Idea to Reducing Camping/Tunneling.
Been making a bunch of notes on what I would change in this game, and felt like going about this topic, I thought of maybe an idea that might not fully get rid of Camping/Tunnelling, but I would think would reduce it by a lot to the point it wouldn't be as effective anymore, here are my ideas I just wanted to share:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Camping:
•Once the Killer throws a Survivor onto a hook, the Entity will be called upon, pulling all hooks underground and will swap positions.
•Once all hooks have been swapped, they will then start to respawn, being pulled back out from underneath the ground.
•Once all hooks have been swapped and pulled out of the ground, the hooked Survivor will respawn on their same hook beyond 32 meters from your position.
•The Killer can NOT see the Aura of the hook the Survivor is currently on.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
And for Tunneling:
•20 Seconds after a Survivor has been unhooked, they will permanently have the Endurance V1 Status Effect until one of 3 conditions:
1: They start a conspicuous action.
2: The Killer has hooked another Survivor.
3: The Survivor enters chase in less than 20 Seconds after being Unhooked.
•If the Survivor takes a hit with Endurance after being unhooked, they will NOT be afflicted with the Deep Wound Status Effect.
•If the Survivor begins to take chase before they receive the Endurance Status Effect, they will NOT receive it after being unhooked.
The Killer will NOT receive a loud noise notification once a Survivor has been unhooked.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
With these Base Kit change ideas, of course a select few of perks for Survivor would have to be changed and also have ideas for those in this link below:
Survivor Unhooking Perk Changes Idea - Pastebin.com
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Noticed I put "V1" and "V2" beside of "Endurance" both in this post and the pastebin link? Well what that's supposed to mean is, "V1", you take a hit with Endurance, you don't get Deep Wound applied to you, and "V2" taking a hit with Endurance will put you in Deep Wound, just something I had came up with, sounds silly I know but I figured I'd make that so people would know what it would indicate.
But anyways, I know these changes don't sound perfect, maybe easily abusable as well, but the Idea is to heavily reduce Camping/Tunnelling, not fully get rid of it because sometimes, that can only be the Killer's only strategy in certain situations.
For example the whole "waiting 20 seconds" after being unhooked is so the Survivors can't abuse it by running straight to the killer right away, but also I know there can be times where the Killer can easily abuse that by getting lucky and finding them after they get unhooked in less than 20 seconds, fixing that is something I couldn't think of unless if you add in an effect like what Pyramid Head has, and that's if you get close to the Hooked Survivor, the Hooks will swap again, which is something I wouldn't want, but that might sound like the only fix to it. And the whole "Not having Deep Wound applied" after taking a hit with Endurance from being Unhooked, is so if they are indeed being tunneled, they will have a chance of using perks like Dead Hard, or my Off the Record change idea.
Maybe people out there can have an idea to fully improve this idea or take parts of my idea and change them into something else that sounds much better, idk, I just thought maybe I'd share this idea to the public because I know how unfun both strategy's sound when both on the receiving end and attempting it yourself, just want to somehow reduce them heavily and bhvr can take notes later in the future and they might finally implement something, idk.
(And I know, the Borrowed Time Change Idea sounds like #########, but sounds unique at the same time imo lol)
Comments
-
oof
0 -
Idea to stop camping and tunneling:
Stop making the map bigger and adding tiles that are 100% favoring the survivors then maybe killers will actually want to chase.
7 -
I can assure you, most of the time killer's that do that, it has nothing to do with the tiles or the map layout, i've dealt with bs like that and is possible to come back from, not saying it's easy, just saying it's possible, had a team that bumped 4 gens out and i had like 4 or 5 hooks, and it turned into 12, there are times you don't have to, believe me, and i'm not saying you're wrong about the map layouts, there are times that's bullshit, i'm just saying, majority of the time killer's don't have to, they'll either be doing it out of being a dick because they've had some bad games before, or because they think it is the right play even though it's not and sometimes ends up costing them the game, but either way, it's just unfun to be on the receiving end or even attempting it yourself, i'm a killer main myself unless i'm playing with friends, in that case i'll play a lot of survivor.
Post edited by MTA on1 -
While I appreciate the time you have put in that response, I sincerely do, the issue is that I consider that my point still stand.
I understand your position, I still believe that ultimately, the maps needs to be improved in a direction that is appropriate.
I wouldn't mind a nerf to the 3 top killers to compensate, but the issue of maps is that they currently invalidate most killers in the game that do not have a mobility option that is up at all time (Oni is a farce, maps are to big even for him to pressure gens)
4 -
Camping would not be a problem if Survivors did Gens in response.
Tunneling would not be an issue if Survivors didnt pull the Survivor off the hook near the Killer.
Why are we nerfing Killers ability to apply pressure to a rescue because Survivors don't bother to properly counter play?
Seems like the only gameplay you want Killers to have is to chase and chase, there apparently should be no thinking about keeping Survivors from unhooking. You are removing Killer's choice in regards on what they can do, Why should the Killer role be made more boring because its possible for the Killer to use their power of speed and positioning???
If you think its too hard for Survivors to even rescue, then make a case to bhvr for them to ensure proper fun counter play for survivors instead of limiting the playstyles of what a Killer can do.
6 -
Idea to reducing Camping/Tunneling
1) Learn how to loop
2) Stop unhook while the killer is nearby
3) Stop use BT to bodyblock
4) Learn how to loop
here, solved your Camping/Tunneling issue
3 -
With camping solution - I can agree to a degree (there's still too much lack of an information for this to be effective / to work, if you are not SWF that is).
For tunneling - your case is absolutely right. However I think it's not the main issue people have. A lot of killers camp into tunnel or proxy-camp into tunnel. If this is the case, it's impossible to rescue when killer is not nearby (because he will be there until entity claims said survivor). In this (common) case (especially proxy-camp scenario), all the problems associated with it are just there and they just can't be circumvented.
0 -
With camping solution - I can agree to a degree (there's still too much lack of an information for this to be effective / to work, if you are not SWF that is).
In the past game sense would carry this for us.
I remember the times, I approached the hook carefully, looked out where the Killer was and then unhooked. Thanks to the new HUD stuff I can now see when someone is being chased, which means I know when its safe. yet despite this people will pull people off anyway. I dont think the reason is lack of information, I think the reason is that base BT people think will save the unhooked. It wont, base BT only works with face-camping, for tunneling? nah I can wait it out easy.
Honestly bHVR need to tweak the basekit BT to make it work better
0 -
Ok, but what are your suggestions to buff killers based on hooks and map balance ? I would like to hear that too
2 -
I look at the game from both perspectives, 4 years in a row i have been a killer main more than playing the survivor role, but this past year, i have had people wanting to do some swf games, so i got to experience survivor a lot more than what I usually play, I understand what killers need to do and the stress some too don’t get me wrong.
When I play Killer, i like going for a 12 hook game because it’s more fun that way, that’s just my play style, and yes I understand there a lot of times where killers can’t afford to go for 12 hook, whether if it’s slugging, camping, tunneling, and go for a 3 gen strat, which sometimes probably doesn’t work out the way you want it to, but if you can go for these plays and succeed, then that’s good.
The point I was trying to make was eliminating the unfun tactics this game has, camping and tunneling are 2 of them, while yes when I’m playing survivor, I don’t give a rats ass if it’s happening to me or not, as a matter of fact, if I’m getting camped or tunneled and the killer still manages to get a 3 or 4k, i get mad at my teammates for going for altruistic plays instead of finishing the damn gens and getting the hell out.
Obviously there are some stuff here and there survivors have that could use some nerfs or reworks, which in today’s time, there aren’t that many stuff left survivors have that’s annoying and unfun to go against, not saying they don’t have any, but there are some just not as many, but that’s a different topic though.
Point being, camping and tunneling is an unfun strat whether if there is counter play or not, and some killers, not much of them you can counter it (sometimes trickster, leatherface, hillbilly, sometimes myers).
And I’m not saying completely do away with camping and tunneling because sometimes it does need to be done, I’m just suggesting to heavily reduce it to where survivors have a higher chance of avoiding it so that way they have a chance of doing more stuff in the game.
1 -
- You do realize there are times where map designs are ######### and have very limited resources right?
- That’s a Survivor making bad choice obviously.
- Bodyblocking with bt is also obviously a stupid decision, even when i play killer, if a survivor does that too me, i stay on them.
- Same thing as #1
0 -
you are not "heavily reducing it" you are making it impossible, and you are also buffing survivors way too much to a point where they dont have to think about anything before unhooking.
3 -
Problem is, that in most of the games - you don't have to carefully look around. You see the killer. You know where the killer is. And it's somewhere around the hook (a little less likely - within 3m of hooked person). The killer will stay there. You can't safely unhook. You can do gens for some time, but then you need to trade (also you can't do gens that are in proximity of hook, because killer harasses them - so long as he can make it back to hook quickly - for unhooked survivor to have 0 chance to get away and heal).
1 -
Tunneling will be hard to stop out right
But If they tuned the Gen Efficiency just a little bit... that would decrease Tunneling just a little bit
And if Survivors stopped unhooking as soon as they get hooked it would stop Camping just a little bit
If Killers had more incentives to spread hooks... it would reduce Tunneling just a little more
If Survivors hook times were increased... it would reduce Camping just a little more
If BHVR didn't ruin Gen regression perks... it could've reduced Camping and Tunneling just a little more
If BHVR actually didn't have "knee-jerk" reactions that they said wouldn't happen... we could've found a different way to play the game
If players didn't turn this game into a competitive MLG tournament with cash on the line... BHVR wouldn't have to nerf much of anything
If BHVR didn't go the route of making BP only available through "ranked" matches
If BHVR made this game better from the ground up when Mickey was coming into the game... things wouldn't be as bad as they are now
1 -
Sorry, but most of this is just not true. BHVR tried it out. Patch 6.1 made chasing easier and longer gens and all that. Result? MORE Camping then ever in the game. If you want to reduce camping and tunneling, the solution is NOT to make games easier for killers (as if they are not super easy compared to the beginnings of this game - where people didn't camp and tunnel so much as today). The solution is to make these strats less viable and instead have other alternatives.
But if camping and tunneling is just swapped for gen kicking - you just substitute one problem for another. Instead of uninteractive M1/tunneled out/camped to death you get uninteractive kicked gens into kicked gens into kicked gens.
Instead the healthy thing is for killer to have enough time to have a chase (but that's not 2mins per each hook as some killers want to have) and giving chance to win that way, but not by stalling the game or being afk
0 -
"learning to loop" has never been a good point for tunneling being ok. tunneling makes the looping skill of the team intrinsically less valuable then it is otherwise, unless the killer tunnels a rly good player and the others are potatoes
0 -
Just make survivors respawn in like 60 seconds without any interaction between each other, in random location.
No more tunneling, no more "rescue in face", no more camping, problem fixed, "pressure" can easily be balanced by changing times too.
0 -
Right and I do think its bad the Killer can do that, but there must be a middle ground of completely making pressence pressure from the Killer impossible OR allowing face camping.
I think bHVR should gamify face-camping, by allowing Survivors to do something together that might be a useful tool against face camping, instead of something automatic and fake that holds the hand over them.
0 -
Camping:
- Indirectly buffs Killer early-game and Mobility Killers - by moving the Survivor away from where they were hooked into other Patrol paths, reducing the overall opportunity cost of camping and proxy camping if they stumble across the Hook.
- Like Pyramid Head Cages, the spawning mechanics will likely be figured out, and will be utilized in strategy.
Tunneling:
- For a new Survivor, a Conspicuous action, a buff disappearing on an action they didn't perform, time-based yes/no application of another buff they didn't choose to control, all of which are basically information overload due to needing knowledge on unknown systems rather than the environment explaining the situation. There is too much "Tell" and not enough "Show". I at least like your camping suggestion where you move the Survivor, rather than adding passive debuffs/buffs to players.
- If the Survivor gets unhooked safely and the Killer wasn't camping, and for whatever reason they both come across one another while the Survivor still has V1 Endurance up, the Killer is punished for the Survivors unfortunate circumstance. That doesn't mesh well with asymmetric gameplay, nor the theme of the game.
I find the camping suggestion interesting, but abuseable (to the point of making camping/proxy-camping stronger than it is currently). Though I think your tunneling suggestion is overly complex, and probably isn't necessary.
0 -
That's the problem. Finding a mechanics that makes sense, gives survivors (that are not compet scriming with each 5K+ hrs) chance to unhook, but not rob killer of all the pressure. That's a hard one. Defending and "tackling killer" has associated risk of fitting really bad with current game concept (where survivors are basically defense-less). Speedups/slowdowns have problem with abuse from survivor/current abuse from killer. Frankly - I don't know what would be good solution. I just know that current state is not OK
0 -
New Idea:
-Hooking a Survivor twice in a row if it's both their first and second hook state, the Entity will be called upon, pulling all hooks underground and will swap positions.
-Once all hooks have been swapped, they will then start to respawn, being pulled back out from underneath the ground.
-Once all hooks have been swapped and pulled out of the ground, the hooked Survivor will respawn on their same hook beyond 32 meters from your position.
-The Killer can NOT see the Aura of the hook the Survivor is currently on.
Hook Swaps will not occur under these conditions:
1. If it's a basement hook.
2. If all 5 Generators have been completed.
3. If the Survivor has been hooked twice in a row, but if it's their second and third hook state.
4. Hooking another Survivor will not trigger it.
0
