Pallet Rescues can be lose-lose for killer, just like Locker Flashlight Saves were
The killer downs a survivor at the pallet and sees/hears another survivor nearby.
- If the killer picks up, they get stunned by the pallet.
- If the killer slugs briefly and tries to scare away the other survivor, they'll just come right back.
- If the killer slugs and then commits to the other survivor, another survivor can pick up the slugged survivor.
All because the survivor went down under a pallet, which takes no skill to do? This does not even take into account Flip-Flop + Power Struggle, Unbreakable, or Boon: Exponential. Meanwhile, 1 or 2 other survivors are still working on gens.
What's the counter? You can't eat the stun with Enduring, and the Hubris expose doesn't last long enough to punish the rescuer. Hex: Blood Favor? Sure, if it's the first down, 30 seconds into the match. The hex doesn't last any longer than that since all survivors are aware of it after the first hit. Plus, it would mean that Sould Guard is now another thing the killer has to consider.
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Changes to the basekit game were made for lose-lose locker blinds. The same can be done for pallet rescues without taking away pallet rescues entirely.
Have the Entity block the pallet if the survivor has been under it for some length of time (20 seconds? 30?). The killer can secure the pickup, but still has to sacrifice some time to do so.
That, or the killer no longer drops the survivor when pallet stunned. Instead, they are stuck in place, vulnerable to blinds, and the carried survivor either gets a chunk of wiggle progress or has increased wiggle speed for the stun duration.
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Currently, I have to just walk away and commit to the other person. I won the chase, but cannot secure the hook because... DbD things
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To say pallet rescues take no skill is a bit of lie. There is a timing to it as throwing the pallet too early results in nothing but a wasted pallet.
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These are not the same at all. Locker saves had zero counter if survivors knew what they were doing. Pallet saves aren't like that.
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it can only be used once, at the very least.
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I said going down under a pallet takes no skill.
You could aurgue that using an emote to prevent the killer from knocking you away from the center of the pallet takes some game knowledge.
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Tell me, what's the counter? I'll wait.
If you say "chase the nearby survivor and hope they loop the pallet and selfishly drop it to save themselves instead of running away," is the counter, then I will laugh.
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Any Means Necessary won't be disabled forever, and there's more than one pallet on the maps.
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Well, you can just injure the survivor that is coming for the pallet save. Most survivors won't try a pallet save and risking themselves.
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Except that doesn't work because the killer is locked in an animation long enough for the other survivor to react (sound familiar? the same thing that happened with locker blinds...)
Not even 5 stacks of Fire Up, shaving 2 frames off the animation, will help.
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It does, if they see your attempt for grabbing the survivor... by positioning yourself, they will run to one of the pallet's sides so it's not a lot to actually start the chase and use a lunge since they are pretty near.
It can get annoying, yes, indeed but it's a minor annoyance and if you commit to a chase in the same loop, they'll likely drop the pallet.
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You could argue that 8 stacks of Save the Best for Last and 5 stacks of Fire Up might do the trick if the other survivor is not close enough to have time to react...
But the locker blind was removed even though Lightborn 100% countered it. Why should I need to have TWO perks at MAX stacks just to HOPE to counter this??
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And I haven't even mentioned what happens when the survivor under the pallet fully recovers...
The other survivor can play around the pallet, and drop it at the opportune time to pick the slugged survivor up; either because they stunned you, you have to break the pallet, or you have to go around.
Even if the pallet drop sends the survivor to your side of the pallet, they'll just vault tech you into picking up the survivor instead of breaking the pallet (because, again, DbD things...) and then blind you while you're stuck in an animation.
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So... basically you want people to give you ways of countering this while saying every way of countering this situation is invalid.
Got it.
I suppose if you hate it that much you could play Legion. As Legion it is likely that most survivors will be injured and therefore unlikely to go for a pallet save. If someone healthy is hanging around you can usually pop Frenzy and stab them to get them to buzz off and let you pick up (which you can do mid power btw).
Edit: You also seem to be missing that the killer is in a far stronger position when compared to the old locker save situation. In that situation, the Survivors had all the cards as long as they had flashlight juice. In this situation, if nobody gets the survivor up, they die in 4 minutes. If the killer does chase the would be rescuer, they still have 3 survivors not on generators which is still pretty good.
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OP you can't be serious.
What if the survivors mess up? What if the killer starts chasing the next survivor and the downed survivor never gets rescued? What if you're playing Bubba, Trickster, have an exposed perk, or 8 stacks of STBFL?
Suggestions like these arguably makes things more "balanced" but the game gets way more boring. Pallet saves make the game exciting. Do not remove it.
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Chase the nearby survivor away. Often times just injuring them will be enough to scare them away (and if they come back after that they may be forced to drop the pallet to avoid being downed themselves), but even if you end up committing to them and losing your slug, unless that person had UB you've now put pressure on 3 people because someone else has to come get the slug off the floor. If no one comes to get them, you can potentially go back for them later.
I will say this is part of why the base UB idea was terrible and should never be considered again.
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The counter to this situation in regards flip flop+power struggle is bleeding survivor out but killer loses to gen efficiency for slugging because slugging takes 4 minutes to bleed out as anti-camp disincentive. it is not uncounterable but it is lose/lose in the sense that you either give free hook-states up forcibly dropping a survivor or the killer is forced to slug for 4 minute bleed out which means entire team can just rush gens as your camping slug. This is one of reasons why unbreakable at base-kit is not a good idea among many other cases. This is one of the ways to force unbreakable value. People also abused this heavily when Decisive Strike did not deactivate when touching a generator. you'd run to a pallet, go down, if killer doesn't pick you up, you unbreakable pallet stun the killer. if they pick you up. 5 second DS. Slugging can be heavily abused by survivors to game-extra hook states. Flashlight/flashbang can cause this problem as well if the player has background player/99 SB and Sabotage with alex toolbox with dead hard activate can also force places for killer to slug producing lose/lose in time efficiency or hook-state loss.
This would likely be less unfair for killer if the survivor was penalized for forcing slugs(I.e Rewarding killer for downs) because there would be riskes associated for this behavior and killer would have more counter-play towards situation but its typical BVHR trying to implement unbreakable base-kit for survivor.
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If you have game sense (or infectious fright), you know where survivors are. To get that pallet save, survivor needs to be rather close. If you suspect where he is, you don't even need to fully chase him away - you can always bodyblock one side of pallet (it's very common - and I would even say unfair - that while killer is picking up survivor and another survivor comes during pickup from same side, he will have prompt to drop pallet while killer is in animation = when dropping pallet does not result in save. But once he fully picks survivor and before he can move, the prompt disappears (the unfair thing is this prompt to drop lie) making pallet save impossible). If the survivor is close enough that he can come from both sides - then come on. You literally must be able to hear him even if not injured. Get your free hit instead and pick up right after.
Also you can always slug if everything else fails.
Asking for possibility to consistently always counter everything is like saying from survivor's side, that pallets should respawn if all pallets in that section are dropped - by same reasoning, that there's nothing to be done in that situation no matter how good survivor you are (ignoring windows of opportunity as a fix, game sense to not go to dead zone, not predropping all the pallets in previous chase and so on)
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- If the killer slugs briefly and tries to scare away the other survivor, they'll just come right back.
You're not chasing them far enough then. Don't forget killer is faster than survivor, and if you chase them far enough away, they cannot pallet rescue. If you're really sick of it happening run Fire Up.
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Pallet saves are fine, there are more important things to worry about right now.
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Hahahahaha...
I said I'd laugh if someone said the counter is to hope the other survivor wastes the pallet. 😆
I guess they can add locker blinds back into the game; killers can just hope that the survivor with the flashlight doesn't know how to aim it properly... 🤷♂️
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If you hit a survivor and immediately chase them, they can run all the way across the map before you catch up as a 4.6 m/s killer.
The pickup is not instant.
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The point isnt to catch up, its to put them far enough away that they cant return in time.
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your forced to slug. that is the counter-play even if its not exactly good counter-play because your wasting time as killer while your opponent does gens for free due to 4vs1 nature of the game.
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and my point was that the killer is not that much faster than the survivor, to the point where you have the seconds needed to finish the pickup animation and move away from the pallet
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