lets discuss dbd game problem fixes are usually punishments for killers
Comments
-
then everyone started using Prove Thyself
At the expense of what?
If Prove Thyself came up, something else had to go. So survivors would lose out in another area, maybe becoming weaker in chase, having less intel, healing slower... Prove Thyself didn't take up a new, empty perk slot.
4 -
Funny how people are acting like 10 seconds on a gen isn’t a big deal but are now freaking out because scavenger can save you 10 seconds on a gen…
4 -
I repeat, 6.1.0 killed the existing slowdown meta.
Of course there emerged a new meta, because there will always be something meta. But the slowdown meta after 6.1.0 wasn´t really a healty one. I know, this is beating a dead horse, but to me the healthiest slowdown meta was Undying Ruin. Which is so long gone, that people probably don´t remember how little camping&tunneling the game had then compared to now.
Also, i never said that slowdown is dead. I said it was nuked.
0 -
because BHVR has tried in the past to incentivize killers to try other tactics besides tunnel, camp and slug. The problem is, trying to incentivize someone against those doesn’t work because they’re the easiest, lowest skill required and efficient tactics available to killers. Also they don’t require a killer to run any special perks or add-ons to work. Why would someone bring use a perk slot to incentivize them to not go for the easiest and fastest kill?
Yes there are lots of killers who play this game for the fun and the actual challenge it offers, but there are also people who don’t want any challenge in their gameplay. They just want easy wins, stats, BP etc. No matter how much you try to incentivize them away from those tactics, there’s a portion of killer players who won’t bother with that because “Yeah but this is fast and efficient and I get 3/4K easier this way.”
People who tunnel camp and slug are always gonna tunnel camp and slug no matter what other tactics you give them. That’s just the reality of this game. Therefore all they can do aside from outright banning those styles of gameplay (which they said they won’t do) is offer survivors better tools to combat them, and not have the match ruined for them instantly when they’re being tunneled and camped at 5 gens. I appreciate that BHVR is trying with this anti-camping idea. I’m not sure how well it’s going to work because there always seems to be an exploit or workaround found in this game but if it does work, I’d hope they would do something similar to seriously help with tunneling next.
2 -
Oh yeah, Eruption was so loved by everyone...
We went from a kick and passive regression meta to a just kick meta. No one is searching totems now and (smart) survivors just paused repairing for a second when the hook animation started. So efficient
0 -
-"So 36% in four hooks, or 33% and way higher pressure in three hooks. Swing and a miss."
The alternative is I hook one person three times in a row every game because 3x hooks is -25% so it has to be better than 8% per hook.
0 -
It's only -25% if the killer is AFK, otherwise you will never have four survivors on gens at the same time, the max will be 3. Which gets reduced to 2 if you tunnel one out and then target the next, so that's -33%.
So yeah, 36% in four hooks, or 33% in three, with an easier time pressuring once you hit those three. Even though you are suggesting a crippling 36% slow, it still doesn't compete with tunnelling. This is why the 'carrot' doesn't work. Tunnelling is way too powerful, so that 'carrot' would need to basically fundamentally break the game in order to overshadow it enough to wean people off of tunnelling.
2 -
Do you even play killer? I would stop tunneling with such a massive slow down - at least for the first hook. If they weakened some of the tiles to make chases a little more difficult to loop without using resources then it would have a huge impact on the game.
0 -
Even with that busted slowdown, you'd still tunnel and would still want Survivors nerfed in addition to that.
Yikes.
3 -
Hey, if the game slowed down and chases were quicker then you wouldn't need to tunnel because you'd get a 4k easier then if you tunneled.
Now that would be a carrot solution! Win/win for everyone!
3 -
scavenger is saving more than 10 seconds on a gen...i would refer you to the otz video he did on scavenger even missing skill checks he was getting between 19 and 24 seconds saved per gen and scavenger was feeding into itself with no loss of time like built to last does
1 -
that was another case of ruin/undying supposedly being op but as soon as boons became viable (old circle of healing) then most survivors didnt see finding totems as opressive and memorized totem spawns ^_^
1 -
There are types of gameplay that BHVR doesn't want to happen. You can agree or disagree on whether it will make the game better or worse, but the best course of action if you don't want something to happen is to just make it impossible. It's not a balance question, which is what most people are discussing in this thread, it's a game design question.
Facecamping is just a bad game, it's not fun for the person on the hook, nor fun for the survivors just sitting on gens. Killers will say, rightly in my opinion, that it's not their job to care about survivors fun, however it's definitely BHVR's. So if you don't want something to ever happen, just make it impossible.
For survivor sided things that never should have happened you have to go back farther in the game's history because they got fixed quicker: being able to sabotage all the hooks, infinites, instant blinds, hatch mechanics, etc.
2 -
It's like people don't understand gen regression/slowdown gets more value because gens take longer to do... which means more time for it to be effective.
That's why people are bringing objective based perks, to ease how oppressive slowdown can be without an answer.
If you want gen rushing to be addressed slowdown AND speed up would need to go.
0 -
You'd stop tunnelling until you lose a match again, and then you'd be right back here demanding more killer buffs and survivor nerfs and promising that you'll 'totally stop tunnelling, guys, trust!'.
3 -
Tunneling is the strategy right now.
What do you get if you don't tunnel? One hook on multiple people gives you nothing. Adding a base kit mechanic to change that would influence killers to do something else.
But with the same thought in mind Survivors literally have nothing to do but tunnel generators. It would almost make sense if we just went ahead and gave killers NOED base kit. That would force survivors to break all the totems so they couldn't just gen rush in 3-4 minutes and then be safe b/c they brought adrenaline.
1 -
6s with 2 people and 9s with 3 people on the gen.
If they remove BP bonus from the perk, we would barely see it used. I know I wouldnt use it without BP
0 -
What do you get if you don't tunnel? One hook on multiple people gives you nothing. Adding a base kit mechanic to change that would influence killers to do something else.
The problem is that that base kit mechanic would need to be MORE oppressive than tunnelling in order to wean killers off of it. You yourself already suggested a whopping, agonising THIRTY-SIX percent repair speed slow, and it still would not even be enough! Both mathematically (In which I made a mistake, so the actual numbers make the comparison even worse), and by your own admission!
You're correct that tunnelling is the strategy right now. But we're not fixing that with 'more carrots'. You would keep tunnelling. You'd keep tunnelling with an average kill rate of 70%. You'd keep tunnelling with an average kill rate of 80%.
Tunnelling needs the stick, not the carrot.
But with the same thought in mind Survivors literally have nothing to do but tunnel generators. It would almost make sense if we just went ahead and gave killers NOED base kit. That would force survivors to break all the totems so they couldn't just gen rush in 3-4 minutes and then be safe b/c they brought adrenaline.
You're the only person who believes in 'gen tunnelling', and your definition of genrushing includes 'using a perk' and 'doing a gen'. Your perspective is a bit off.
3 -
Exactly!
0 -
-"You're the only person who believes in 'gen tunnelling', and your definition of genrushing includes 'using a perk' and 'doing a gen'. Your perspective is a bit off."
That's just not true; what you have said just now is not at all what I suggested previously. Gen rushing is a posture stance that you can easily recognize when you see it. You kick a generator and before you even have a chance to leave someone else has touched the generator again. It's an attitude where survivors are on the generators literally non stop.
Tunneling is a problem when both sides do it. Survivors tunnel gens so killers tunnel out survivors. We go back to the old problem that survivors don't really have a main objective other than the generators. It's a shame that in ~7 years of development we couldn't find one.
0 -
Tapping a gen is now also genrushing, sweet lord.
It's like every third post from you has a solid 75% chance of adding something new to your list of things that you qualify as 'genrushing'.
2 -
A lot of commenters are falling for the 'fallacy fallacy': the fact that the examples of 'carrots' for Killers OP gives are almost all horrible ideas does not invalidate the point that the general resolution of problems with some playstyles has been to nerf and not to buff. About 60% of the perks in DBD are either so weak as to be useless or are just fundamentally badly designed. There's only ever about 6 perks on either side that are actually reliably useful. Several Killers have an even worse situation with their add-ons, further restricting their options (Pyramid Head and Bubba in particular have several addons that have been bugged and nonfunctional for a long time now, while several other Killers don't have a functional power without specific addons). Rather than expanding the possible pool of options both Killers and Survivors have, to promote a diversity of builds and strategies, the attempts at balance resolution in the past year or so have been to selectively nerf the few meta perks and addons that remain.
I'm so sick of seeing 4 Windows/Lithe/Prove/Adrenaline combos in the endgame screen, because two of them are probably too strong and the other 2 are just among of the only other perks worth running for Survivors. Because what else are you going to run, Corrective Action? Technician? Red Herring? I for one as a Killer main would like to be able to use perks other than Jolt, Corrupt, Deadlock, Pain Res, No Way Out, Lethal, STBFL and Distortion, but if I don't, then gens fly by, I can't find Survivors in time on the huge, cluttered maps BHVR insists on pumping out and I get nothing in return for most other perks when at best they do barely anything and at worst they buff the opposition (Predator, Dying Light). At least in the gen-kick meta I had some more options, unhealthy as they were. And if BHVR decides to nerf the last good slowdown perks because they're being used too much while introducing Scavenger then I might just give up. And you know what the easiest response to all that is as a player? Only play the strongest Killers with the strongest addons and tunnel to control the game more easily, a further narrowing of what's viable to the detriment of everyone's enjoyment.
I'm hoping that we'll see more frequent passes over the useless perks to either buff them into relevance or fundamentally rework them so there is a compelling reason to run them. Alternatively, the habit of making things 'basekit' for Survivors might be extended further, so the 'necessary' perks and addons could become default and allow for more niche meme perks to exist, though I don't like the idea of unnecessary power creep.
0 -
Original undying was busted, but that's beside the point because this was said by no one ever post-og undying nerf and the ONLY reason ruin was nerfed in 6.1 was strictly due to usage rates to force change the meta.
3 -
Anytime an incentive is discussed, there are people running calcs on how efficient following the incentive would be rather than, say, tunneling or camping.
Everytime, these people arrive at the conclusion that permanent -1 player is much more interesting than any incentive that could feasably be implemented while keeping all levels of mmr into account.
If there was a carrot not to tunnel, anyone who wishes to play efficiently (and god knows how many "fun = winning and nothing else" we have in this community) would still tunnel.
Hence the stick.
4 -
If they reverted the changes it would feel no different for me playing killer. Half the games are sheit either way and go to fast before I can try anything. Before and after they added the 10 seconds the games feel exactly the same to me when I'm against a team that prioritizes gens over everything else.
0 -
Well, games would be at least 50 seconds shorter, so there is that.
0 -
yup 6 months that lasted and dead hard lasted how long? how about decisive strike/unbreakable combo?
0 -
isnt it more like camping in reality? especially with two people and one leads the killer on the chase the other survivor is technically proximity camping the gen
0 -
which is why this game needs a casual and ranked mode
0 -
I'm sure the generator will be very upset that it's not allowed to leave its spot.
1 -
honestly a mode that doesn't allow certain add ons I'd be there so quickly
0 -
So does this mean you want them to not change things for 6 years? It did take them a long time to deal with DH and other things, sure, but is them dealing with things sooner than they previously have like they have been trying to do.. not good? I don't really know how to read this other than that.
In either case this also doesn't have anything to do with what I said or what I replied to from you.
0
