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Do the devs know what “face camping” is?
Comments
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I've seen you say this a few times, and the thing that's been bugging me is- unhooks aren't risky?
The way it's supposed to work is this: You get a hook on one survivor, you go chase a second survivor, a third peels off their generator to get the save, the fourth stays on the generator. Barring power-specific things any one of those others needs to do or just, players choosing to be inefficient for challenges or whatever, that's how it works.
So, survivor number 3, who is going for the unhook, is... not at risk. The situation you're outlining, where two survivors are off generators because one is hooked and you go off to chase one of them, leaving the other to a "completely risk-free unhook" is... exactly the same.
This unhook isn't meant to have risk specifically because it is occupying two survivors. That's how this works. If only one came to the hook and you intercepted, there's risk, because they should've led you away or confirmed you'd left before committing to the unhook. If there are two survivors involved, one survivor's job is to distract the killer- and this system is in place to stop killers who refuse to take that bait because just standing there is the better prospect for them. Chase the survivor baiting you and you aren't losing anything because you're still occupying three survivors, you're just not getting an additional hook state out of it. Which, y'know. Fine? Not a problem.
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They aren't. They're being "forced" into getting the same value they'd have gotten if they went out and chased another survivor normally.
Right now, camping can give you better results than taking that chase. That's literally what this system is designed to fix.
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Right, but- let me try and rephrase.
Normal value is this: One hooked, one chased, one going for the save.
The scenario you're describing, with two survivors hovering just outside the 16m range, is: One hooked, one chased, one going for the save.
Yes, the save happens quicker, but the chase starts quicker too. It's the exact same value overall. What camping would change on live is that it gives you more value, and I feel like an anti-camp measure should make it so camping gives you the same value, not more.
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I think there's a fair line that can be drawn between camping when survivors are around unintelligently, like swarming the hook or looping around the hook within that 16m range, and when survivors are around more smartly- like the described situation where they're actively trying to bait you away. If survivors are putting some thought into it, I don't think they should be punished for it.
If you got less value than normal in both scenarios, I'd be with you, but since it's the same value than if nobody had been around and you left the hook straight away, I don't see a problem with it.
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Maybe, but I don't know that it's really required. There's still a lot to test with this system to begin with, and to be fair, one thing not quite discussed just yet is that if someone goes for an immediate unhook there's very little stopping you from turning around and targeting the vulnerable survivor who just got off hook. Sure, you have to wait ten seconds, but depending on context that may not be much.
Something to keep in the back pocket if necessary, though.
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Yes they do, if the killer is crying about this it means you “Face Camp”
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There is no actual threshold between proxying and face camping. Face camping implies that the killer is literally standing infront of the hooked survivor, camping them until death. Think Basement Bubbas. Proxying on the other hand is where the killer just patrols a short radius around the hooked survivor hoping to catch someone going for the rescue.
Regardless, camping is camping and there's really no point distinguishing between the different types of camping. They're all equally unfun.
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They'll be keeping an eye on the unfair self-unhooks, but other than playing ring-around-the-rosie with a survivor infront of a hooked survivor, there aren't going to be too many instances where you feel unfairly punished. Multi-floor maps like Midwich and Gideon will present difficulties with this new mechanic, but overall killers won't need to worry too much about the mechanic.
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It's as much a strategy as tunneling and genrushing are strategies. At the end of the day, all three "strategies" are unfun to play against.
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That's where you and the devs disagree. That's what the system disagrees with you on. It's been exactly a problem because it is a strategy, which renders the game unenjoyable for everyone involved.
They want to get rid of camping, not give a light slap on the wrist with a 'you can camp if you still feel like it uwu'.
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Please stop this "unfun" and "unhealthy" just because some streamer used these words now you use them for everything, it's ridiculous.
"unhealty and unfun" are bad map design, OP perks and addons, not tactics and strategies
There are a thousand variables that make this idea incredibly stupid and punitive and force the killer to make choices that don't make sense.
Classic situation : 3 survivors are in play, 2 generators remain to be repaired. I can hook a survivor, maybe one of the hooks on the hill or in the center of RPD or near the 3 gen of Dead Swang Saloon
Nearby (within 16 meters) I have a generator or two and we all know this is possible. Now, the fact that I HAVE to leave this area is ridiculous. I'm not talking about remaining fixed within 1 meter facing the survivor (THIS is face camp) but staying in defense of a strategic area and THIS is tactics
And don't tell me there are only a few maps that can have these problems because it's not true. Virtually all maps have hooks near generators ( RPD, The Game, Midwich, Blackwater, etc ), many have problems with hooks on two levels or absurd combinations and in some phases of the game, especially when few gens are missing, patrolling an area is a form of defending strong positions
I could (and I'm not) agree on the first stage self hook but SECOND STAGE self unhook plus endurance + speed boost is really ridiculous
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Don't assume that I'm saying it because a streamer said it. I've played this game for a long time, and I've observed these forums for a long time. The general consensus is that people find tunneling, camping and genrushing to be unfun. I've yet to see a single person say they find being tunneled out of the game at 5 gens to be fun. No killer ever has said they enjoy being genrushed. No survivor has raved about how much fun they're having dangling from a hook with zero chance to actually play the game.
You're complaining about a feature that's intended to solve a long-standing problem before it's even been tested. The idea is a good one, and the PTB will be used for feedback on the range. I believe that 16m is a bit much, and we could reduce that to 12m. If we reduce it to the bare-minimum range, then every killer who camps will simply stay just outside that range, effectively making it pointless.
Just because camping can be used strategically, doesn't mean that every killer is using it as part of some larger strategy. They're generally doing it because it's a guaranteed kill.
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I'm not interested in the "general consensus" or genrush, it is as it is and I adapt to the game and the opponent's tactics. If the survivors want to genrush well, I'll try to adapt to their strategy because this is the game and also the beauty, tactics against tactics, strategies against strategies. This "solution" only shows how much the Devs don't know their game, don't know their maps and don't know the dynamics during a game
As I said before there are a lot of maps, practically all of them, that can have big problems with this change just because of how hooks and gens are arranged.
Why should a good tactic (patrolling an area and defending it) be punished and made difficult? Why should a defense strategy be canceled for no reason? To prevent one game out of 10 from having no facecamp (and real facecamp)?
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Facecamping used to be a term in the early days in DBD when we had only 3 killers. Trapper was able to place a trap right in front of the hook. Survivors only were able to unhook from one direction, so the Trapper just needed to stand there to prevent the unhook.
In short, if the the killer isn't at least more than 5 meters away from the hook and not looking all the time at the hooked surv, it's just camping, not facecamping.
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