Am I just bad at Killer, or are Survivors too strong right now?
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I can't remember which YouTuber I watched recently, but what you said reminded me of what they said. It was something like:
"The game is definitely the most balanced it's been, but that doesn't mean it's the healthiest it has ever been"
This guy said that really the game needs to have an imbalance at its core, because there was always something to fight for and it brings out more in the players.
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Recently, changes have been made towards survivors mostly focusing on gens and killers to focus on changes. As a result, there is much less a killer can do against fast gens than they could before, so unless pressure is gained early, it takes some mistakes by survivors to lose. The killer really needs to get those quick downs early on.
If you're to get there, you just need to keep practicing and practicing. Treat trials as ways to experiment and test what works best. Maybe one trial you can practice loops or another different tactics with the power. However, it is just about practicing to imprpve your odds.
Also, do not beat yourself up if you have a bad trial. Likewise, don't look for excuses which you have no control over. Recap what worked and what didn't work after every trial and use the next to practice on those things.
You can do much better when you have a mindset which is: "Okay, I was decent towards the end, but that first down took too long. Maybe I focus on how long I should commit to a chase next trial".
It is a far better mindset than: "OMG! Frickin' gen rush and those meta perks - no way I had a chance".
Not saying that those games don't happen, but are you going to improve by believing there was absolutely nothing you can do, or that maybe there were a couple of things that you feel you can do better next time.
With that mindset, you will start winning some more and with more confidence.
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-"I either get completely stomped and barely have 2-3 hooks by the time they get 5 gens done, or I completely stomp them and they only finish 2. There is almost never an inbetween."
That's the basic idea however as you win more as killer you start seeing more of the survivor favored side than the other.
-"I hate tunneling but I HAVE to do it in most games or I won't even get 1 kill. Gens pop so extremely fast that every regression perk is completely unviable and useless."
The professional players who stream DBD for a living tunnel to win tough matches so you should too.
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Yes, and the matchmaking was just as bad then as it is now.
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But I’m told that tunneling means you’re bad at the game
/s
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Can I ask what killer(s) you are playing?
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What killer players are winning 90% of their matches? Please, introduce us to these god-levels players so we can learn their secrets of success.
Pro streamers who play 16 hours/day don’t count. I’m talking about the average player who plays a few times a week
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You guys are like 400 rated chess players complaining that you can't win against Magnus Carlson
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I find it makes games much more fun.
Basically though, just stop tryharding, lose a bunch of games so your MMR goes down, and set a different win condition for yourself. When you meet that win condition, even if the game thinks you "lost" you'll still feel great about it, because you won in your eyes for the win condition you set yourself. And the cycle repeats.
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Don't trust who say that survivors are overnerfed. They often bring up nerfs that are months and months old. On the other hand, if we look at the killer side, in every patch you can see killer perks' nerfed to the ground. Currently, killers have jolt as their only useful slowdown, pop is occasional, eruption no longer prevents anything, pain resonance was randomly nerfed just because it was used so much, and anyone who says it stays strong has no idea what people are at high mmr.
Yes, survivor is the power role now, they can devour gens without problems since killers don't have efficient slowdown anymore. Survivor is way more chill than killer, even when I win when I play killer I am too stressed. Simply killer is the hard role in the game, it has always been like this, but now it really is hell. Don't listen to anyone who says "Eh but killer is too easy, it's never been easier" because it's a huge bullshit
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Ever tried playing for fast downs instead of slow downs?
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Usually in 30 seconds I make the first hook. In these 30 seconds 2 gen pops. But remember don't tunnel, because if you tunnel you're bad.
Casually, when I tunnel, I make the second kill around 2 gens/ 1 gen and half remaining, so I 100% make a 3/4 (I don't slug for the 4/4, I'm happy with the 3/4, it's still a win)
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In what world can 3 survivors do 2 gens in 30 seconds?
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Welcome to high MMR dbd, a place where there are very few people.
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There is a guy on this forum who is the best of the best killer main in the game (I won't tag him since I don't want that he thinks that I'm making fun of him or offending him). He defends survivors because killer is too easy, he probably can make 12 hooks with Freddy with no perks and add ons! Really an amazing player
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Survivors have been "too strong" since the game's release, lol.
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Killers when they play survivor: "I may not be winning but I don't care about winning anyway, I just want to relax."
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Until 2020/2021 the game was balanced, then devs said "Well, let's make survivors rush gens and let's destroy every slowdown". If you look at every patch you will see the difference in nerf between survivors and killers. Survivors' important perks are nerfed after months/years, killers have seen something different nerfed every month even if not necessary (Pain resonance for example)
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WHAT IS THIS TAKE?
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You're ignoring that BHVR only started perk overhauls a year ago *and* said at the time that it would be a frequent occurrence going forward. So I get why it seems like it took years for survivor perk nerfs (since that happened in the first overhaul) and months for killers (since those happened in the subsequent overhaul) but it's purely a new thing they are doing.
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Simply the truth? Let's not kid ourselves, let's be honest, as I will always say: look at all the patches, how much gen speed stuff have they nerfed? Maybe one, how many slowdown perks have they nerfed? Virtually all, and even very heavily.
The "then devs said" part is pure irony, I don't think they really said it and God forbid, I wrote it just for a laugh since I see too much seriousness on this forum.
You can say "Yes but survs have seen nerfs to important perks", well, the killer? Devs destroyed one slowdown after another without destroying anything on the surv side for gen speed. They destroyed DH after 6 years, the nerf to COH is not too much, maybe exaggerated but since people healed in two seconds it's not completely excessive, then what's up... Iron will? Very occasional perk in my opinion, broken since it canceled stridor without canceling itself (and in my opinion two perks that are literally opposite of each other should cancel each other instead of being like Iron will > Stridor). Am I forgetting something?
Now, let's list all the killer perks nerfed in just over a year's time: ruin, pop, eruption, Overcharge, Call of Brine, corrupt, pain resonance and thana (I hope to have listed all of them). There is a slight difference, but a slight one. Oh, and have devs nerfed Prove, Hyperfocus (not necessary, but to bring back the theme of gen speed), bnp and toolboxes? Mh, no, they didn't. So, let's be honest, there is a HUGE difference
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One year? The DH has been meta for 6 years. Killer perks struggle to survive 2 months without getting killed by devs. If the devs figured out that in an asymmetric you can't nerf one side without nerfing something with the same soul on the other side, then the game will be balanced. Nerf eruption? Ok, nerf bnp, pt, toolboxes. Nope, nerf eruption, nerf pop, nerf all slowdowns but don't nerf the gen speed stuff. it is so simple to understand that by doing this they unbalance the game, considering that a surv stuff can be carried up to 4 times.
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There's no way you genuinely think that the game is more Survivor-sided now than in 2018.
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I'm really glad you wrote this, because i've been having this same problem lately. I have to try so hard for a 1k at this point. Whereas I spent months 3/4k'ing every match. If I wanna "win" now, I have to play gross..and I hate it..it's not fun. I've actually just been playing a lot of survivor instead..sadly...but playing killer is too stressful right now.
Sometimes you can get a good group of survs and it's a fun game, but most of the time they're running around BMing and sabo'ing and head on'ing and just all kinds of things that I as killer, find to be stressful. Meanwhile, by the time i've caught one..three gens have popped. Good times.
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The game and the playerbase isn’t worth you stressing yourself out. Your mental health is more important, stick with survivor or play Killer sporadically.
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It's not just you. It's happening to me every other game. If I have less then 3 hooks by the time there down to 1 gen I just DC now. Face camping at endgame is not fun and its the only play left at that point.
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DBD the only game where someone says "don't play to win." So you're supposed to play to lose right? That's a lot of fun.
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No, you're just not supposed to play hard and then complain when other people play hard.
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“Sweat for thee but not for me.”
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People who suggest killers to not try so hard to win are people who play both side.
No one here telling you that you have to let survivors escape on purpose. They suggest you to not try so hard for 4K then reach to MMR where you should not be.
Whatever MMR youre in. You will get only 60% killrate average as Devs intent. Your and my MMR may be difference. Only for my games survivors dont try hard and usually meme around. There is also no reason to try hard against them.
Survivors have equal right to have escape chance just as killers have chance to get kills
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I did that last time as killer. Survivors bullied 3 matches straight. I started tunneling accordingly, and perimeter camping when needed. Actually got a GG from the survivors.
Survivors understand VERY well that at some point a killer has to eliminate someone by the time 3 gens are done. The only way to do that is to engage a chase with each survivor early to see who the weak links are. Eliminate poor runners that sit on gens because they’re poor at chases.
I use to complain about camping/tunneling when I only played Survivor. I started playing Killer consistently around Demo release. Then I began to understand WHY those methods must be done sometimes. Needless to say killers who face camp/tunnel before the first gen is done is something to complain about.
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Yeah sure. But they are tunneling, camping and slugging regularly, so they really want to win every match.
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The claim "all time low" is pretty strong. Where are you obtaining that information? At least on Steam, the game is averaging just shy of 50k players. That should be plenty for matchmaking to find good matches.
I have said in the past and will continue to say that the matchmaking system simply doesn't work right, regardless of the size of the player pool. You could give DBD a million players and it would still create terrible matchups left and right.
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People are far too black and white when it comes to dbd. A Clown main may feel the need to tunnel in order to secure a 2k vs worse opponents even though the player behind the clown could be consider a great killer in terms of base killer mind games and macro gameplay.
unfortunately for both sides majority of killers are not too skill expressive for either side. It doesn't matter how well you play for both sides when the killer in question doesn't have the capability or skill expression to act on their knowledge. Survivors looping a c tier killer for at least a minute(at least at the start of the match) should be expected.
These killers are in limbo balance wise because they really aren't great, but they can't be meaningfully buffed due to the nature of their kit and how awful it would be to face an A tier version of: Clown, Trickster, Doctor and quite a few others.
The Biggest problem with the community(not the game) is that killer players want to knowingly play bad killers and survivor players want to go against a chase oriented killer who will neither walk over them or get walked over by the survivors themselves. The aforementioned survivor players don't realize that its just far too easy to loop the basic chase killers on most maps and simply don't have the mindset or skill to go against the chase killers strong enough to give them the challenge they supposedly want. But say you are a good team who runs into a good blight, what happens if that blight is running the strongest 4 perks with c33 and green speed? That skillful chase that so many are after doesn't really happen anymore even though the killer is more than capable of it. It takes a lot of factors to add up to a balanced game with a chase oriented killer who happens to not tunnel or camp and survivors who also want the chase more than anything but also want the escape.
It really comes down to mmr and how it doesn't factor in varying builds into the equation. I can run shadowborn only one game and the go alch-ring/green-speed the next with my mmr barely changing and it barely affecting my mmr after that win. Same thing with survivors. Too much variation just in the pre-game lobby. Then you get into game and it happens to be GoP with the most disgusting connected loop around the entire map or old shelter with 7 pallets and 2 short-walls.
Far too much variation for both sides in regards to perks, killers, map, add-ons, items, skill and the actual intentions and wants the players go into game thinking about.
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Lol in 2018 I will have lost 3 games in the whole year (I'm exaggerating, I lost some of course, but at least I won almost all of them). And it's not that I played 2 hours a day, when I went to school I played 4/5 hours, during the weekend from 8 to 10 hours on average.
In one day I lost I don't know, two games? Usually I didn't even commit and destroyed anyone even without perks or with bad builds (to make you understand the old ruin I unlocked it just before it was reworked, because I didn't feel the need). With old Billy in many games people quit after seeing how straight I pulled the chainsaw without ever taking it off, without even starting a chase. 2018/2019 was the golden age of dbd, and trust me you are one of the few who disagree.
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So you think that killers can only win if they camp&tunnel?
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I think you have a point here. Even if M1 killers can be looped, there comes a point where they can just Bloodlust you, which removes the ability to outplay them. And most of the time it's not like those killers can miss their attack (not referring to console players who can be spun).
Killers who are skill intensive, like Whesker, Huntress, Blight etc. can be fun to play against. Nurse too. But if the bring their broken add ons, their weaknesses pretty much disappear and effectively their counterplay.
I do think even old killers, should have more skill baked into their kits, if they received a rework that would be good for the game.
The other issue I see with killers who have skill involved is that you can still play them as M1 killers. Obviously I don't wanna go against Wesker who will walk me down to M1 because he's too scared to use his power and he can get away with that play. I'd prefer it if they had to rely a lot more on their power than their M1, because it's their M2 that can be outplayed after all. And it's definitely not the same for all skill levels. I usually notice this with people who just got into their character or they're average. I'm of the idea that they should not be reliably getting kills that way. Those killers can have of the highest highs, their skill floor should be a tiny bit higher imo.
I know people like to say Nurse is hardest, but I do find that she can be extremely forgiving. I'm of course not the best at chases, but I try. Even if I've run the Nurse for a long time, this mistake of her of chasing the same survivor for a long time, is erased because she can just blink to any other gen/survivor. For other killers this time wasted is a lot more punishing, but not for the Nurse.
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Holy rose-tinted glasses.
I actually just straight up do not believe you played back then. There's no way you think it was more balanced and have actually played it
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What is so hard to understand what I said you're playing for kills you're playing to win YOU SHOULD GO Against OTHERS THAT ARE PLAYING TO WIN!
"But if that's how you want to play by all means go right ahead"
If you don't want to play against others that are playing to win STOP CAMPING AND TUNNELING it's not that hard to understand.
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What are you abouting? Killer is the easiest it has been since this game was released.
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Scroll thought the posts again buddy, I already said you don't need to camp and tunnel to get kills.
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I know its hard to understand.
But if you and survivors have equal skill. Except you try hard and survivors dont, you should win. Because survivors didnt try to win.
Then your MMR is increased and play either against:
- TeamA: greater than you but dont try hard.
- TeamB: equal to your skill and equal to your try hard (so they are just like you, not great but try hard to win)
You actually have better chance against teamA. It harder to down them, but quad slowdown and tunneling will carry you when teamA use meme build. Against teamB will give you a harder time.
If you play against teamA (whos better but not try hard) and win the match. You may play against a team that as good as A, but TRY HARD.
There is no way you can win against a team that try as hard as you but better than you. This is when you struggle to get a hook, fall apart, frustrated.
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What you're saying is to play worse intentionally so you lose thus deranking down to worse survivors and ruining their day by pitting them against a killer that isn't on their level.
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No I'm saying play fair.
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Just cause you dislike something doesn't mean it isn't fair. It's part of the game.
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https://steamcharts.com/app/381210
29.9k average players right now, which is the lowest recorded in the last 3 years
Is it enough players for good matchmaking? I don't think so. What matters for OP is the number of players of their skill level, not the number of DBD players total. But, these ~30k players have been basically playing at all times for the last 3 years, regardless of balance changes and events, so they are unlikely to be casual players.
As a result, DBD players most likely find matches quickly, but these matches feel way harder - on both sides - than say, in June.
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I just kill by any means necessary. And I also equally get stomped. I'm having fun either way.
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Am I writing in alienese or something?
If you want to camp go right ahead I'm not stopping you, OP or anyone else from doing so.
Yes you are right I dislike camping. I said what I had to say I'm tired of going around in circles.
I'm out, I'm done
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Steam isn't the only platform this game is on. There's also Epic Games (where I play) and console. So the numbers are definitely higher.
Let's not forget that 3 years ago, people were forced to stay at home cause of the pandemic, so number of players/subscribers got inflated. Every online service has bled subscribers after people returned to pre-pandemic lifestyles.
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Its impossible for people to distinguish between playing fair and play to lose intentional.
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