Am I just bad at Killer, or are Survivors too strong right now?
I either get completely stomped and barely have 2-3 hooks by the time they get 5 gens done, or I completely stomp them and they only finish 2. There is almost never an inbetween. Having an actual good game is super rare. I've had a few where I didn't have to tunnel and still got 2-3 kills and those feel good. But having to hard facecamp and/or Tunnel because I have 2 hooks and they're on last gen, and they spread them out so I can't 3 gen is so unfun. I hate tunneling but I HAVE to do it in most games or I won't even get 1 kill. Gens pop so extremely fast that every regression perk is completely unviable and useless. 125% of normal Regression whoopy doo that means it'll take survivors 22 seconds instead of 20 seconds to repair 1 whole minute of regression! The only useful one is Jolt, and that's just because on pretty much every M1 killer there's no better options.
Idk what it is about the games I've been having lately but it truly feels like tunneling is a requirement if I want to get even just 2 kills most of the time. With how fast gens fly by when 2 people have boxes, Prove Thyself, and maybe a few other tools for gen speed, and God forbid one of them has a BNP. Which means you are forced to take someone out of the game as quickly as possible or before you know it all gens will be done. And if you injured everyone too bad, because Adrenaline is picked by over 25% of all Survivors, and if that pops not only can you not catch them, but they've also healed instantly. Incredible.
I've started playing Survivor with a No Mither build and even when I'm basically exposed all the time I have so much more fun than as Killer. When I'm playing Killer it's a constant battle with frustration while I desperately try to get 1-2 kills and getting annoyed when 2 gens pop in a minute when I'm on first chase. But with Survivor, I can genuinely just have fun. Maybe I'm just bad at Killer, but playing Killer is just so demoralizing in so many games.
Comments
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I've been saying this - people think things are getting more balanced but the reality is, the more watered down everything has gotten, the more extreme the games have gone. One side almost always dominates, and you always know fairly early on in the match who it'll be.
Say what you will about the "OP" perks/mechanics/add-ons/etc in the past, but matches felt like they had a lot more stakes to them, or that they could change at any time, because either side could use them to swing the match in their favor.
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Stop camping and tunneling for kills and you'll have fun matches.
The way you're playing is to win so you'll be playing against others that are also playing to win. But if that's how you want to play by all means go right ahead.
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this is nonsense, You can screw around and be Mr. nice killer all you want, survivors usually just ignore you and push gens or teabag and spam every stun mechanic they have nonstop.
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I didn't say be nice.
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I disagree with this statement. That, by my own 'testing' does not work and typically makes things feel even worse. At least with camping you are at least (sort of) pressuring 2 survivors. If you leave and they get insta unhooked there is a very good possibility you will not be able to hook a survivor again, especially considering SWFs and map offerings, and given OPs description it's likely a lot of the struggle is the imbalance with SWFs.
OP, I definitely feel you on this one. I never can maintain pressure on the survivors/gens even going 'full meta' type builds. God forbid you try to play a special build just for fun.
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Again if you're playing to win (Camping and tunneling for the 3k 4k) then you should go against others (SWF) that are playing to win.
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“Don’t try to win” is still the funniest thing people say in complete seriousness.
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The chase to gen speed ratio is off and has been off for a while. But it was hidden due to the 3 gen meta that was going on previously. Now that it has been nerfed and there really aren't any good slowdown perks anymore that slow the game down enough against these good survivors it can be quite bad.
Also with toolboxes and things like hyperfocus having come into the meta, really good survivors can exploit those to really shave off time on a gen to be around 60 seconds, or even faster if they get good RNG.
My personal advice to you is to do what i do which results in me getting more fun games most of the time.
- On the 13th of the month, when the ranks reset, tryhard to get rank 1 as fast as possible
- After that, start playing a "game" within the game. Where you goal now becomes to 2 hook every survivor, and then kill the obsession once the gate has opened. It doesn't have to be the obsession, but for me i'm "roleplaying" a bit and try to go for the obsession. Also the obsession gets bonus points for dying as the obsession, so it makes up for them not escaping a bit.
- If you 2 hook every survivor and they aren't done with gens, start downing them with your power or hits, and chases to max out your bloodpoints.
- Once the gates are powered, try to get in a chase with the obsession and down them, then wait for the gate to open, or open the gate yourself, and hook the survivor.
- Bonus points if you want to run rancor and do this.
- Let the others escape.
This results in a few things:
- you only getting 1 kill, but still getting around 36k bloodpoints, nearly capping hook states while capping the other 3.
- 3 survivors escape, meaning the game thinks you "lost" so your MMR goes down.
- The survivors tend to have more fun and are less toxic in the endgame, often thanking you for a good time.
- The survivors get a ton of bloodpoints
- The killer gets a ton of bloodpoints.
- Because your MMR goes down, your next match, in theory is more chill.
If you do this for a while, you start to notice that you stop getting matched against top survivors and you can play more fun more chill matches. If the matches get a little too easy or boring for you, play a few games where you kill all the survivors as fast as possible to increase your MMR and get matched against better survivors until you get that sweet spot of fun but chill. Once i hit that sweet spot, which usually only takes a few days after i'm done tryharding for rank 1, i will often play a couple matches like this, then tryhard for a match, and repeat this every few games, keeping me in that sweet spot.
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i think what he meant was if you do things that lack any time of skill such as camping, and you go above your head on mmr. eventually you are going to put yourself on a class where those people do know how to defeat your camp strategy and at that point, you will be complaining the killer you are trying to use isnt powerful becasue you unnaturally moved your self into a classification where you cant do anything.
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Pretty much exactly what one of the devs said
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Simple words.
You should enjoy your lose.
You should not play for win in a video game.
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Or, more accurately, if you don't want to have to sweat to get a win don't sweat and the game will move you to a 60% win rate. Camping and tunneling isn't good in the long term for anyone. For survivors that's in the short term as the skill needed to counter camping and tunneling is much higher than the skill needed to camp and tunnel. For Killers it's in the long-term as Killers will eventually get matched against survivors they have no hope of beating in chase and very little chance of gaining chase skills since they're so used to camping and tunneling. And they'll still only have about a 60% win rate in the end just like the Killers who aren't camping and tunneling.
Take the pain (initial losses) for the long term gain (becoming a better Killer).
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To sum it up play sweaty (Camp, tunnel, gen-rush) will yield more sweaty opponents. Playing chill and go for hooks (like I do) and you have chill games.
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You're not losing because of the game balance, you're losing because you are being matched against 5000+ hour players.
The player count is at an all time low. You, as a casual player, expect the game to match you against other casual players, and it seems that's why other people advise to lower your MMR. But what you're all missing, is that there aren't any other casual players to match you against. Casual players are not playing DBD right now. There's no event, no tome, no grade, and DC merchant made the rare survivors who attempted soloQ probably regret their choice and play something else.
Try to play again in June, maybe it'll be better. But sadly, I think the game is probably on its final decline, and the matches will only get sweatier over time.
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If you play just for the win, you'll destroy the other side usually (marked as "fun"). Just don't be upset and complain on the forums when you go against players that put your ego in check.
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maybe all the survivors who constantly complain about solo queue should just stop trying so hard so their mmr will go down and they'll face easier killers
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Since solo queue has an average escape rate of like 30% (or less) I don't think MMR is an issue for most
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You're acting offended that people told you truth. The way MMR works is more wins/ harder opponents. That works for survivors AND killers.
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It's hard to tell without seeing gameplay.
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1 thing I know about playing as Killers:
Given equal skill, which side try harder win the match. Its simple to understand that you may beat so many equal skill teams, and even better skill one because you try far harder. Only MMR can humble you by matching you against teams that have skill far superior to you that even the hardest try, you dont have a chance to win.
My way to play is aim for 8 hooks before kill. Weaker teams would lose to me anyway. Until MMR put my at correct place, 8 hooks before kill still give me roughly 2-3 kills every match.
Know my place that I should not be at high MMR. And I have fun every match, unless its a toxic squads
" Should stop trying so hard for 4K every match so their mmr will go down and they'll face easier teams" would be more correct quote to killers.
If 39% escape rate is already try so hard, how low is the escape rate for survivors to consider they're not try hard?
Post edited by C3Tooth on4 -
Decline in player count is a huge issue here. There aren’t enough available players across all skill levels to constantly fill matches at any given time, so the matchmaking system gives up after a minute or two and just throws you in with whoever is next in line, regardless of MMR.
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Yeah survivors are too strong.
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This really isn’t true, though. We all know through experience that the matchmaking systems functionally does not work because it heavily prioritizes speed over fairness. Lots of people on this forum, myself included, are constantly going back and forth between matches filled with noobs and matches filled with 5,000 hour+ sweat lords. Doesn’t matter how many matches I win or lose.
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This is just marvelous. I hope everyone gets a chance to read this. It is what Killers need to know. Camping and tunneling cripples you. It does not make you better at this game. If you want to be seen as a legend, you're going to have to struggle against more intelligent, knowledgeable survivors. This is not COD where you load up and mindlessly rack up kills and rank up. It gets harder and harder the more successful you are.
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You literally just said why though. It is because of the declining player base numbers. The matchmaking system will just throw you in with whoever is queueing because it doesn't want you waiting forever for a match.
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You're using a false equivalence though. What does a sweaty Killer look like? Most meta strategy possible alongside tunneling and camping.
What does a sweaty survivor look like? Most meta strategy possible, best items, 4 person SWF, voice call outs, coordinated perks etc.
Okay, now how does a solo queue survivor replicate that? The solo might have the most meta perks and items but do their teammates? No. Are perks synergistically coordinated? No. Are there voice call outs? No. Is there a chance 4 randoms who can't see each other's perks, items, and can't communicate are going to be as effective as that 4 person SWF? No.
Now, after playing with their 4 person SWF and crushing it for awhile what happens when a member of the SWF plays solo? They die. A lot. Or all their teammates die. When they play sweaty SWF, though, they get sweaty Killers. A Killer is just easier to be sweaty with since you don't have to coordinate with three other people.
It boils down to the same thing though. If you don't want sweaty matches don't play sweaty. If you do play sweaty don't complain about SWFs being strong or Killers being brutally efficient; you signed up for it by being sweaty.
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?
We're at about the same position as we were in last year?
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Just stop playing Killer, you can come back after the Killer population declines again and Devs introduce new incentives/ buffs for the role.
The playing chill to get more chill games theory doesn’t even work from a long term perspective. Even if more people play chill, Matchmaking will still put them against better Survivors if no Killer is online to entertain said Survivors.
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The way I understood it is it's an average. So one survivor should be below ur rank another will be above ur rank and final two will be closer to your rank (or high and low again). But it should even out in a perfect world. Yes queue can make it toss that equation out of the windows, though.
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Survivors are definitely not in a strong spot rn everything they have keeps getting nerfed no more dh no more coh no more stupid medkits this is literally the best time to play killer as most frustrations from the Survivor side are no more.
so i really doubt it's that you go against strong Survivors and more like you're not playing killer well but can't be sure since you haven't posted gameplay.
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For me, I just kinda stopped having much fun against SWFs. Even games I get a 4k aren't that fun against SWF players. I don't want to stomp on a team but I want to have a game that feels fun and I just don't find that to be the case in SWF
Post edited by IWasLeft2Die on0 -
Can't really answer the main question without knowing which killer you're playing.
If it's Nurse, Blight, Or Spirit then yeah you just need more practice.
For the rest of the cast it depends on:
A) do they have busted add-ons
B) are you running them every match
If either are untrue than your killers power level might be stopping you from being able to compete with good teams and/or how strong most of the maps are.
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What people really want nerfed is good survivors. They don't like being outplayed by strong teams that can't be easily facecamped or tunneled. Some people seem like they just want to cruise to victory without any real opposition. Objectively survivor has been heavily nerfed compared to a year ago.
- Circle of Healing nerfed
- Dead Hard nerfed
- Iron Will nerfed
- Decisive Strike nerfed
- Spine Chill/Resilience vault build nerfed
- Medkits nerfed
- Speed Boost on hit nerfed
- Gens increased by 10 seconds
I really don't understand what people want them to nerf when practically everything has already been nerfed. The only thing that hasn't been nerfed is toolboxes at this point. I heard for years about how dead hard was the reason everyone was losing. It's gone and people are still complaining. Complaints are so silly now that there are people whining about windows of opportunity of all things.
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Although those nerfs do exist, killers have been neefed pretty heavily too (and will be soon getting more nerfs as well). I'm also not just including this last year since I've only come back in the last couple months
-nearly every gen regression perk nerfed (call of Brine, hex ruin, pop goes the Weasle, pain resonance, eruption to name a few)
-camping nerfed (more so soon)
-borrowed time base kit for survivors
There are obviously other big changes, but I think on the whole killers have gotten more heavy nerfs since entire methods of playing (Gen kicking, camping, etc) are getting done away with while survivors is mostly having single perks nerfed that don't prevent a method of playing being viable.
And to be clear, I'm not saying some of the changes shouldn't have happened but losing an entire method of playing is much more frustrating than a single perk getting kicked down.
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You don't need to camp and tunnel to win.
Camping for the kills is increasing your MMR giving (OP) harder matches.
If your playing like that you should get harder teams that are also playing to win. Why should you get weak teams to play against?
Again you don't need to camp and tunnel to get kills if you have to then you don't belong in that area of MMR.
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This is from 1 person, in the same topic.
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I have around 250h as killer. I assume with spirit I have my highest MMR, because here survivors I go against are really good and in worst cases I only get one or two hooks. Not a single mindgame works, they know how to run every tile and building, they seem always to know where I am, and so on. Of course it feels bad to lose that hard, but I'm fine with it, as they are clearly better.
What I don't get is when watching popular killer streamers, who are winning in more than 90 % of their matches, the survivors seem to be worse as the ones I'm facing. They get super easy hits and the survivors can't loop efficiently. Is it only because the streamers are that good and don't let the survivors shine? It just looks so flawless from my perspective.
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I see, another reason why I say kills/escapes should not be the answer to MMR all it does is increase their ego and make them think their good and better then you when their really not.
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I prefer it that way. You play only for kill, matched against survivors play only for escape. Perfect pair.
MMR count on hook only make camping 2 hooks for 2 kills play against more newbie where they can 4 hooks 4 kills. And again, drop MMR. I dont like that I care for other side's fun, play for 8 hooks before kill and matched against Ayrun and other great streamers.
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To each their own
I play for hooks not kills try to make a fun match. I win some and I lose some but I play for the 12 hooks a game.
Really 11 hooks I leave the last one alive to tell the tale of the Spirit.
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I find it more rewarding when you do get the kill plus I like the challenge. I only let the last one go if it was a good team. Bad team I'll play around with them (practice) let them get some points, but I go for the 4K.
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If you only get 2-3 hooks you're probably just bad (no offense). Don't hate tunneling, use those 2-3 hooks on one person then with a 3v1 you got the game in the bag even with only 1 or no gens left. Some games ur gonna generally get stomped but it shouldn't happen every match. Just try every killer and make sure you have a full build on them. Add-ons help tremendously, but more so the add-ons that don't make you change your playstile but instead just help out bake kit
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seems like you really don't get it.
"Improve yourself" including lot of things , it could be chasing skill, better mind reading, gaming sense etcetc.
If you try to win in the game, you will naturely.......at least for killer will naturely try to do their best at every part of it.
And strategy is one of them.
It could be 3 gens, hit and run,sluging , tunnel or even camping.
You couldn't just think nothing in game and wish that you somehow win the game, no you can't.....at least for killer.
You must have a plan and keep improve your plan with every game.
And right now, these plans leads killer to tunnel and camping because killer NEED to get that 25% debuff to survivor for remove 1 player ASAP.
And yes of couse ,your oppoent will be stronger and stronger just like you, nobody complain about it.
What people complain about is that in high......no even in normal level gameplay.
Survivors are so easier than killer.
people can constanly being down in 30 sec with every chase and still wining.
People are complain about the balance of the game, not their oppoent are too strong.
These is totally different.
Idealy people would want their oppoent become stronger and stronger ,so all of your hard work to improve yourself will have it's meaning.
But right now,most of the time when you lose as a killer, you asking yourself "Why am i losing? how could i get the wining next time?", you can't really find the answer,you feel like you already do what the best you can do,but the game just ....... not balance,which is the most depair moment at least for me,and that's why i am complaining.
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I don't know what you're going on about or why you're referring me to section 1 paragraph 2 of the killer handbook, I don't need it or care to follow it. You can't get better if every one of your wins (all your kills) is by camping tunneling off hook. You are not learning anything. You're moving up higher MMR matches going against stronger teams.
Again for the forth time (OP) was talking about going against stronger teams that they couldn't deal with they got there because they camped and tunneled.
If you are playing for kills you are playing to win, you should go against others that are playing to win. If you can't deal with those type of matches then STOP CAMPING AND TUNNELING!!!
Post edited by I_am_Negan on7 -
I came here, expecting "gid gud" and "lol. skill issues", but the very first comment is a measured response and solid answer. Awesome! Maybe there is hope for this community?
But you are right, I have said this for a very long time: every basekit waters the game down and allows everyone to pick the strongest options without having to "equip unfun perks", actually solidifying the meta. IMHO, if something in the game bothers you so much that you want the counter perk to be basekit, WHY wouldn't you not just equip that perk?
But instead of that we get endless crys and wailings from both sides, nerfes and basekits aplenty, and still most players get the nagging feeling that the game is at its lowest point since forever, even though mathematically it should be at its most balanced.
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It's MMR...
you get a win in one match then they put you into the next match to see if you actually can perform at the next level
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Almost everyone commenting on this thread needs to work on their reading comprehension skills for the SAT. You're all focusing on the OP saying that sometimes he gets steamrolled (and drooling at the opportunity to tell someone to GIT GUD), without reading the part where he says that the other half of the time he steamrolls the survivors, and the real issue is that matches are currently usually one of the two extremes with very few matches in the middle.
Telling a killer to "play more nicely" is only going to result in more matches where he's steamrolled, because the survivors aren't "playing more nicely" at the same time, and telling a survivor to "play more nicely" is just going to be detrimental to them for the same reason.
Although I'd rather a new mechanic encourage players to play more nicely than force them to, I'm hopeful that the new hook camping mechanic will make killers play more nicely, which in the short term will make things awful for killers, but if BHVR is smart about how they counterbalance that then maybe everyone will be encouraged to play more nicely and matches will be more balanced.
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You get that my first comment there was in response to someone saying the second comment except about killers right? Killers are constantly told “don’t camp and tunnel, stop trying so hard so your mmr will drop”
I don’t seriously believe the second comment, I was just being facetious. But that’s the exact sentiment being expressed towards killers over and over and over and it’s a little frustrating that the same never applies to survivors. It’s a double standard and it bums me out.
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this is brilliant and I will try it!
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It's kind of both. The game is still fairly killer sided, but that's only when both sides are good at the game. It's a lot easier to be a good survivor than a good killer, but once you actually become a good killer, you win at least 90% of your games. And no, it doesn't matter what killer you use.
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