Camping nerfs won't last long.
At least I don't think so, either they will be changed, or removed or killers will receive buffs, now hear me out, I think the changes look good and are a great addition. However, I think percentages for kills for certain killers such as Bubba who lots of beginners use to camp will plummet as they cannot secure kills, Like I said, this could end up causing a rework for the camping nerfs or it may result in buffs for killers which are in deep need for them, or they could just completely ignore it and let it be.
What do you think?
Comments
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While my opinion might be less useful since i don't play anymore actively, i don't really see a problem with the presented anti-FACE- camping mechanic.
16 meters don't seem that bad and would still allow for proxy camping.
Even bubba can rush in with his chainsaw and down both unhooker and unhooked, just not at point blank range. And even when the unhooker aborts, the bar won't fill up since killer and unhooker will most likely be in chase at that point.
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It wont really change much. The Survivor will still be on that Hook and if the Killer needs to be a bit away, they will still be back quite fast. It will allow an Unhook, but the Survivor will still be tunneled since there is still no real Anti-Tunnel mechanic in this game (aka something which does not resolve around Endurance).
It is not like the Survivor will be unhooked, fully healed and teleported to the next Gen or Exit Gate. They will still be there, the Killer will just have to leave a little bit of distance.
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It'll be exactly like BT was. It'll get complained about until it launches, then suddenly every killer realizes they can actually count to 10.
This is the same thing just with 15m range instead of a timer.
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I think this is something what needs to get tested for a bit to see if there are more pros than cons. A lot of the changes/ perk releases they brought in past look very strong and abusive on paper, but many of these are also things that nobody talks about anymore because in practice things work very differently than many expected.
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The anti camping mechanic is good, but there are few problems. First of all, it's another thing that punish killer for a playstyle. Bhvr doesn't understand that punish things is bad for both sides, they have to give some incentives to the killers to make them leave the hook, otherwise they will stay one meter outside the area.
Second problem is that works through floors, so maybe I'm chasing someone at floor 1, the surv is hooked at ground floor, and he/she can unhook herself.
It's not that hard, bhvr isn't giving any incentives to not tunnel and not camp, instead she's promoting these playstyle by nerfing all gen regressions without nerfing gen speed perks and toolboxes.
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Bubba doesn´t have a overwhelming high kill rate as of now (or like forever). So with his only power (defending a hook) gone... yeah, pretty much.
But then again, some people might still suicide against him, since old habits die hard. So who knows.
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My only problem with the anti-camping mechanic is that it will work through floors, so a killer is punished for patrolling a different floor above/below the hook. But conversely, other survivors being nearby should also slow the timer through floors, which is a whole 'nother problem in itself.
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I worry that this change is going to make some maps suddenly weird or bad for Killer (Midwich in particular), but that at least is something that could be fixed by tweaking numbers and hook spawn logic. If it means that Bubba plummets in the kill rates, then maybe they'll be motivated to fix all the horrible bugs he has and give him some add-ons that actually benefit you to run them. Maybe they'll even buff his chasing potential so he doesn't have to camp. If kill rates overall decrease then maybe they'll look at some more global buffs/changes to Killer like they did last year.
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At the very least it will buy more time. A big problem in solo queue is disorganized players hovering around the hook while trying and failing to unhook against a facecamping killer. Now at least they'll be able to make that unhook in some cases.
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If this playstyle is unfun, boring and not meant to be the normal way to play dbd i say there should be something to avoid this to be used often.
I am not asking that all camping related strategies to be nuked but the most egregious ones like a bubba facecamping the first surv to death should not be allowed to be used consistently.
I dont think any amount of incentives can help if you dont address the problem itself. We have seen this with many things that were not fun for the other side and had to be changed.
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Ok but this mechanic is not for face camping, 16 meters is not face camping. My idea for facecamp Bubba is to have his chainsaw charges decrease if he stands still. You see, no one's going to camp with Bubba anymore if they put stuff like that on.
Then the mechanics have various problems of sorts. It only benefits the survivors, who will obviously abuse it as they did with the unbreakable bk.
The biggest problem is that now the hook area can't be defended anymore, because the hooked survivor can free himself even if the survivors are close and the killer is defending the hook. Also, in maps with two floors the mechanic works even if the killer is upstairs, what the ######### is the point of that? Survivors will intentionally get chased near the hook so they don't have to waste time, they will also use reassurance so the hook bar doesn't procede, and the hooked surv frees himself.
On the one hand you're right, nothing to say, if you don't fix the problem on the one hand incentives don't count... but do you know why they don't count? Because if incentives aren't worth #########, they're not incentives but bullshit. If you give a heavy reward to the killer for choosing mixed hooks, a reward that isn't in bp, you see that the killers will stop tunneling/camping.
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The farther out of the 16m, the slower it builds. How slow, we don't know. But you need to have a slightly bigger range so killers can't just camp outside of "facecamping range". A killer who sits at the 17m+ mark does allow survivors to make trades compared to the killer standing at 8m.
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As I said, this mechanic has several problems. As the devs have described it, it absolutely cannot go live. It will be abused by swfs with reassurance, so that 2 can rush gens and the one on the hook can free himself while one chases near the hook. Also, the fact that it activates even if the surv is on a different floor than the killer is really crap. If it only activates with the Nurse I'd say "Okay, that makes sense" because she's the only killer who goes through walls, but it's silly to activate with everyone.
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But nobody knows how the mechanic will work, how the meter will fill, how the progress will be altered if another survivor is close, etc.
If the meter fills slow enough while the killer is between 10-16mts the survivor will lose another life state or straight up die.
I agree that in two floors map in may be troublesome, but until we see this mechanic properly tested i cant form an opinion out of it.
Also your fix to facecamp bubba does not work. If they lose charges while standing still they would just facecamp while doing circles to the hook or going left and right.😑
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If I understand the dev stream then it doesn’t build at all beyond 16 meters. If a killer is 17 meters away and camps the survivor isn’t receiving progress toward the self-unhook.
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Yes.
Maybe I worded what I typed poorly. But I'm just saying that we don't know how slow the build up is at the farther points up to the 16m limit. The reason the zone needs to be larger than just facecamping range is so that killers can't just stand just outside the facecamping zone not solving the issue.
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True, we still don't know in detail how it will work, but the devs have already given some of the aforementioned details and, as I already said, for now it's yet another function that benefits swfs and punishes the killer for playing.
I misunderstood the facecampbubba fix. I would do this: In an area X meters from the hook, if Bubba isn't chasing a surv, the chainsaw charges drop to zero. I wrote one thing thinking of another, I apologize
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That can’t work because the point isn’t to eliminate camping; the purpose of this change, like with basekit BT that doesn’t really stop tunneling at all and synergizes terribly with other anti-tunnel perks, is to give survivors a small chance at continuing to play the game. If BHVR were serious about anti-camping measures (face or proxy), they’d function as strictly as they do in other assym games.
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Killers are still very capable of camping at 16m+. All this change does it give survivors some room to force trades or the survivor on hook can eventually unhooks themselves.
We're talking about facecamping specifically. Trying to set the zone around 5m for "facecamping" the survivor won't work, because standing 1m away at that point means nothing.
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The only issue I have with it is it working through floors. Now until we get more info (that's if the Devs will even give us precise details) a Killer could be punished for "camping" if they are on another floor within that range while chasing a Survivor. I have seen some hooks spawn within some nasty jungle gyms that a good survivor could loop the killer around or even the Killer Shack with open windows and a pallet.....
Now again we don't don't know how "slow" the timer builds while a survivor is within range and we will have to see but as the Devs have described it now it can be weponized by both Killer and Survivors..... Survivors could force a unhook on Killers that don't camp or a Killer will allow the unhook and just down the Survivor again.
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my only concern 16 meters work through floors. I agree with your concern.
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Its not a bad mechanic but it doesn't actually affect the good campers. Blight, Nurse, Bubba or spirit? Wow they stand 16 meters away and when you get in the hook animation that get a little closer while you're close causing the meter gain to be (assumingly) way slower and you keep backing away until you're forced to save in before 2nd/death hook. Still resulting in a trade which they can still snowball off of.
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While I will be the first to support an end to facecamping, since I don't like it much myself, this is NOT the way to address it. 16 meters is far to wide of a space to have the meter build up. It also should stop completely if the survivor is in range, not slow down, as well as not go through floors.
Its also effectively stops killers from defending an objective, the hooked survivor, similar to how Eruption used to lock out survivors from doing anything. Picture you, as a killer, get two hooks close to one another, without camping a survivor. Should you just leave half the hooked team to look for someone or should you defend your two hooks? With the change, you would no longer have a choice: you HAVE to leave or lose your hooks.
Or imagine if you hook a survivor close to a three-gen or a zone you want to protect. You are now being punished for defending two objectives at once. There are simply too many scenarios where this mechanic unfairly punishes killers for playing DBD or where it can be exploited by survivors.
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I never said it's a good measure, only that I don't think it will be scrapped or excessively complained about (yeah I know, there already have been some doomsday threads about it but only isolated ones).
Of course the meta killer can basically ignore it altogether but adjusting a working Anticamp mechanic to all 31 killer demands a way more detailed and layered individual approach. But I guess this is too much work when I see the measures behaviour has taken for many of year long problems/complaints (*cough* Mori/key pure boring number change solutions *cough* *cough*)
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Saying Bubba’s only power is camping is quite the reach. He’s a good killer without camping and even better when adding perks such as Bamboozle.
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I tried to main Bubba years ago. His kit hasn´t changed since then. Chainsaw can be prevented easier than Billys, he has no curve and his power only excells in hitting several survivors at the same time. Which is why decent players don´t stick together against him.
He´s not a good killer. His kill rate is slightly higher than the Trappers, who has the lowest kill rate. He´s a noob stomper, but that could be said about most killers.
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That drawback kinda feels like a nescesary evil honestly, cause it would allow killers with teleportation abilities to disregard this system entirely if it didn't go through floors. We really don't need another situation where nurse is better than every other killer.
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Maybe they remove bubba chainsaw tantrum that is especially problem for beginners and it would promote more chasing. Even experienced bubbas suffer from it.
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Or change the tantrum to something more useful instead. Like yeah, you hit that wall, but now you can... i don´t know, walk faster without power for a couple seconds? Or would that be to much like Billy?
Bubba is probably dead in the water, when the patch drops. With a good part of the community cheering.
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Was this before or after they buffed him with additional sweeps? I’d be careful judging killers off of kill rates as well, we all know how Pig continually gets nerfed simply because her kill rate is insane. Sadako is also top 3 in kill rate and we all know he weak she is.
I’m not saying Bubbas amazing but he’s for sure in the top half of killers.
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All this stuff is fine and dandy since it seems like the devs really want killers to go for 12 hooks but the game really isn't even nearly balanced enough for that. The only time you ever get a 10+ hook game is when you so obviously outclass the survivors that you shouldn't even be facing them to being with. Don't get me wrong I'm all for the chase but the current time to down/hook compared to the time to smash out gens is so far and away from being fair that it's just stupid and that's not even counting perks and items to speed things up.
But hey, I found other things to do and don't even hardly play this game anymore, I just stick around the forums hoping one day killer won't be absolutely miserable to play and even possibly have a small chance at beating a decent swf.
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No,nerfs to camping will help out a lot and make survivors more playable.
There's counters to looping and generator flying.
No,if you don't like chases or looping or applying pressure and taking the easy way out just use slowdown perks and insidious and STBFL.
These changes will help survivor a lot,and for many it will make it playable again.
These changes will be fun.
There is counterplay to gen rushing,applying pressure is one of them.
Killers should patrol gen for pressure not hooks,applying pressure on gen jockeys is the way to go.
Oh and if you hadn't noticed,I mimicked your very low effort responses to my Tunneling post.
I guess from your complaints you use camping and tunneling a lot,but you try to hide this fact as "worrisome" for new Bubbas.
As if the last thing we want is to allow them to learn the value of Bubba camping.
In the future please avoid my posts,your killer bias radiates like the Sun's UV rays.
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I main survivor.
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My biggest problem about this mechanic is SWF. It is supposed to get disabled in the endgame, but what you will get is 99'd gens to abuse free unhook.
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Just stop playing Killer if it gets too hard after this gets implemented.
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By that logic should survivors just have stopped playing survivor before it got implemented?
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They can too. People can choose not to play Killer or Survivor/this game in general if it’s frustrating or “unfun” for them rather than continue losing in game and using forums/social media to express their frustration.
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