretical chance to do both gens and open gate IF someone somehow chases with killer for like 1-2 minutes (this is very much possible. Lot of killers will just hard tunnel - and in mixed-skill lobies, u can get 2-3 people u can catch in 20-30s and also another survivor that can have 90s chase - so no. This is not an obscure thing that never happens). Without BNP, the chance is just not there - because u are basically guaranteed to run out of pallets or get bloodlusted. So this definitely comes to exactly the same category for very same reason - you either win more with it, or you loose less.
Exactly the same thing works for killer. He can either have enough time anyway and killing everyone at 4-5 gens left (it does happen - 1-2 big survivor mistakes at beginning and you need strong comeback to not loose) - making such a regression just "win more", or alternatively you are being spread on a huge map to all 4 corners of it where pain res actually gives you chance to make time to get back into the game - so it's loose less in that case.
Same mechanics and you could even fit those into exactly the same situation and just talk about missing pain res/BNP to actually reverse the game outcome using same words for both sides.
About alternative - I didn't say making incentives for spreading hook instead of tunneling is bad idea. But providing mechanics that will give you benefit in both cases (meaning u can camp and tunnel and still get it) is just not it. That is just and only killer buff. And I don't think it's good idea to give blanked buffs to all killers at this time (I am all for buffing some specific killers, but nerfing others. Alternatively buffing soloQ in superfluous way to SWF and buffing specifically weaker killers - leaving everything else the same). The game is already super unforgiving to soloQ players and another general killer buff would be just detrimental at this point (again - there are specific killers that need to be buffed) - and even if some killers are pain to play compared to others (non-condemn sadako, non-tombstone meyers, freddy vs nurse, blight, spirit) - it's still better then soloQ experience compared to SWF (not even counting comms into it - sometimes you can be just screwed by matchmaking into literally unwinnable game no matter what you do - which is less of a thing even for weaker killers).
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I have played against survivor that bring 2 brand new part toolboxes and I kill entire team with 4 gens left. Its kinda same old mori's back in the day. Old mori did not mean you auto won the match as killer. they heavily stacked the odds in your favor because you were removing hook-states from opposing side leading to faster deaths(like tunnel off hook). you could still escape killers because in order for reducing hook state to be relevant, you need to be able to down survivor two times consecutively to take advantage of mori effect. Killer who failed to do this still lost even with old mori's. That's kinda what win-more mechanic is. you need to be able to win to win-more. You win faster. It is that simple.
Going back toolboxes and repair speed progression perks. you need to be able to repair 5 generators without these progression bonuses to win. Once your able to semi-consistently do that, these items become insane because if you were already semi-finishing all 5 gens without progression than these items take up your efficiency to next level. When you start using these items, you will be doing same survivor gameplay loop as before but you will be winning significantly faster. In fact if you stack enough win-more mechanics on survivor side, you could potentially be unbeatable. Survivor gameplay is more complicated. there is a lot of moving parts to play survivor well. there is no simple explanation that does not miss a big portion of relevant detail to summarize survivor gameplay. To show how ridiculously win-more stacking is in this game, you have a killer that moves 400%. Completely impossible loop and you still complete the objective. Shouldn't the game be unwinnable? Well you would be very surprised.
Around 3-4 months ago, There used to be a bug on Knight that made him go 300-400% speed. SuperAlf decided to do private lobby to see if you could defeat a killer with so much movement speed.
Here is the video if your curious. You can indeed complete all 5 generators when facing killer at 400% speed. You cannot quite escape the killer but you can finish all 5 generator which is impressive to say least. As I said, gen progression is not quite same thing.
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What I am talking about is different. I am saying that killers that are successfully winning chases in short amount of time should be near impossible to defeat because survivor is playing as bad as possible. Being successful at chases should prerequisite towards escaping as survivor. Until anything changes in regards to this, you can expect gen delay and tunneling to stay the same assuming there is any generator defence left to begin with. What your talking about is unrelated to what I am talking about.
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Ok. Now exchange every "survivor" for "killer" and every "BNP" for "basekit pain res" and tell me where is the analogy wrong?
This is the reason why I say those 2 things are very much the same and comparing them together very much makes sense.
Also in times of old mori's - there were 2x as many pallets, shack had 2 windows, keys would allow all 4 survivors to get out via hatch that spawned way sooner, permanent sabotages were in the game and gen took 60s to repair - and yet the game was still playable, because a, people didn't know looping was really possible and viable compared to hiding b, killers also had broken things - like said old mori. Meaning if you just now only add 25% regress for every survivor basekit - you would need to balance the game further, or "you will be doing same
survivorkiller gameplay loop as before but you will be winning significantlyfastermore consistently"Also about the video. What are you trying to say with it? That if you are super quick, then it's hard to control your killer and you might whiff long enough, that max loaded survivors could maybe possibly on a best map under best conditions sometimes do all gens and still die? How would the situation change if Alf learned to actually control said killer? all consistently dead at 3 gens? 4 gens? What if he decided to play nasty and always bring survivors to basement + tunnel them. 4K at 5 gens?
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comparing win-more mechanic for survivor and lose-less mechanic for killer (that also doubles as win-more mechanic because regressing generators always helps even though winning a game at 3 gens is same as winning a game on 4 gens due to regression) is comparing apples and oranges. you need compare things that are similar in nature towards gameplay i.e both sides having mechanics that make them win-faster.
Meaning if you just now only add 25% regress for every survivor basekit - you would need to balance the game further, or "you will be doing same
survivorkiller gameplay loop as before but you will be winning significantlyfastermore consistently"If your opponent is playing poorly then you should be winning consistently until your opponent plays better then you do at the chase.
My major point is that dev's 6.1.0 update in adding 2.5% regression for kicking gens did not fix killers not needing to run gen delay perks. Adding 24 second healing is not fun interactive fix either as it forces no-mither type injured gameplay. they need weaken health-states, not delete them. the 10% less speed boost and 10% less recovery is good change to reducing time-waste of health-state second chancing but it needs to be iterated a bit more. higher numbers similar to original 5 second bt ->10 sec bt. Less dependent on STBFL perk. Maybe add some of the perk into base-kit and weaken the perk.
Also about the video. What are you trying to say with it?
A killer could be absolute imbalanced completely in the chase but you can still complete all 5 generators despite being impossible loop. that is what I am saying. that's extent that you can stack-win more repair bonuses and still come out even against all odds. Comparing this to killer getting generator regression to have enough time chase survivors if he does well in the chase is different.
The killer is talking about getting rewarded for not tunneling and winning chases. your talking about some imbalanced generator progression.
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Make the quantity 4 and make more of the hooks Scourge. Maybe all hooks?
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I wouldn't even call the pain res change a nerf tbh. Unless you're actually hard tunneling every match it's basically net even
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Yeah, a token system would be a nice change to Pain Ress, specially when you want to use the perk to active other perks, like Surveillance or DMS.
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The point is - why is BNP's also NOT loose less? I even gave u perfect example u didn't touch (because there's no way to touch it - my example that allows 1 maaaaaybe 2 out is 100% not win more situation). BOTH are win more AND loose less at the same time and to the same degree.
And again about the video. Not true. They completed all gens, because alf couldn't turn normally making him also a little handicapped (which survivors used to max stacking everything - even map to abuse this as much as possible). Once he would fix that (by e.g. lowering sensitivity/dpi, or getting used to it), he would at worst 4k at 3 gens left every time - meaning your video has no meaning and shows nothing usable.
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Dead hard can only be used twice so cry about it we have to accept it so do you
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Have you considered the fact that you also can posts your opinions on the Dead Hard nerf on here and maybe the devs will listen? They've been shown to do that from time to time. Nothing is set in stone and you can be an agent of change.
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Just make it so you get another token each time a gen pops
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You should be able to answer that yourself to why BNP is not loose less from your own example. 2 people are dead, The killer will find 1 survivor chase them, hook them and can guaranteed camp to ensure 3 kill victory. your BNP/Progression is not changing outcome of the match. The reason why I ignored the example is because it is bad example.
Not true. They completed all gens
your missing the point. Assuming a killer is dominating you in chase. Your not suppose to be able to escape as survivor but DBD is balanced in such a way that you can play every chase as bad as possible but still have escape chances on survivor.
As strange as this sounds, the more chases that the killer goes for, the greater odds you have of escaping. its very bizarre that the killer get punished for attempting to chase and get little to no rewards for successfully committing to the chase and successfully ending the chase quickly. that is what gen-delay perks are trying to address. Pain res is good example of a perk that is trying to address that aspect of the game. The perk is trying to make hooking more rewarding and chasing entire team rewarding over camping(skipping hook states through 60 second timer mechanic) and tunneling 1/2 survivors on the team. With a change like that, there would be less requirement to use gen-delay perks and more killer would be incline to not tunnel because an alternative chase hooking play-style is possible and potentially more rewarding. I am not saying that every killer would not tunnel/camp but at least there is more opportunity to not do so.
I am not likely not going convince you in such a change but I do think that dev 2.5% regression attempt on generators has not been successful in making gen-delay less mandatory for killer. That is all I have to say.
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1, if he can hook that survivor in time at all (said BNP lowers the chance - making it exactly loose less scenario) - so it's possible to get to 2 out when both lucky in chase and when killer gets less bloodlust time
2, killer dominating the chase is exactly the natural slowdown he needs. I will give u extreme example to illustrate the point - supaalf when doing his 555 win streak on nurse does not use any gen regression perk (not even during OC+CoB+eruption combo time). Insane huntresses subscribe to open map offering (like all corn maps) and all the aura perks and addons without any slowdown or regression. The point is - if you are able to get quick downs, you don't need any gen regressions, because out of 4 survivors - 1 is hanging, 1 goes for unhook, 1 is healing after being unhooked and 1 is in chase - in this case there's no regression required, because you built momentum and there's 0 gen progression.
If you are indeed good in chase, then you don't need to do anything but chase and hook (even hooking is optional - you can always slug - which btw builds extra snowball if played correctly). So no. If you are better killer in chase then survivor, you just win. The problem is if you think 2-3 minutes chase for a single down on average is reasonable time and the game is survivor-sided if you loose while having such "quick" chases. It's absolutely not (again, talking about average here - first chase is always longer, because there are more resources on the map). Quick chase is 30s to down someone. Anything above 1 minute is slow and it means you will need to make it up somewhere else (say by perk like pain resonance) - on the other hand as survivor you can kinda negate single bad chase like that and make it effectively "longer chase" by using BNP's.
And sure - this is still simplified a lot. Because there are things like having setup to your abilities (for some killers/perks/...), creating deadzones, slugging, basement plays and sure - also camp and tunnel if that's needed. And killer can win the whole game at any time - all he needs is one serious mistake on survivor side and a bit of altruism. So 0 hooks on 5 completed gens by far does not automatically mean the game can't end in 4k.
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I just also want to point out it can encourage tunneling if the killer knows that no gens are progressed enough (Such as wraith with his iri), as they will want to save the survivors who still have it for when the survivors have progressed.
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this is most delusional post that I have ever read in a long while. there is very clear of lack inexperience in this post.
Trying to dissect this post is going to be challenging in constructive way.
First of all, The killer being good at the chase is not enough to truly enough beat good survivors. Being good at the chase as killer is like base-line killer skill at high-level. Its like doing gens as survivor.
So no. If you are better killer in chase then survivor, you just win.
This is NOT true. you do not just win. You just lose. I am not joking when I say that virtually 70% of killer cast vs really good survivors is legit cake walk to defeat. When I say defeat, I mean consistently get defeated with 0% chance to win. that is testament to how little impact being good at killers has on the match.
If you don't believe me, Spookyloopz recently posted a video where he purposely picks low-tier m1 killers and tries to win hens's swf team. Hens is great player and survivor team is very very good. The idea that the killer just has to do "good chases" and you just win as killer is delusional. Spookyloopz as every killer main would do is using gen defence. gen-blocking in his case to make slow games down. You have no idea what your talking about when you are saying that killer do not need gen defense vs efficient teams.
killer dominating the chase is exactly the natural slowdown he needs. I will give u extreme example to illustrate the point - supaalf when doing his 555 win streak on nurse does not use any gen regression perk (not even during OC+CoB+eruption combo time). Insane huntresses subscribe to open map offering (like all corn maps) and all the aura perks and addons without any slowdown or regression.
This is like the worst possible example to give for so many reasons that it is laughable. First of all, Nurse is like one of two killers that arguably ignores conventional survivor looping. Her chase potential far exceeds virtually every other killer. Second of all, Nurse one of killer that truly does not benefit from gen defense as much other killers. Her actual raw mobility is not that good despite fact that she is able to teleport. I don't remember the raw math behind total distances, but between fatique and cooldown for blink recharging. the total m/s for nurse is like 120% m/s. Its something like that. What this means is that gen-kick perks in normal gameplay are not time efficiency for nurse. Its too much of opportunity cost in time to kick gens over chase survivors. You can technically 3 gen as nurse but nurse does not need to 3 gen to be successful. Her win condition is getting 7 hooks. She is very good at this because she is incredible chaser and a very reliable tunneler. Superalf talks about this in one of his videos where he talks about nurse's problems in balance. He made video around the time when Wesker released his Awaken awareness perk where he said that the two mains strength that nurse has over other killer is her ability to abuse Instant down perks and her ability to abuse aura-reading as direct hits. Instant down synergy got nerfed, so Nurse is more about abusing aura reading over gen defense. This is why his build favors automatic regression(pain res) and automatic aura reading in-chase(Flood of rage). Aura reading is good for nurse because she can down quickly, then use aura reading to tunnel death-hook survivors.
The problem is if you think 2-3 minutes chase for a single down on average is reasonable time and the game is survivor-sided if you loose while having such "quick" chases. It's absolutely not (again, talking about average here - first chase is always longer, because there are more resources on the map). Quick chase is 30s to down someone.
Now we need talk about this point. This game for non-anti loop is atrocious when it comes to time efficiency for killer to do their objective and the loop balance is a whole new other level of problems to talk about. Like, just hitting a healthy survivor and survivor running perfectly forward vs m1 killer(like freddy) is 20 second of just hold-w. This is just dead weight time that killer are forced to waste and killer has zero counter-play to it. It is also not just about getting down. It also about spending time hooking survivors. The killer spending time to pick-up survivors is time that killer wastes for hooking a survivor which is free time on generators. It is just more dead weight time for killer. The comparison is imagine survivors having to wait 10 seconds of 0 progress when they get on a generator before generator started progressing. There is also part where killer need to physically find survivors to chase and walk to places. There is so much free-time waste of killer side that it is not that simple to just say fast chases is free wins.
Downing survivor in 30 seconds if survivor are good at looping is unrealistic for most of killer cast. This is because if survivor are good at looping, they will use looping resources correctly. The distribution of types of pallet in this game is like 33% of pallets are actual infinity bloodlust 3 god pallets. When they're dropped, the vast majority of killer cast has to break them. 33% of the pallets are safe pallets. they're not bloodlust 3 infinities but the killer often has to go to like bloodlust 2 to have a chance to hit the survivor meaning that it is often not worth it such that breaking pallet is faster in a lot of cases and much lower risk play. This means that 2/3 of pallets, you cannot physically down survivors quickly if they know how to loop. The other 33% of pallets are unsafe. these are physically pallet that you can physically hit survivors and there is gameplay for killer at loops.
For this reason, a big portion of dbd for killer is pallet break simulator for non-anti loop killers. its run to pallet, get survivor to drop, break pallet, go to next pallet, break that pallet and so on. The idea that you can generate momentium and defeat good loopers with strong generator efficiency is blissful ignorance. Because of how little the killer has at gameplay in loops, a lot of the game for weaker killer is deadzones, hooking camping and 3 gen. Super defensively gameplay. The killer need less dead weight time waste, more opportunity to hits survivors(more control over loops) and more reward for being successful at the chase(since survivor is playing badly). The killer success should matter.
Your post is not understanding where I am coming from when I am talking about base-kit regression for successfully hooking survivors. This is nothing like BNP.
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Would be nice if they left in the effect of screaming for Pain resonance, that way it could still retain some synergy with DMS after the first 4 unique hooks.
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I personally prefer the Current PR. It is better at 6 hooks and fewer (15% only beats 100% at 7 hooks when it reaches 105%), and the game is won at a kill in most cases. That means it is stronger when I need it (early game), and weaker when I don't (late game post first death). Plus, if you get an early down or you know there is no gen to regress, you aren't forced to use the PR token. You can use any hook at your leisure. That is amazingly freeing, especially when killing a Survivor you already used their token on, so you don't have to burn a Scourge Hook. I will say it is worse for multi Scourge builds, but Floods still gets value as most people think you forgot whether or not you got the PR token on them or not.
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This just shows that Spooky looses to that group. Check his meyers play with tombstone piece. Sorry, but he outright plays it bad. 1, he did not collect his 3 stacks of PWYF 2, he repeatedly starts his T3 when not close to survivor. It just shows he does not ever play tombstone piece meyers (understandable - he's huntress main and plays some good ghostface. He just does not play those lower-tier killers enough and if he does, he plays for fun (which can be seen by the way he plays even in that video) - against literally one of the best comp teams). Very similar thing to pig with him commiting to a bad chase. That video is just an example of what would happen if you take average player and pit him against expert in their own category. I could show you a video where perkless itemless killer just destroys group of 4 clueless beginning survivors (no matter their loadout) and it would say just about the same thing.
Another thing - it's not even fair comparison. You are comparing strongest stuff on one side to weakest stuff on the other. I can do the other thing and pick 4 random survivors that don't play together with no comms and pit them against nurse or blight or spirit or .... to show just about the same result. How fair would it be to then say survivor does not stand a chance against 70% of killer cast? Ayrun actually streamed his P100 showcase where 4 survivors no comms played against P100 killer (back when those were fresh and there were few players that had P100) - sometimes clown won in those settings. Sometimes nurse lost. Meaning the game is very much playable in that setting.
I think your post is full of all the misconception and all the other stuff. Also it talks about top-tier play (something 99,9% of player will never experience) without taking into account average play (where these "weak killers" have massive killrates according to stats provided by devs). Meaning you are arguing to buff everyone to be feasible in 0,1% case where in 99,9% cases these killers just roll (and in 0,1% there are other killers that still roll). Don't you feel like that is quite unfair? Do you think the game would be OK and alive if 99,9% of survivors would have 10-20% escape rate?
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This was against the best survivors in the world and they are a comp team
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i was never bothered about pain res or any killer perks but Buffing one without the other is kinda whack I liked the meta the way it was
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Another thing - it's not even fair comparison. You are comparing strongest stuff on one side to weakest stuff on the other.
what is not fair about it? the survivor playing poorly is player skill issue. The killer having trouble competing is game issue. The majority of killer struggle to put any fight vs solid survivor players. The survivor can always become better. The killer cannot change outcome regardless if they get better.
Don't you feel like that is quite unfair? Do you think the game would be OK and alive if 99,9% of survivors would have 10-20% escape rate?
Your saying telling me that it is unfair when you play badly as survivor to lose? your first post is saying that spookyloop did not play killer correctly so he should lose. Now on survivor side, your telling me that when survivor plays badly, they should win. Do you not see double standards in your post? Assuming 99% of the player-base plays survivor badly, then yes I think the escape rate should be low.
One thing I would like to point out though is that every survivor should have equal opportunity to play well. To this, I want to talk about hens explanation at the start of the spooky video in regards to clock system.
Hens explains that the way survivors communicate their position is that they use clock system to indicate where survivor is on the map. For example room 2 is 2 o clock. this big part of generator efficiency for strong teams because it allows them to properly push correct generators and out maneuver most killers tactically on the map. I do not want get into too much detail into survivor gameplay because playing survivor well on macro level is complex. there is a lot of tactical decision making that goes into it based off how the game plays out.
I think soloq should have same opportunity to play at this level. How this advantage is produced is by knowing where your teammate are at all times. This is why it would great change... for soloq survivor(survivor in general) to be able to globally see their teammate aura on the map. There are perks in dbd that allows you to see aura of survivor globally such as perk Empathy, Blood pact, Aftercare, Kindred etc. however these perk are less reliable then what swf get and they cost perk slots which is unfair advantage for SWF. A high-MMR soloq should be much closer to High MMR SWF in term of strength. This means that if survivor do play well, you should have winning chances as survivor.
For killer, it is not about win and escape %'s. It is about the possibility to win. A near zero 0% chance to win on weaker killer when going against strong teams is not interesting.
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If to play "good" you need to be 4man that scrims together daily and be on comms, because otherwise you are not 0,1% of players and "are playing bad" and you "just deserve to loose". And this is something that should be considered norm - while killer should be OK to play chill and still win 80-90% of his games against anyone no matter if he tries super hard or makes mistakes - until the very moment he finds that 0,1% people that actually scrim together.
Also - to get the same benefit, having aura is just not enough. You would need to add also comms. Because that's also super important part to communicate if/when to take hit, who has what perk, when should survivors swarm the killer and when they should wait for something and so on. Meaning it will NEVER be possible to get to that state. Meaning under your "rule" soloQ is just screwed to always loose. Also there's not just 1 clock callout. I would say every team has different one - so you can't even take 2 players that have clock callout and have them use it right of the bat (they would need to synchronize them before - so you again need comms).
I think it's not interesting to have near 0% chance to escape until you get to the point you are 0,1% of best survivors. That is game-killing change.
Well. I think we have VERY much different sense to what is balanced and fair and there's no point in continuing the discussions.
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