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Why do people always overreact to new survivor perks?
I don't understand how this keeps happening. Most of the time new survivor perks are really bad, but for some reason every time a PTB comes, there always an outrage about some survivor perk being OP or game breaking. And they never are, they are always niche, ok or just terrible.
In the past year, all of this perks were said to be broken:
- Hyperfocus
- Wiretap
- Reassurance
- Fogwise
- Quick Gambit
- Potential Energy
- Friendly Competion
- Blood Rush
- Cut Loose
Maybe we should wait and see if the perk is really OP instead of seeing niche scenarios on PTB and just asking for nerfs.
None of this perks turned out to be OP, some of them turned out to be really bad.
Maybe the new survivor perks are OP, but honestly with the majority of new survivor perks being so bad, i would like for them to atleast try them out before nerfing them if they are too much.
The devs said they would do quicker balance changes if necessary
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It happens like clockwork. There's always killer perks I dislike the sound of but I always wait until they hit live and if they prove to be popular then I plan for it (eg during the gen kick meta, Nowhere to Hide was very popular so I brought Distortion a fair bit). If they prove to be unpopular then whatever, good thing I didn't waste time stressing over them. Getting worked up over 'what ifs' is pointless.
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Agreed, last new survivor perk i used at all was from yoichi
Post edited by IlliterateGenocide on1 -
I have yet to see anyone complain about Quick Gambit, Friendly Competition and Cut Loose. The other perks all are or were extremely abusable. The reason you don't see them often is because most survivor groups are not good enough to utilize them. This is partly because SWFs benefit way more from these effects.
The new perks are ridiculous. Can't wait to see when the first survivors discover that running at an extra 3% can actually enable some infinite loops again. Or maybe we don't need build to last anymore and run Scavenger instead. Saving 20 seconds on a gen is not enough, let's go with 40. Keep in mind that everyone can do this for the low price of one perk and one item. You do not need to dedicate entire builds to gen rushing when you can do it that easy and save 160 seconds (of 450 seconds).
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The new killer has a perk that gives 7% haste just for kicking a gen. An extra 3% is easily countered by that.
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7% Haste for kicking a generator and then survivors completing that generator.
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Read the whole perk please. That perk is niche and trash.
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"The new perks are ridiculous. Can't wait to see when the first survivors discover that running at an extra 3% can actually enable some infinite loops again."
(Flashbacks to people complaining about Boon: Dark Theory being OP)
Also, I absolutely love that thought process. "No, the perks are broken regardless of how much use they see or how many complimentary perks you need to make them even remotely work, it's just survivors are bad lul"
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4 perks << 16 perks.
Machine Learning works for exactly 30 seconds and cannot be triggered on command. It is good but not comparable to an unlimited 3% bonus, that always comes right when you need it and that will not run out. Keeo in mind, if even one survivor can create an infinite loop for themselves the game, that puts the killer at a huge disadvantage.
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Still, machine learning looks like a better tinkerer for me, i havent tried it yet but it does not seem a bad perk at all.
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Because Killer players like to overreact. And funnily enough, the only Perks which were really used for years were new Killer Perks. In every chapter you can be sure that at least one Survivor Perk will be called OP. Sad thing is that even Content Creators usually follow this route with at least one Perk each Chapter.
IMO it would be really sad if Made for This would be nerfed before it hits live, because it seems to be an alternative to Exhaustion-Perks. And for some reason Killers complain about Exhaustion-Perks a lot, but when BHVR offers an Alternative which can drive players away from Exhaustion Perks (personally, I still think Lithe or Sprint Burst are better, so Survivors will prefer those over Made for It), it is also not fine. Just shows that Killers just want Survivors to have super-weak Perks.
But I already think this will be a Reassurance-situation where the Perk will be made basically useless before it hits the Live Servers (remember Reassurance? That Anti-camping Perk which should not work against camping...). Because the Chapter will sell well, the Killer is at least decent.
Good Survivor Perks are nowadays only brought when they are cash-grabs like MoM or CoH. So we can expect the next strong Survivor Perk which will not nerfed from PTB to live when Nicolas Cage comes out. But I have no hopes for Made for It leaving the PTB like that.
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Because people see the extremely forced scenarios of a perk tested to the very limits in PTB and get scared thinking it will be broken.
I remember how many users were demanding for reassurance to be removed because they thought survivors would spam it over and over to the first hooked and destroy killer 'camp' strategies, not realizing that unless the killer is really determined to just wait by a hook even if he sees the hooked survivor being reassured over and over there is no real benefit in leaving 25% of your team immobilized.
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Can't wait to see when the first survivors discover that running at an extra 3% can actually enable some infinite loops again.
Then why aren't you complaining about Blood Pact, Dark Theory, Teamwork: Power of Two, or even Hope?
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Because all these perks have huge limitations.
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People are obsessed with niche scenarios that require actual cooperation from the opponents just to prove something has the potential to maybe be OP and plz nerf.
It's tiring.
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I, for once, am glad to see a new perk that has a decent effect and does not force you to set your entire perk build into getting some value.
If you look at the most recent survivor perks they are usually:
Completely useless(Corrective Action)
Have a wall of restrictions(Potential Energy/Blood Rush)
Nerfed versions of existing perks(Friendly competition)
Extremely situational(Cut Loose)
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While I don't think they'll break the game by any means I suspect they'll be problematic.
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I'll never forget the time when people were freaking out about Counterforce.
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Some of those perks have never been complained about that much, additionally it's due to BHVR typically putting ridiculously strong one time effects into the game survivor side that have huge game swinging implications(something like blood rush) while killers get beyond mediocre perks that have nowhere near that capability(leverage).
Survivor players bemoan every patch if there's not a perk on the level of dead hard, old ds, old mom, old CoH, unbreakable, bt before becoming baseline. Or they say something akin to "yeah it's broken but a solo guy playing Spotify and talking to his friends while petting his dog can't pull it off so it's actually weak". Reassurance is a great example of a perk that is still plenty strong but because it didn't literally turn off hook stages like in PTB survivors call it worthless/bad. Meanwhile killers get perks like leverage, septic touch, terminus, etc.
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Tinkerer works for every gen. Machine Learning works once per match.
Don't get me wrong, the effect is good but the fact that it only works once and then deactivates is a huge downside. Unlike Lethal Pursuer it has no further effect and it isn't as valuable (at least for me) to get a considerable easier hit one time. Because it won't do much more than that.
Blood Pact: Strong effect with severe limitations. It's not as versatile as getting a free 3% speed bonus every time your injured.
Dark Theory: 2% in a limited area and only as long as the boon is active. Weaker effect and more ristricted.
Teamwork: Power of Two: It's pretty much a meme. Even, if it was a 10% speed bonus it would still be weak because it only works with 2 survivors in a range of 12 metres from each other. The effect once again isn't bad but the risk you take by being so close together, which makes looping almost impossible because you will get in each others way renders the perk too risky to be good.
Hope: Very strong perk. Only you need to finish all 5 gens before it actually does something, which limits you to play with 3 perks throughout the match.
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Well cause usually in ptb they are crazy and they have to be nerfed for full release then it seems like people have overreacted but really it was just nerfed for full release. (Amazing in PTB, balanced in full release)
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Happens on both sides.
People overvalue the perks and the killers power by a lot usually.
Last chapter people were actually saying "THWACK!" was going to be a great perk, and "Leverage" was going to usher in a new age of healing slowdown.
Where are both perks? In the trash.
People were saying Sadako and PH (both) were absolutely busted. Where are they now? Still not strong enough to compete with good teams and never were.
I've just taken the practice of dropping a killer down a tier or 2 compared to where everyone is saying they're at, same with the perks unless they're obviously and easily busted and/or abused.
Tbf, "Hyperfocus" can be/is disgusting, it just needs more work than most players want to put in (thankfully).
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Because whether or not it's 100% true, the community perception is that complaining early, loudly, and as often as humanly possible gets things nerfed before they go live.
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Remember people thought Overcome was going to be better then old dead hard?
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Content creators do this every PTB with all the perks unless they are unsalvageable. If they can force the perk value on the PTB against survivors clearly not great at the game or messing around, it's "insane". I don't remember who, but they did the same thing with "THWACK!", saying its going into their builds forever. 2 days later, gone from builds lol.
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Did you honestly ever, ever seen someone use Blood Rush and make you feel it was a ridiculously strong one time effect with huge game swinging implications?
I dont want to be that guy telling "show me video evidence for this" But i havent seen any kind of play using this perk aside from ptb testing and doing tome challenges.
Now i agree that killer's got some mediocre perks released but the same or worse happened to survivor. Except for some outliers like Coh(which has been nerfed 3 times already), Reassurance and maybe Hyperfocus none of the other recently added perks had been used consistently.
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Maybe im dumb but how is it an alternative to exhaustion perks, can't I just use deadhard and lithe along with it and trigger them when the 3% is not enough to counter bloodlust? Like I see it having very good synergy with those exhaustion perks.
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Yall really think survivors are gonna switch out their ol reliable Prove Thyself for a niche perk like Scavenger...absolutely not.
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People love overreacting in this community in general.
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And so does the new one. You cannot use a single exhaustion perk- easily the strongest survivor perks in the game- and any exhausted addons, mindbreaker, or that new Singularity perk, also disable it.
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The speed boost does not apply while Exhausted.
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Maybe because two of the new survivor perks are two of the most busted they have ever released, do behaviour not have an internal play tester who tests these things before release. The biggest complaint of killer’s by a mile these days is genrushing, so why on earth would they release a perk like scavenger is beyond me.
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You’re wrong it doesn’t cause exhaustion, only can’t be used when exhausted. It’s gonna bring dead hard back to meta too.
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You cannot compare those two perks at all. Just because 7%>3% doesn’t mean that the perk with the 7% haste is better. Look at all the other factors to it.
For the killer to get the 7% haste from Machine Learning, they need to kick multiple gens and survivors need to complete that gen that was kicked second, and the killer only gets the movement speed for 30 seconds. With Made for This, the survivor gets 3% haste for simply just being injured, no other requirements.
You cannot compare the two at all.
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Because worst case scenarios hold the most ground in our heads. Hyperfocus+stakeout vastly boosted genrushing especially with bnp, so people got scared that combo would become meta and called for nerfs. But turns out hyperfocus equires a build around it to be worth bringing over other perks, so its completely fine.
wiretap was thought to make looping way too easy bc some gens have tiles around them, but survivors try to loop AWAY from the generators with progress so they get completed. This worry ignored how survs actually play, looping with wiretap is throwing unless totally necessary.
Reassurance, while not overpowered, is INCREDIBLY good. It cuts killer pressure in half for 30s, bc 2 ppl normally need to be off gens when someones hook but with reassurance it cuts down to 1 for 30s. Very strong, and also very strong anti camp. On the ptb though, everyone could bring reassurance and a survivor on hook wouldn't die. But that got removed so its all good.
Fogwise - crossmap aura reading for 1 skillcheck. People thought it'd provide way too much info, especially to swfs. but rng and the fact its gen exclusive makes it less useful.
Bloodrush - old sprintburst flashbacks, click f to go speedge? ppl were terrified lmao, but it has so many activation conditions that its useless.
Potential energy- instant 20% is scary, what else can I say?
quick gambit, friendly competition, cut loose, are all TERRIBLE. people afraid of these are either bad at the game or dont understand why they suck.
Most killers look at "OMG 3% BOOST??" and think, "well huntress is gonna suck now, effective 107% killer." and stuff like that forgetting lower speed killers have ways to go nyoom or down survivors quicker. as a killer player I was actually afraid of fogwise on the ptb, but after a while I saw people stop using it because there were just better perks to bring. lots of times on ptbs the perks are actually insane and need nerfs (looking at you ptb reassurance) or are straight up unhealthy.
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Normally I'd be inclined to agree, but in this case it's a bit of a "boy who cried wolf" scenario because Scavenger really is that bad. Made For This I think people might be overreacting to, but there's no ambiguity or redeeming context for Scavenger.
Also, in fairness, not every perk you listed there is equal. People said that Hyperfocus would be OP... and it kinda is, that perk needs to be nerfed so it doesn't work with toolboxes. Nobody runs it, and it's extremely strong, those two things can be true at the same time. Similarly, people complained about Reassurance being broken on the PTB... because it was, it was pretty easy to grief your teammates with it. That perk got fixed, but the complaints at the time were still valid.
Toolboxes are already too strong, the way Scavenger interacts with them is - functionally, realistically, for a majority of survivor players' skill level - too much. I imagine it probably won't see much use, but that doesn't make it balanced.
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It's cause BHVR wants to make perks that will be used (so that it will be nerfed later... LOL)
But also the fact that players on the PTB are playing the same as live... not using the new perks unless provoked and make an entire build centered around it... then call it weak if they die
All in all... it's us as players of the game...
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Yes I know that but what stops me from using it alongside with lithe/deadhard and using the speed boost until when I see the bloodlust is catching up then triggering my exhaustion perk?
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That's right. But it sure does apply before using these perks. Run Balanced Landing as a plan B and you have a very good chase build. DH would also have great synergy with it.
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In the interest of balance, I think it's important to point out that means the killer's anti-exhaustion tools are twice as effective, considering they're disabling two perks instead of the usual one.
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Very true. I must admit, that I did not consider this.
Although, there aren't a lot of good tools killers have to cause the exhaustion effect. Some killers have addons to do that and I guess there is always Mind Breaker but that's about it. Blood Echo isn't really reliable enough to take up 25% of the killer's perks.
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True enough! Honestly, I think the Singularity's new anti-Exhaustion perk might be one of the better ones once it hits live.
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You mean why is the Internet the Internet?
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I mean Dark Theory allows survivors to run faster (and vault faster too) yet I’ve seen that perk used only once since Yoichi released. And that one doesn’t even require a survivor to be injured.
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As I said, it's only active in a limited area and only as long as the boon is active. These are 2 massive downsides, that render the perk too situational to be good. That is not the case with Made For This.
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Personally, I think Dark Theory is quite comparable to Made for This. True, DT exists in a finite area. But a limited area is a place where a survivor would be looping, at least partially. Unless they’re running you across the map which would be humiliating & have zero to do with any perk.
I’ll concede that Dark Theory requires some strategy. But Made for This does too. And it doesn’t increase vault speed. What it does do is exchange a health state for a small boost to running forward. So maybe it’s better for hold W strategies but I think Dark Theory is more beneficial for looping.
In any case, you’re giving hysteria & fear mongering. And that’s distressing. I hope you laughed cuz you’re a killer main. :)
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"You’re wrong it doesn’t cause exhaustion,"
Show me where I said it makes you exhausted. I said it cannot be used with a single exhaustion perk, because it deactivates when exhausted.
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It can be used with any exhaustion perk except sprint burst.
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That isn't a quote of where I said it caused exhaustion.
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Reassurance isn't useless
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