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Are you ever going to punish face camping/tunnelling?

smartemarte
smartemarte Member Posts: 254
edited May 2023 in Feedback and Suggestions

there is literally 0 reason for the killer not to do it

If I spend 10 minutes getting into a game and then get face camped as soon as i'm hooked what is the incentive for me to not get frustrated? playing solo survivor just makes it worse.


There is literally 0 incentive for the killer to not hook camp "every one else can do the gens" is just not a good reasoning, the game is supposed to be fun for everyone. If a mechanic is in the game where atleast 1 player is AFK for most the game because he's being face camped and the other 3 survivors are AFK on gens where is the fun in that ?

half of the reason there is a massive problem with D/C / killing on first hook is because of the bad feelings from games like this.


I've just had a game vs Face where i got hooked and none of the other survivors did gens and just hid watching him face camp me close to tier3.... the alternative is they all do gens and he face camps me to death again 0 entertainment from most of the players in the game = it is a design flaw.

Comments

  • pigslittlepet
    pigslittlepet Member Posts: 483

    I don't like face camping either but where did you get the idea the game is supposed to be fun for everyone? They throw you in the match with the objective to kill the one side. You are not entitled to a fun time. You have to make your own fun time in this game.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,549

    So if that happens then when will Survivors be punished for completing a Gen from 0

    When will players stop stroking their egos for escaping when the Killer doesn't Camp or Tunnel

    When will players stop getting upset when their plan doesn't go right

    When will players stop getting upset for a Killer being played

    When will players stop getting upset for certain perks being used

    When will BHVR do more to help their game thrive

  • 1ettuce
    1ettuce Member Posts: 1,141
    edited May 2023

    Heaven forbid killers have to put effort into winning. You really need to stop demanding tunneling stay viable just because you don't wanna put actual effort into winning even if spreading hooks became viable

  • 1ettuce
    1ettuce Member Posts: 1,141

    Imo I don't think either should be "punished" specifically per se but should just be broadly less viable. Tunneling should simply not be worth it in general, whether that means the killer gets a debuff or the survivors get a buff or whatever, and sticking to gens should also be risky, whether it be like more urgency to unhook or something basekit to do with totems or some brand new objective.

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 1,291
    edited May 2023

    I honestly think unhooking is the issue right now since the hit cooldown recovery changes, the time to unhook being reduced to match what was reduced off of the hit CD would make a ton of difference. Camping would not be nearly as affective for some killers if this were the case. Power based camping is a different story entirely however.


    Ontop of that the latency being worse than usual for the servers is really affecting hook trading as you can sometimes be hit or grabbed after the bar ends... once again could be fixed with compensation to unhooking speed. Also with the gen length increases Hook time needs increased also as an answer, then perks like monstrous shrine may become more enticing if killers want their objective to go faster.


    That said STBFL is currently rampant with the absence of Decisive Strike (Moving obsession to the one being tunneled). The perk being in play more would counter this issue... and because no survivor runs it because it's not that great right now (the getting free animation being too long) I feel tunneling would be a lot less effective is such was more prevalent.

  • NoHookDC
    NoHookDC Member Posts: 234

    Ah yes. Me being fine with the tactics is lazy, but you demanding change is not because...Survivors come first, I guess?

    Maybe you can stop demanding tunneling be punished based on your anger over not winning? No? Rather pretend demanding the game cater to you is right and proper?

    You do you, I guess.

  • Bran
    Bran Member Posts: 2,096
    edited May 2023

    It's okay in some cases, but it shouldn't be so easily done. The problem is mainly bhvr can't just find a quick and easy solution to stop this from happening.

    But yeah you're not wrong to be upset and want a fix to it.

  • Zeidoktor
    Zeidoktor Member Posts: 2,065

    To quote myself from another thread

    The problem lies in punishing [campers and/or tunnelers] in a way that (a) they actually care about (will they care able BP or Emblem penalties?) and (b) catches as few people playing legitimately in the crossfire as possible (see the various "in punished with DC penalties because my internet is crap" posts)


    Not sure what can be done, though I think incentivizing playing other ways may work better overall.

  • DaddyMyers_Mori
    DaddyMyers_Mori Member Posts: 2,205

    What about creating a reason to leave the hook and focus different survivors instead?

    BBQ, ruin, pop did it. All of them got nerfed. They are trying to bring it back with Pain resonance change, which is good.

    But what do I get from hooking different survivors? If I have survivor dead on hook, hooking someone for first stage doesn't matter at that point.

    I see that survivors focused gen instead of unhooking someone. Why wouldn't I go there to wait 10 seconds to get free stage? They made their choice, I decided to punish it.

    Not really difficult, all those things are valid at some point of the game.

    Of course it's not good when killers go into game with plan to tunnel/camp from first hook. But you can't really be mad when killer tries to get someone out of the game when there 2 gens left, or camp when there are all gens finished.

  • DaddyMyers_Mori
    DaddyMyers_Mori Member Posts: 2,205
    edited May 2023

    There are ways to prevent camping (I would start with removing graps), but you can't really fix tunneling.

    All suggestions I saw were either useless or could be abused. I don't really care about tunneling. I still get a chase.

    Face camping from first hook is worse imo, it's simply boring for everyone.

  • NoHookDC
    NoHookDC Member Posts: 234

    Developers: We see camping and tunneling as valid tactics.

    Survivors: When are you going to punish these?

    Developers: ...We said they were valid tactics. Did you hear us?

    Survivors: Yes we did. When are you punishing them?

    Developers: They are valid tactics.

    Survivors: Ok. So when are you punishing Killers for doing them?

    Developers: 🤦‍♂️

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762

    Nope, punishment do jackshit and you should stop asking for it.

    Think about how you ACTUALLY fix it, by complete removal, than how you make those people suffer.

  • not_requested49
    not_requested49 Member Posts: 1,979
    edited May 2023

    So I have a question then, if you get no hooks/sacrifices you ragequit correct?

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • NoHookDC
    NoHookDC Member Posts: 234

    Nope.

    Regardless if I am playing Killer or Survivor; I never ragequit. Ragequitting is for people who can't handle losing in a PvP game, and instead makes excuses why it's not their fault they're quitting.

    And since they're making excuses; they never learn to get better, and thus always make more excuses and continue to ragequit.

  • NoHookDC
    NoHookDC Member Posts: 234

    That being able to DC on the hook should be removed/changed. Hook-DCing is just ragequitting while dodging the DC penalty.

    So there should be no ability to Hook-DC. Thus; NoHookDC.

  • 1ettuce
    1ettuce Member Posts: 1,141
    edited May 2023

    It has nothing to do with winning as I've already said spreading hooks should be more viable. Lazy strats just shouldn't be more viable than those which aren't lazy.

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • not_requested49
    not_requested49 Member Posts: 1,979

    That's not really clear at all, most call it hook suicide, not hook dc lol

  • NoHookDC
    NoHookDC Member Posts: 234

    I had a friend commit suicide, so I don't like that word being used for gaming/entertainment purposes. So I did not use it.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,218

    Thank you. Not to mention, that it is definitely possible to win 12 hook matches, you just need to do it right.

    I rarely DC and if, then because of a bug or because I'm really mad. Really really mad. Most times I will continue to play because I do not want to be a bad teammate. And if I see no use in continuing playing killer I just go somewhere to a corner and afk.

    My idea to prevent camping especially with strong camping powers would be this:

    1) A killer can't use their power in a 16m radius around the hook, which is the distance the game grants you minus-points for "proximity to the hook". We already have this for certain killers: Artist, Twins, Skullmerchant, Knight or Dredge. Bubba, Billy, Oni, Huntress, Myers, Slinger, Nurse, Blight, Doctor, Wraith, GF, Pig(?), Hag(?), Trapper(?) and PyH should not be able to use their power around a hook. These are killers with insta-downs or killers with a very strong base-kit, range attack or the ability to tunnel easily. Those marked with (?) can be good at camping certain spots or because they have inbuilt Insidious. Problematic killers to fix around hooks: Plague (red vomit) and Wesker (vs. fully infected survivor). Since plague collects her range attack somwhere on the map, you cannot simply say that she looses it around the hook, but maybe she should just not be able to puke at all around a hook. Wesker can insta-down a completely infected survivor who is going for the hook. Sure the survivor could spray themselves but this reveals your location which can be tricky in certain scenarios. here I think it would suffice to make a bound dash attack against a fully infected (and healthy) survivor a normal grab and throw. This could be abused against both killers though which is not ideal. This should also only span one floor too to make 2 floor maps not abusable. basement should count as one floor though.

    2) Remove healthy grabs. I am fine if an injured person can be grabbed, but if a healthy person unhooks this should be a trade.

    3) If the killer stays in 16m around a hook or returns to that area after 5s, gen speed is increased for all other survivors by (insert reasonable number here)% as long as no other survivor is present in said area.

    Never. Because they can, because they want it easy (like the killers who just camp & tunnel).

  • DaddyMyers_Mori
    DaddyMyers_Mori Member Posts: 2,205

    1) sure if it gets activated after 5 seconds (so killers can use their power to leave or get value from BBQ etc.) and it doesn't work if killer is in chase, so it can't be abused by survivors.

    2) sure, that makes sense.

    3) I don't think there is reason for this. At least not in same patch as 1). First should be big enough nerf for this, not really need to add more imo. It gets kinda messy with maps like Midwitch, or RPD, where you are in area, but not really camping (different floor). Power disable would be annoying enough for this. After they make sure 1) system works properly and camping is still an issue, it may be possible, but I don't think it would be needed.

  • Allstar2675
    Allstar2675 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 4

    I agree with the post, but i dont blame killers for tunneling a survivor out of the game, its just what is viable. I think it hasnt been as prevelant in the past with dh and survivablility, but with the nerfs to every form of healing and survivablility in the game, its become more prevelant this season. Cant get mad at killers but i can only get mad at the devs for putting their stamp of approval on a game with an all time high killer success rate and an all time low on survivor success rate.

  • sanees
    sanees Member Posts: 611

    ok, but anti tunel system work for survivors too now survivors must repair 8 generators by 99%, and also break all totems and open all chests

    if the killer is punished for efficiency, then the survivors should be punished too

  • Spectralfx
    Spectralfx Member Posts: 605

    if you get tunneled or face camped just gen rush and stop complaning about it. There are counter plays and some killers have build designed for that and its a legitimate part of the game for them.

    its business as usual and its super easy to counter.

    a 1k is still a survivor win so it doesn't matter that one of them have to take one for the team to win.

    just quit complaining while there are far more pressing matters such as the abysmal map design that keeps getting worst and worst and more survivor biased every darn iteration.

    y'all have actual second floor gens adjacent to windows and maps that provides free wins like Ormond yet "when will you penalized tunneling and face camping"???

    They gave survivor a built-in endurance from the hook and most of them use it to body block for their healthy buddies like its a free health state then cry when the killer don't switch target and finish them off for it...

    just adapt already, y'all have way too many freebies as it is.

  • Blinckx
    Blinckx Member Posts: 426

    Why instead you don't blame BHVR ? Becuase it's their own falut if this is the meta right now

    Why blame killer for tunneling or camping or survivor for bringing BNP and other OP stuff ? It's only BHVR fault period

  • smartemarte
    smartemarte Member Posts: 254
    edited May 2023

    2 games tonight


    first game pyramid head, face camped his first hook, we afk'd gens until the survivor died on hook AMAZING GAMEPLAY SO WELL PLAYED BY THE KILLER

    second game dredge, didnt go more than 5 metres from the first hook, afk on gens AMAZING GAMEPLAY WELL PLAYED KILLER.

    people B*tch and moan about toxic SWF but it's because 9 out of 10 games they're matched against solo survivors and they've got a massive advantage from the second the game starts so as soon as they come up against a good team and they can't just auto pilot a win they cry that the game isn't balanced for them and SWF needs to be nerfed....

    think i'm just going to give up and uninstall now.


    If your game design REWARDS people for face camping, doing nothing and just hook trading if anyone comes to save then that is bad game design. there is a REASON you can't fix the matchmaking because there isn't enough people playing to have the matchmaking look for closer MMR ratings.... there is a REASON people get frustrated and DC/Kill themselves on first hook and 9 times out of 10 its not because the killer outplayed them it's because they're frustrated about boring games where they've been face camped/afk'd gens OR another argument all together the awful matchmaking in which makes most solo survivor games unwinnable

  • smartemarte
    smartemarte Member Posts: 254

    wesker on RPD

    loop him for 2 minutes not a single gen done

    that's it i'm done, if i play 10 games in a night i can count on 1 hand how many good games i have.... i'd say 80% of them have been decided before the game even starts. Doesn't matter if the killer is average they are going to win when you're matched with absolute potatos

  • Spectralfx
    Spectralfx Member Posts: 605

    The game is designed for the survivors to be safe in a chase with all the god pallets/windows... and humongeous map sizes.

    But survivors are not safe by the hooks.

    Go figure?

    Maybe if their map design made chases actually possible... maybe I wouldn't be camping basement with iri hatchet on huntress?

    I'd love to play Oni and chase people around... everytimes I try that I get BNP/prove thyself/triple flashlight bully squad with the Ormond offering...

    I love their hate mail after losing to a basement camp tho.

    The later is fun to me.