Killers need to be compensated for camping nerf
Camping is an important strategy for killers to secure kills and commonly used on some killers such as Bubba. I suspect almost no one will play Bubba after the camping nerf. Camping is effectively dead with the nerf and killers need to be compensated for this as it's a large nerf.
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You can do completely fine as bubba wihtout camping.
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Yes but it's still a very large nerf. Camping allowed Bubba to guarantee kills.
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You should earn your Kills and not cheese them by camping with an instadown ability. You can still secure your kills in endgame, but otherwise please PLAY THE GAME instead of reving your chainsaw infront of a hooked survivor.
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You will literally be able to still play that way, heck they'll just be easier to tunnel likely because if they unhook themselves who is going to protect them???? Stop over reacting and do some chasing for once.
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I don't want to be rude but your comment describes exactly why we need this change. It's been a lot of frustration for far too long. You just can't call "camping" a mechanic or even playing the game for that matter. It locks a survivor out of the game and it takes away any work the killer would have to do for their kills as all they have to do is sit quiet in front of a hook - disgusting in my opinion.
Calling it a nerf is also wrong. It's an abuse prevention mechanic. If you played the game without abusing camping before you won't see a difference. If you did, well... you won't any longer. 🤷
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There are situations where camping is obviously superior. The most common one is if the survivor is close to death. If a survivor is 30 seconds from death, there's no point chasing another survivor, which will likely take more than 30 seconds. Camping in this situation guarantees a death and potential additional down while chasing another survivor is only a down after a long chase. Also, the camping nerf isn't exclusive to Bubba. It affects all killers.
Bubba can still play that way but it's a very large nerf. These are the nerfs:
- No other survivor will come to rescue. This means gens will go much faster and Bubba can't get a free down on another survivor
- It isn't a buff. The survivor will always wait until the last second before the next hook stage before they unhook themselves. This means that the camper won't save any time and will lose far more time from having to chase again. In the best case scenario where Bubba can down them again with 1 chainsaw, it's another 20-25 seconds wasted from chasing and hooking again. Secondly, survivors can't protect the unhooked surivor against a Bubba since they will be already downed or running into a Chainsaw.
- Depending on if there are nearby pallets and windows, Bubba may not get the down from a single Chainsaw and in that case, it becomes a regular chase.
Nope. It's a strategy. If the devs really thought it was abuse, they would have also prevented it in EGC too. The fact that they went out of their way to disable the anti-camping in EGC means that they acknowledge it as a legitimate strategy. Camping is a strong strategy in some situations and for some killers. If they are nerfing camping, killers need to be compensated for it.
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There is no counterplay in this at all if the survivors do everything right.
It's often said: don't participate in the three-minute chase. But what if each victim stretches the chase for 3 minutes, resets 30 seconds after the chase is interrupted, and continues to genrush? (This is not the worst, but quite a common 1/3 situation on my MMR.)
Like, how else do I distract the survivors from the repair? Somehow catch one and camp. If they want to unhook, they'll either have to trade, which ends up at 1k, or get a few hits, which will allow me to build up the pressure.
And what should I do now?
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" If a survivor is 30 seconds from death, there's no point chasing another survivor"
Thats exactly the reason why they do this change my friend, you're just proving why the change necessary.
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My post isn't arguing against the change though. I'm saying that killers need a buff to offset the nerf if it does come through.
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Based on what we know so far, it looks like the legitimate form of camping - IE, patrolling around near-ish the hook and actually taking chase with the first survivor you see - should be largely unaffected. This new system should, on paper, only affect you if you're stubbornly standing by the hook and refusing to take chase away from it, a la the infamous facecamping Bubba scenario.
And if you are in that scenario, good, you should be punished. You should play the game and employ the actual strategies available to the killer, not just stand in one place and wait for the timer to go down.
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Thats what people don't get sadly.
Just because they could "abuse" a bad game mechanic to secure kills that didnt require skill or even interacting with the game at all doesnt mean they need to be compensated for it when it gets patched out. Other people do fine without it already.
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If the devs gave a buff to offset the camping nerf, that would completely defeat the purpose of the camping nerf. The devs don't need to compensate for it, that's up to you to do. And that's as easy as chasing another survivor.
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Oh no killers now actually need to play the game now instead of depending on cheese to get at least a 2k but at the same time here killers should get some sort of other buffs like base kit deerstalker and whispers and just remove those perks all together
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3 survivors can complete all generators in 2 minutes while the minimum chase time without pallets and windows is 50 seconds,
Yes, given that the survivors can fix the generators faster than waiting in line, camping is definitely a problem.
By the way, how many anti-camping perks are in your build?
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If you want to stop survivors from repairing generators faster, surely you'd be doing the opposite of camping? You'd need to be going and interrupting them to prevent their repairs, using whatever perks you've got or just stalling with basekit slowdown.
I'm not denying that gen speeds can be a problem with the right tools, but that problem and camping aren't really linked.
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How is that a nerf? lmao
No other survivor will come to rescue. This means gens will go much faster and Bubba can't get a free down on another survivor
It isn't a buff. The survivor will always wait until the last second before the next hook stage before they unhook themselves. This means that the camper won't save any time and will lose far more time from having to chase again. In the best case scenario where Bubba can down them again with 1 chainsaw, it's another 20-25 seconds wasted from chasing and hooking again. Secondly, survivors can't protect the unhooked surivor against a Bubba since they will be already downed or running into a Chainsaw.
Depending on if there are nearby pallets and windows, Bubba may not get the down from a single Chainsaw and in that case, it becomes a regular chase.
Boy, if you don't want that to happen just get away from the hook.
Why people want compensation for stop doing a cheap mechanic and actually start playing the game?
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"Camping is an important strategy for killers to secure kills"
Nothing should be guaranteed in DBD.
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Well I run DM a lot so it’s harder to get grabbed when saving plus one of the best ways to not get camped is to not get downed in the first place I know that’s easier said than don’t but that’s why having efficient heal without others will always be strong like with self care for example on its own it’s bad but with a build it can be great
also doesn’t it take 2 mins alone for 1 survivor to complete a gen alone so how does that wotk
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All the guilty pleasure Bubba mains are really coming out after this upcoming change huh
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You shouldn't be able to "guarantee kills" tho? At least not till endgame
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Honestly you just sound butthurt that you can't kick a player out 3 minute into the game anymore lmao
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Honestly. I think most Bubbas would get more than two kills if they weren't camping anyway. I see a lot of Bubba players camping even though about 60% of the pallets are gone. Most would apply a much greater pressure if they actually would start to take use out of the already prepared map.
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Lol. I can play Bubba and by playing normally can guarantee a 3-4K unless a comp. SWF. Just get better at the game and actually learn to loop and mind game. Bubba is not the strongest but def. not the worst killer.
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As a Bubba player that does not Camp, I can confirm, he is plenty strong without needing to Camp.
Yes you will have to learn to play Bubba without FaceCamping, which is easy.
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People are seriously out there acting like camping is some sort of crime and not a strategy.
They say things like "this change is an abuse prevention system" and don't want to call it for what it is... a major nerf to all killers accross the board.
Meanwhile when they use their newly acquired "built-in endurance from unhook" to body block for their healthy rescuer... then immediatly end up on the hook again... they cry "foul play! Killer is tunneling, it's unfair!"
Yeah no, I disagree. Let the healthy survivor do the body block or die.
All those freebies given to survivors lately only makes the game worst in every possible way.
These survivors need to learn how to loop, not "get out of jail free" cards.
If you end up on a hook... look in the mirror, it means you messed up somewhere.
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these people who are complaining about this "anti-camping" mechanic, only play killer and cry when the survivors escape.
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Camping is a strategy. As I said, camping is the best choice in some situations and for some killers.
Standing still and waiting for the timer to go down. Sounds like doing gens?
False. The camping changes were implemented because it wasn't fun for survivors and caused "frustration". The change was made to improve enjoyment for survivors and was not a balance change. Therefore, any changes to the games balance must be accounted for. See https://deadbydaylight.com/news/anniversary-gameplay-updates.
If you've read that comment, it clearly explains why it's a nerf. Though, I'll repeat myself. There are many situations where camping is better but the most common situation is camping a survivor that is nearly dead. Between camping for 30 seconds to kill a survivor and potentially get an additional down compared to chasing another survivor, which can take 30-60 seconds for a down, the first option is vastly superior. The camping changes prevents the vastly stronger first option and therefore, is a nerf.
I agree that there should be no guarantees. When survivors walk through the exit gates, there should be a small chance that they get teleported onto a hook so they aren't guaranteed an escape. /s
If I was, I would be arguing to cancel the camping changes. My post is neither for or against the change. I am just saying if killers get nerfed due to it, a buff is needed to offset it.
Ever heard of https://www.twitch.tv/sethgameon? This guy has over 6k overs on Bubba, is one of the top Bubba players in the world, and recently attempted a 50 win streak on Bubba. He never camps. After several weeks, he gave up because it was impossible.
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50 win streak on anything but an S-tier killer isn’t realistic, lol.
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But you said you can guarantee 3-4k unless you face comp swf?
Also, you don't need S tier killers to get 50 win streaks. I have recent 50+ winstreaks on Hag, Myers, and Plague. OnePumpWillie has 100+ win streaks on Sadako, Skull Merchant, Spirit, and Knight.
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Yeah, a "strategy" that involves not playing the game, going afk while the remaining survivors finish the gens, and then they cry about gen rushing and not being able to get kills. Killer logic is truly baffling...
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Anything that reduces kill rate is good, you don't need to ask for buff because statistics will tell them (unless BHVR suddenly thinks 40% is what kill rates should be)
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Which was unfair. You shouldn't be able to just camp someone and guarantee they die with nothing the survivors can do.
What if a survivor could just sit on a gen all game with nothing you could do to stop it? No chasing, no downing, they just stay on it forever. Not fair.
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Yes camping is a strategy. But one that is unfun for the survivor, and is used by standing still and doing nothing. Its boring for both sides, and this is a game after all so it should be fun. It's only ever truly necessary in endgame, at which point the new system deactivates entirely. No killer relies solely on camping to get kills, all being able to consistently rack up hooks throughout the game and eventually kill. Bubba is effective out of camping because of his instadown and speed boost, hes probably low B-tier. Not the best, but an honorable spot to be in. Not even trapper relies on camping, even though basement trapper is phenomenal.
Yeah, both gens and camping involve waiting for the timer to go down. The difference there is that you, as the killer, can patrol the gens and keep survivors off of them via hooks etc. A survivor cant just run up and instantly stop you camping, meanwhile a killer can do that to someone repairing. A survivor going to save someone being camped is going to get hooked themselves if the killer isnt dumb, trading themselves for the hookee. Normally this is done when one stage is about to end, so that the hook is spread between the two instead of one person being dead/deathook.
Except against a bubba, you cant trade. If you go for the save, you will go down despite your health state or skill level. It was so broken that it was a better strat to just leave the hooked guy to die and do gens. Which of course, isnt fun for the hooked guy at all. Why should he be guaranteed to die because he lost one chase? There are 3 hook stages, so it should take around 3 chases in an evenly matched, fun and fair game. But a bubba only needs to win one chase, and he gets a kill. If he gets another down he gets another kill. It doesnt matter if all 3 survivors rush the hook, if you are literally the best dbd player or if the bubba has 2 hours on the game. If he knows he can just stand there, that survivor is dead no matter what. Which isnt fun or fair gameplay. A camping bubba is a guaranteed kill.
On other killers yeah you can trade, but why should someone just standing there guarantee multiple hooks? Typically, a hook requires some sort of skillful play in chase that leads into a down. And while camping may be a smart strategy to use, that doesnt make it skillful. Its as skilled as doing generators, like you said. Therefore it shouldnt be so effective at securing kills as actual skilled plays.
Camping may not be guaranteed but its very boring and unskilled on the killer end, while being boring and uncounterable on the survivor end. The things a survivor can do against a regular m1 camper are:
- Trade (let yourself get hooked to prolong the time the killers not patrolling)
- Do nothing and go do gens (let someone die so the rest can get out)
- rush the hook with multiple teammates, one taking a hit and the other unhooking. (have multiple people off of generators to deal with one hook, and have the coordination thats impossible in soloQ outside of endgame. In endgame its just human nature to rush the hook ig)
- bring reassurance to enhance option 2.
- Bring deliverance so your trade doesnt also need to be traded out, ending the camp cycle.
These solutions are all either bring a specific perk, let someone die, or purposefully get hooked to prevent the death. Something should never require bringing a perk to counter, letting someone die isnt fun so it shouldnt be optimal in any scenario, and trading a camper is unfun and needs you to also be traded out. Even in a trade chain, eventually someone is gonna die if nobodies got deliverance or smth of the sort. Essentially a longer version of option 2, with the hope the killer will either get bored and leave or make a mistake.
None of this applies to instadown killers, or killers exceptional at shredding through health states. Trickers a pretty good camper because of how good he is at tearing through health, huntress as well. Not to mention how good huntress, artist, slinger, bubba, and many more are at defending the basement.
Camping is boring and unskilled for both sides while promoting unfun gameplay with few counters, all of which are either unreasonable or unfun. As a game designed to be fun, camping should not be optimal in most scenarios and should instead be a last ditch effort to secure a kill. Thats what this change does; if you are chasing regularly most of the game, hooks will be spread pretty well. In endgame, you can pretty easily camp someone to secure one last kill. And since the new anti-camp basekit doesnt work after all the gens are done, that method of play still works just as well. The only real issue I could see this being is the range. 16 meters seems too much, maybe 8 or 10. But outside of that this is a positive and welcome addition to dbd.
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30% of my matches are SWF.
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Idk why killers think they need to be compensated for everything.. survivors get nerfed all the time with no compensation
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They've even got compensation for healing nerf, I don't get what you are talking about.
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you can give another killer a try if you find bubba weak enough to the point you can win as him only if you face camp. idk if that's even a valid argument, killers shouldn't be balanced around their ability to face camp.
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On killers like Bubba who camp because of their prowess at getting multiple hits in very quickly, the anti-camping changes will likely achieve little to nothing. You can hit through BT and re-down them very quickly if they unhook themselves in front of you.
What sort of compensation do you even want for them trying to curb facecamping?
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I don't understand why survivors feels like they can dictate how others should play based on what is fun TO THEMSELVES.
I don't know what to say other than you know, learn to loop and don't get hooked.
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People need to stop usng "it's not fun" as a counter-argument. BHVR can remove camping while buffing killer somewhere else so that the "unfun" camping is gone while the power level of killers remain the same.
It's not guaranteed that they die. If there's a pallet or window nearby or Bubba enters Tantrum, they have a chance to escape. Also, Reassurance is already a major counter to camping. If they use it, it's almost always necessary to immediately stop camping to avoid losing the game.
Nah. I am asking for a compensation buff in this case because I think BHVR made this change as a quality of life change and didnt consider the impact on kill rates.
You know why you can't beat them? It's because you don't camp. It's necessary to play as dirty as possible to beat strong SWFs. This is why I consider the camping changes a nerf that needs to be compensated for.
Also being unable to get a 50 win streak due to swfs is a poor excuse. OnePumpWillie and I also get swfs during our streaks and still beat them fine.
Blast Mine
Reverted 24 second heal time to 16 second.
Mettle of Man
When Decisive Strike was nerfed, Borrowed Time was made base kit.
I didn't say I couldn't win on Bubba without face camping. I'm just saying that it's a massive nerf to Bubba. I will still beat solos fine but beating strong teams will be difficult. Also, the change affects all killers and not just Bubba. Bubba is just the one that is most affected. Also, Bubba has the 2nd/3rd lowest kill rate in the game at high mmr and shouldn't be nerfed further. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/350586/stats-kill-rate-by-killer-and-mmr-september-2022#latest
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Good Bubba players can secure kills without face-camping. They do it by actually playing the game. You get points for hunting, brutality, and chasing survivors for a reason and not just for getting kills.
If you want a game where you just stay still in one spot to get a kill, go play an FPS game, and play as a sniper. Problem solved.
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The change will have a minimal impact for more experienced players, but it will be a godsend for casual/newer players. Most newer Killer players never leave the hook once they get one down, and there's no way a casual team can save them, nor will they just rush the gens. They will just run in and feed the camper as they don't realise that the hooked survivor is effectively out of the game at that point.
It will teach new Killers to not just stand there smacking Survivors on the hook (seeing as the tutorial system explains almost nothing about the game), which will make matches for casual/newer players much better. It will force new Killer players to learn the game and new Survivors won't be stuck in boring, unfun matches that make them stop playing entirely.
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No, camping is boring and lazy strategy, not to mention that does not work in higher mmr and in swfs especially. Camping also makes killer to be lazy and do not make them to actually play the game - chase, track, pressure.
Just because people do that, does not mean its good in any way.
If we would talking about tunneling then yes, killers should have something in exchange against swfs, since only way to win against coordinated squads (not only swf, but being coordinated in non swf needs much more skills and thus should not be as bad) is to tunnel, but tunneling is unhealthy strategy, so yes, killers should not tunnel but should get something in exchange.
But for camping nerf - no!
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Facecamping killers will be compensated by dropping in MMR until they can win a game by actually playing it.
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In my point of view of this nerf as a killer main, it's good at the same time that is not good, we have a big difference between camping to try turn the game at your favor and camping just because you want the game to be miserable for the others.
For example: you got 3 hooks and the survivors got 3 gens completed, the killer will tunnel or camping someone out to apply more pressure, of course, against a good team can be a double edge blade, but camping to do this will not be possible anymore.
For M1 killers this will be a massive nurf, they are already no good in chases, for M2 killers this nurf don't have to much impact, legion can M2 you and tunnel you out, bubba can chainsaw your BT and haste and go on.
But this nerf can give another chance for survivors that are being camped in the first chase in the first seconds of the match, to have a chance to play the game, instead of get angry and frustrated.
In one hand, camping and tunnel against a good team is the only strategy you have, in the other hand is a miserable gameplay style.
All competitive games change to be more fun and engaging for everyone, that can be not very good way to try to fix this but, is a started of something, like was the nerf on the nurse.
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Camping is very unhealthy for the game, it causes killers sometimes to use it to be toxic and overall slows down the game making it unfun for everyone playing. However I believe the anti-hook system should be turned off when it is in end game because sometimes killers need to camp to get a kill, and sometimes if your smart it can end up with more then one
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Isnt that what devs said in stream? That anti-camping mechanic is disabled during endgame?
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Killers don't need a buff to compensate for losing a tactic that almost always causes them to throw the game. If anything this is a buff to Killers, as the game will be reminding you to stop sucking and actually play the game.
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The fact that it's a strategy is exactly why this kind of change needs to be implemented. No strategy should completely grind the game to a halt, and every strategy should have an answer on the opponent's side. If you fully and wholeheartedly believe it to be a strategy, then you should support it being balanced like it's a strategy.
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Idk I didn’t watch it 💀 but if that is then thank you
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