So with the anti-camp killers will not be able to punish gen-before-friends anymore?

Remove me from the euqation so you can't say I'm bad and I am the problem.

Go watch Otz and Truetalent. Both of them will occasionally get the "gen rush" and the game ends with 1-3 hook states. Yes it is true the majority of players cannot repair gens efficiently and be strong loopers. But what's a killer supposed to do when that happens?

When you see 9000+ hour players suffering with "real" builds you know something is wrong with the game design. I'm guessing you're not going to tell them to "get good" when they play the game for a living as a professional.

-"Gens before friends is how you counter facecamping right now, though?"

You have the situation backwards. If two gens pop while I have someone hooked then the survivor on the hook needs to pay for those gens. What happens if the killer trades 5 gens for 5 hook states? Unless those hook states are on only two players then they have likely lost the game. Things are of course different when you play Nurse and Blight but the are the exception that works. I will also remind you that the majority of the survivor player base wants to see those killers obliterated.

Gen rushing with the "gens before friends" mind set pushes the killer to camp. Why? They can't defend the generators but they can defend the player on the hook. If you leave the gens and give the killer a viable/vulnerable target then he might leave the hook to chase you.

-"If two gens pop while someone's on the hook, what is the killer doing?"

Maybe they are chasing the person that came for the rescue that they saw in the middle of the map. You need to remember that there is zero pressure on survivors that are not in a chase when the killer is busy.

Once upon a time survivors died much faster on the hook. I think it was 30 seconds faster per phase- if I am wrong someone will be sure to correct me. The theory when Horvath put that in the game was that : survivors would rush to the hook sooner to get the unhook. But that's not what happened. Survivors got +30 seconds to finish generators and then only left when they had exactly enough time to get the unhook.

Let's assume the worst and the killer is playing scummy. Two gens pop and in 15 seconds the survivor will hit the next hook state. What do you do as killer? You make them go for an unhook and force a grab. If you get the grab you drop that player immediately so you can grab the other player.

Most of the time when you play against vicious hook campers the solution to stop the camping is to unhook that player almost immediately. Almost always the killer needs to kick a generator, pallet, reset a trap or reload from a locker right after a hook event. If you're across the map chugging away on a generator then you missed the moment when the killer was occupied.

Survivors don't think like that because they don't play killer. They don't know that nearly 95% of the time I hook someone I always have some little errand to do. The other thing on survivors minds is that this is not "efficient" play; they should only unhook a player right before the next phase to optimize the team efficiency.

At that point it becomes killer efficiency vs survivor efficiency. If you're playing survivor efficiently against me then I will have to mirror that stance against you. I will camp and tunnel one player out of the game.

In as few words as possible :

It's a show of good faith to the killer that as a survivor you rescue another survivor quickly. If you're not rescuing quickly and you try to play efficiently then I will do the same and force the second stage. Then I will immediately tunnel the person off the hook because that is efficient play.

I want to leave the hook and be able to go chase other people. Often times people hide or run to areas that lead to a nearly impossible chase. If that's the way you want to play it then I will pressure you by forcing a hook state. You can preemptively counter me by rescuing your friend early.

If you don't do that then you are contributing to the "camp and tunnel" meta.

A lot of what you're describing here is just... normal DBD? You get a hook, you intercept someone nearby and chase them away from the hook, someone who is either on a nearly empty generator or a nearly finished generator peels off to save, and if the gen is nearly finished then they finish it first. Like, if they have time to finish their generator before saving (and they're not waiting until the last second, which, again, camping doesn't punish that, going and generating more pressure than they can undo punishes that), the bulk of that generator repair happened while their teammate was being chased, not while they're on hook.

I feel like I've got to be missing something because nothing you've described interacts with the new system in any way. If you leave the hook and come back to punish late saves... there are two outcomes. Either there's another survivor there and you're intercepting them, which means this new bar fills slower because another survivor is around, or there isn't and you being at the hook isn't generating any pressure because nobody was coming for that save anyway. If it's the second scenario, staying at the hook is just giving survivors free generator progress, regardless of this new anti-camp system. Hell, staying at the hook makes survivors less likely to come and save, which means they're more likely to stick on the generator.

If you want to be able to leave the hook and go chase, go do that, it's already the better idea. If survivors are sticking on generators and not going for a save that means you're putting them in a bad spot by generating more pressure while someone is still on the hook, that's cutting down on how many survivors are able to work on generators at that time. You're acting like any kind of camping that this system would punish is like, ever a good idea, let alone the best one. If other survivors are around this new system is meant to account for that, and if no other survivors are around you shouldn't be there to begin with, you aren't achieving anything by sticking near that hook.

So maybe stop complaining, don't lobby dodge, and play meaner.

I'm stomping P100s and Twitch streamers with hundreds to thousands on followers regularly.

When you see a team in a lobby that you just know are going to be one of those teams, switch to a build you have saved for the occasion and play them, anyway. It's the only way you'll get better.

You can't win every single game, no matter how good you are. I do wish that were true.

Also, I've personally found that while, obviously, builds that decimate solo queue aren't effective on "SEAL survivors", the reverse is also true. I keep multiple builds handy and do my best to guess at the skill level and strategy of the group I'm playing against.

Downing and hooking survivors is the best way to prevent gens from being done in 3-4 minutes.

That's a great idea in theory. And what happens when you're playing an older killer that doesn't have anti loop and the only chase options you have are ~2 minute minimum due to survivor favored maps.

Oh right that wouldn't work too well would it?

Again the problem is that some of the killers are mechanically outdated. Some of the maps are just extremely gross to play as any killer besides Nurse or Blight. Put the two together and you should lose every single time. Often you don't because survivors usually make at least one big mistake unless they are on voice coms.

My only problem with the anti face camp measures it that it doesnt really effect the best campers. Sure they can be a decent amount away which i presume the max range is 16 meters but then bubba, billy, blight, nurse and huntress still guarantee trades if not no trade at all while making m1s even weaker.

I never really understood why people camp and especially tunnel. If you tunnel a decent runner you will obviously get that kill in the end but at what cost usually the other 3 survivors will escape and at best you might get 2k but most people I see play this way devote so much to that one survivor and ignore the rest of the team which in the end usually ends up costing them the game.

Fair enough. Poe's law.

-"Well, generators don't have emotions nor do they get points by being unrepaired, yet human beings do have feelings and getting camped means they started a match to end it in 2-3 minutes with 2-3k points, which is the main difference."

You know what your post reminds me of?

This is the "duck rabbit". Put it in front of a child and they will see either the duck or the rabbit (but not both) depending on how the image is turned. They assume their mother sees the same image because that's what they see. This is a development test for children.

You've decided DBD to be only to be one way.

What player has the objective to defend the generators? That would be the killer. That's a player too and they have feelings. It's not a fun feeling when you can't go for any meaningful chases due to map design. It's not fun to the killer when you can't contest generators.

I will remind you that there is no possible scenario where the killer loses if the generators are not all completed.

Killers gain emblems by preventing the repair of generators. More emblems at the end of the month means more bonus blood points. So in fact your statement is factually incorrect (nor do they get points by being unrepaired).