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The current state of tunneling
I would really love a response from a dev on this one. Since they killed the 3-gen meta, a single playstyle has become more prevalent than ever. And it's killing the game. You are going to address face camping, which is great. But when are you going to address tunneling? The base kit bt is not enough, off the record is not enough. Nothing is enough right now in the face of a killer that is brainlessly tunneling a survivor at 5 whole gens. I play both killer and survivor equally I would say and while i am playing killer, especially my main, artist, i manage to get wins without tunneling and i try to do that knowing how frustrating it is to face. On the other hand, as a survivor player i have not escaped a single trial in the last 2 weeks. I swear to god, i have all my trials records from the past 2 weeks, cause i wanted to keep them and see what's going on with tunneling so i can come up with this post. Tunneling is a problem. 40% escape chance was the desired ratio right? Well, during my last 2 weeks i have not escaped once thanks to tunneling. Each and every match, i got yet again against another killer that's set his mind to tunnel from second 1, either me or my teammates, and they even have the builds to support it, so i never get the chance toe scape cause by the time we finish the 1st gen, there's only 3 survivors left. They won't stop tunneling even if you give them downs, they won't stop for anything. They are just tunneling against and again and again. And i am so tired of this. I love the game and it's concept, but i cannot keep playing in the hopes that some day i will finally get to escape. I also want to be able to win some trials and when i lose i wanna know the reason i lost so i can get better. *Right now the reason i lose is because the killer decides to turn their brain off and mindlessly get an easy w by tunneling. And the worst thing? THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING I CAN DO TO STOP IT. Solo queue is already a nightmare and all this tunneling just makes it even worse, cause even if I manage to get a 3gen chase, after I go on the hook and I get off of it I just get tunneled like I never even had a chance. So yeah, that's my rant. Tunneling is the biggest problem in solo queue right now. And I guess my question at the end of the day is: Are the devs gonna do something about it? are they gonna give us a chance to once in a while escape a trial while solo-queueing? or do I just leave the game now and i exempt myself from even more pain and frustration? Cause the actual state of the game and of tunneling is no it. It's just horrible and yet no one seems to be talking about it, so i thought i did.
Answers
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3-genning itself isn’t the problem or even a gripe the devs have. They don’t want killers going into the game with the intent of creating these impossible scenarios for survivors to deal with. People have held 3-gens for upwards to an hour—sometimes until the game servers literally just end the match. And that is becoming more common. It’s a problem. That’s why the devs are looking into it. Killer mains did this to themselves.
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Yeah you are right. Solo que is pain but not because my teammates are bad. Not at all. Killer tunnel more and more at 5 gens. They find quick the weakest survivor. Camp and tunnel out. And you cant help. If you help you don't do gens If not you repair 2 gens. 3 survivor 3 gens, nice. The Most toxic killer are huntress and blight. Huntress even more. Facecamp and tunnel. Every huntress. And you cant really help or anything else. Killer tunnel with every day more and I don't know why. Why they are so toxic? I hope bhvr do something about that this year. They fix facecamp but I think that is not enough.
I can understand that Killer want win the game but I had for example only 3 Killer today they got 4k without camp and tunnel. It's possible. If you cant do that then you are bad killer sorry.
I respect this 3 killer and wrote them that they are good and deserve the 4k. They know how to give pressure. And thats fine. Survivor and Killer had alot fun. Even If we lose but we had fun!
If you say I need to tunnel and camp because of genrush then you are just bad in chases.
If you want survivor leave this game, continue and maybe bhvr give us something.
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Tunneling and Camping isnt toxic, wanting to Win isnt a sign of toxicity. Good point though
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Me earlier vs a Wraith: hooks me first, then he's in chase with someone else. As soon as I am unhooked he comes back and stops chasing the other guy. He does it again later, he was chasing Bill as soon as I got unhooked again he came back and didn't bother with Bill.
Everyone did gens and got out.
This guy just lost the game over chasing me, but I'm sure he thought it was necessary to win.
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It is if you tunnel at 5 gens and hit the survivor thousand times at the hook. Teabag survivor If they are down.
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Yeah but you didnt mention the part about hitting the survivor on the hook and teabagging them. Also, we know against solo teams we can win without hard tunneling and camping, but if you really want to win you will want to secure someone out soon, because a bad scenario like 3 gens popping or 4 adrenalines activating happened at least once with every killer, so they dont want to face this bad scenarios.
About camping: most teams are unprepared to deal with camping, and this is something every survivor will learn with time. If the killer has a strong camping power you will need to let the person die
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I've been playing the game since 2016 and have approximately 5k hours, I have taken several breaks to stop burn out, and I honestly think I'm just done.
I've seen less than 10 survivors make it thru the gate this past month as survivor, I guess the games gotten to the point where if you aren't in a swf you just don't escape anymore and when in a swf you have to have all really solid players.
You have to be laser focused on gens and there's no time for anything else. Games gotten way too sweaty anymore and no matter how much you lose mmr doesn't seem to change anything thanks to queue incentives prioritizing speed over balance.
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No offense, but at which arbitarily chosen generator count is killer allowed to chase survivors?
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That's a disingenuous argument and you know it. Your hyperbole just shows you're incapable of having a productive discussion about the health of the game.
It is too easy to use cheap tactics to win as killer. Hooking someone in a deadzone and proxying camping them hitting them off hook and chasing them down for a free down is incredibly easy to do.
Lets not pretend its not happening. I run deli, dh, otr and DS and I can still be tunneled out of a game in less than 5 gens. Thats insane. I've got 4 perks to counter being tunneled and theres just nothing you can do if the killer wants you out of the game.
you turn a game into a 3v1 before 3 gens are done and its gg. That's counter intuitive to skill expression. Thats just ungabunga.
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If a survivor could survive a game as long as they bring all 4 anti tunnel perks then everyone would bring those perks for easier wins.
No single survivor is expected to be in chase for the entire game and still escape.
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Learn how to loop
Problemi solved
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Here's the thing...and this is just my 2 cents on the subject...My skill level as Killer is about in the middle of Low/Potatoes to High/Loop Masters. I could have a string of easy survivors who are full potatoes or new players and get 4k easily because they don't know how to loop or hide...
But instead of slowly going up in skill levels of survivors I'm all of a sudden facing Survivors who skill levels are way outside of my own and I'm getting 0-1k per match. Then after a few losses like that I'm facing potatoes again and the cycle starts all over.
MMR is not a good system for DbD since we all have seen how horrible the matches can be. This cycle will tend to have many Killers Camp and Tunnel to secure wins and that may get them past some of the early stages of the over their skill level but soon they will face Survivors that know exactly what to do and when and they get punched back down to potatoes.
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I might just be disensitized to it from 6.1 and not notice it anymore, but ever since the midchapter I haven't seen a single instance of hard tunneling on me or my teammates. I saw some beautiful snowballs, but no intentional tunneling that couldn't have been avoided if the survivors hadn't been healing under hook with killer out of chase or something equally unfortunate.
Granted, I haven't played much, but I must have put some 20h since then and usually it takes less than that to encounter such a widespread practice. In fact, most killers I've seen have been quite fair, and some of them were very cute in endgame chat.
Lower mid mmr is truly blessed.
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Splitting this up so it's not a history report long post lmao.....
I'm all for getting rid of Face Camping but what I don't like is how not too long ago the Devs said in a post that Camping, Tunneling and Slugging are valid strats.....
Now Face camping is NOT how the game is supposed to be played and currently what we know about the new anti camp system is that I can punish Killers who don't camp due to how the system works. Now I know we don't know the exact numbers so I'm just going with what BHVR has released so far. (So this might change once I can test out the system first hand).
But back to my point....what will stop BHVR from saying Tunneling is not how the game is supposed to be played or Slugging is not how the game is supposed to be played......with the current fixes to 3-gens (and yes I agree stopping a Killer from going right for the 3-gen from the start is needed) it also kills 3-gens I'm general with the current state of Gen Speed Perks Meta that seems to keep getting ignored.....
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So your answer is 3 gens, interesting.
Personally I think most people ignore the whole timeframe before the first survivor dies and then lament the 3v1 at 5 gens because they were simply unwilling to use that time. Its not the killers fault the 4v1 turns into a 3v1 like the trial started with just 3 survivors. That'd be by the way the only scenario where crying about a 3v1 being unfair would be applicable.
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You sound like a very new player,no escape in weeks? Not even hatch? That's very bad luck.
You probably found killers that always tunnel,no matter what team/situation and what players they face.
You should start watching guides on you tube on about how to loop the map tiles etc,I don't know if I can make names here but try Otzdarva,he is a Bhvr fog whisperer so it should be safe to name him.
Personally,I'm more of a killer main but I still play some survivor (solo) game from time to time to lessen the heat and I escape many times (I die the majority of it of course,you are not expected to always survive and I'm an unexperienced looper but still).
The biggest tip I can give is,if a killer tunnels you from the start of the match,it means you have all the resources (pallets) at your disposal,keep him busy,you can potentially have a 5 gens chase if the team focuses the generators.
Don't say you cannot do anything about it because that is not true,don't have this kind of mentality,that is not healthy for you or the community in general.
Remember that most of the time tunneling happens for a reason,who plays the killer role a lot knows,generators can be completed in a matter of minutes and chasing and hooking people 12 different times is not always possible (basically never on the higher mmrs),that is not fair and unfun too.
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What you are describing holds true for the killers side of the game, too.
Since 6.1 and its +10s gen time, survivors have been sweating their asses off and bringing all kinds of strong tool boxes and gen speed focused builds, and many of them would rather let one of their mates slip into hook stage 2, then letting go of a gen; as you described, everyone is laser focused on gens. I am surprised if at the one down mark not 2 gens pop and confused if its only 1, with 3 being no rare occurence these days.
And you never know as the killer what MMR deals you, so you can't "wait and see if I am up against baby survivors", you can't effort so shift gears mid-trial, if the survivors turn out to be really competent, no, you have to go all in, hard and fast from second one, with you feeling every single second you waste and every whiff is paid with blood and tears. You can't effort cute plays anymore, because nearly all of the killers gen defenses have been utterly shattered, nerfed to the ground, burned and forgotten. PainRes is still our strongest gen defense, but its a pale shadow of its former self and an extremely limited ressource that could go to utter waste if you pop it at the wrong time, or you might not get that last survivor and you can't hook anyone else a second time on the scourge hooks.
Jolt is somewhat usable, but thats more of a little slash of water against the oppressive tide of the gen rushing these days, so you gotta finde the weak link and mercilessly pummel it, because otherwise you will be made the laughing stock of the game, with everyone coming down hard on you and venting their own frustration on you, the weak ass killer who let them all escape. "######### lol uninstall ggez". And thus the vicious circle continous. This game has now all fat trimmed from it, all thats left is a lean, mean killing machine, and you either join in, or die suffering.
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No way man,forgive me but I don't believe you,this seems like an overexageration.
If you are always getting paired with a team of new players that don't know what to do I would just say you are very unlucky with mmr.
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Guess what's happening when the win condition are KILLS and ESCAPES. And paired with MMR both sides doing their objectives just even more effective, who would have thought. But don't you worry, instead of giving killers incentives to gor for more hooks, we gonna punish them even more soon. Treating camping, tunneling and slugging like problem childs won't solve it. Killers aren't stupid.
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I think there will only be more tunneling, as many killers find it hard to compete. It's not a secret that getting one surv out as fast as you can in many cases makes a match at least winnable. What incentive killers have not to do it?
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"40% escape chance was the desired ratio right? Well, during my last 2 weeks i have not escaped once thanks to tunneling."
The 40% escape rate is not per player, it's across all players, for every swf team that gets all 4 escaping, 6 solos have to die. That's balance BHVR style.
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My time to play is late night when matchmaking has always regularly sucked, last night I gave it a chance and one of my teammates had 1 day and a few hours of gametime. Like 30 whopping hours and we got a P70 blight that had the whole lobby slugged in under 2 minutes. First down in probably 15 seconds, it was nuts.
Next match perma tier 3 Meyers hard face camping me with 2 teammates hiding behind a wall nearby for the entirety of my first hook doing absolutely nothing.
Face camping bubba.
Tunneling Wesker.
A Wesker that was terrible but 1 teammate opening chests all game and 1 doing God knows what, third used damn near every pallet on the map first chase, no resources left. Everyone dies at 1 gen left, 1 gen that was there for probably 3 minutes.
Face camping bubba, I closed dbd after that. That was last nights gaming session. There was 1 hatch escape and I don't think a single person made it thru the gates.
Between matchmaking incentives already screwing up mmr and being late night it's unplayable for me anymore. I wish it was an exaggeration.
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No hardcore tunnelers hits survivor thousand times at the hook, that's literally waste of time, resource, and makes a window to save the one who is hooked.
There is nothing wrong in tunneling at 5 gen, actually that's the best time to tunnel/camp, kinda like how BNP is best used at last gen.
Most killers don't really have a way to "teabag" survivor too.
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They really need to incentivize spreading damage. Maybe like a Dying Light effect where actions become slower with each hook, or some sort of bonus for not targeting 1 player. People tunnel because there's no incentive not to. Needs to be addressed ASAP.
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DS needs to go back to 5 seconds, the mere threat of DS did a ton to stop tunneling.
4 -
Had my fill of tunnellers tonight from gen5's (soloq for me), last 4 games before i quit for the night, 2 weskers in a row hardcore tunnelling others, on the 2nd i offered myself up, got downed and he still chased the David down across the map (via killer instinct).
Then i had break from the tunnelling for a scratched mirror myrs in the meat plant, just stabbing away then leaving the chase straight away, this went on for 15mins straight(somehow we had 4 gens next to each for the final 2, and 2 of the soloq kept running off after every stab to selfcare) before i just ran up to him to die, had enough.
Followed by final match of the night back into tunnelling with an artist, chasing down some poor sod they caught first, and as usual moves a good distance away firing crows waiting for the unhook and tunnel, a lost match.
For those crying BNP's as an excuse to tunnel at 5 gens, you rarely, ever see this in soloq which is the majority of all games. In my last week of grinding the riftpass (usually uk night time) i've seen 2 BNP when i ended up team with a clear TTV duo swf and ended up getting stomped by a good wraith.
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i see BNP and syringes half the time. Different regions have different levels of sweat.
4 -
So what exactly should killers do at this point then?
1. Camping is the most boring thing
2. Ruin+Undying is the most boring thing
3. Slugging is the most boring
4. Anti-loop killers are the most boring
5. Tunneling is the most boring thing
6. 3-gens are the most boring
7. Hit and run is the most boring <----------------- you are here.
8. Killers Pressuring gens is boring
9. Anti-Healing is boring
10. Killers even playing the game is boring
Meanwhile:
JUST PRESSURE GENS KILLERS.
Exactly what kind of "play style" should killers do, that is a viable way to win, that isn't boring to you? Because at this point, it seems the only acceptable way to play as killer is to:
- Play a standard m1 killer
- Pick a single survivor, and chase only them, making sure to never use your power.
- Don't use any perks
- Once you down and hook that survivor, you need to immediately start running to the survivor that is the absolute furthest away from the hooked survivor.
- Then you repeat.
- But make sure after you hook the second survivor, that the 3rd survivor you chase, is not the one that saved the unhooked person (they might still be healing) but the 4th guy who has only been on gens.
- Repeat, making sure you do them in order, so nobody is eliminated from the game. Then if you actually make it to endgame, you can't camp the hook during endgame, you have to open the exit gates
- Then you have to let the other survivors save and body block, so all 4 escape, and then you have to let them teabbag you at the gate, you can't just run to the other end of the map and stare at a wall. You have to make sure you specifically WATCH them teabag.
- Also don't hit them to force them out, you need to let them teabag you for the full 2 minute timer.
- Also make sure you say: "man i suck really bad" and agree with them when they say "gg baby killer ez"
At some point, i think you need to examine yourself, and decide what it is you really want out of this game. Because there i so much conflicting information about what survivors want from:
- You need to chase more people
- You need to chase less
- Let us do gens
- Stop camping hooks
- Stop camping gens
- Stop proxy camping
- Don't defend hex totems (yes i heard this once)
- Pressure gens better
- Don't tunnel
- Camping in endgame is boring
- GG EZ killer couldn't get kills
Like for real, what the actual ######### do you want?
17 -
Personally, I want bhvr to make spreading hooks worthwhile. Give killers a reason not to tunnel.
I think ds should also go back to 5 seconds but keep the new restrictions on it so it can't be used in end game and it only works when being tunneled.
Before it's nerf, the mere existence of DS prevented a lot of tunneling.
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Making hooks mean something like for each different survivor hooked there is a stacking buff/debuff. But the Killer cant hook the same survivor in a row to gain the benefit. This would make Tunneling less appealing without totally butchering the play style.
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So give incentives to killers, by rebuffing a perk that makes it so every survivor runs it, recreating the meta they tried to get away from?
How about, give incentives to killers by balancing the game around hooks instead of kills and rewarding hooks.
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Dead by LateNight!
Jokes aside,if it can make you feel better,all these sweats you met will probably end steamrolled by some swf team ahahahah.
I too don't play the game much nowadays,it is not burnout,it's just that,most of the time,the players that can be found can be really tilt inducing to the point of wanting to log off immediately,from cheaters to uneducated baboons that insults you in the endgame chat for no apparent reason etc.
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Those were two different sentiments, give killers a reason to not tunnel by making it worthwhile, and then buff ds so it's never an issue for the people who go out of their way for the sole reason of being a troll and ruining one person's match.
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They keep nerfing gen regression perks without touching gen progression perks.
The tunnelling situation was inevitable. What else do you expect to happen when the majority of killers are getting their first hook after 2-3 gens have popped?
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Making it a perk is not the solution. Its a band-aid. Perks should not be required. It should be impossible due to base game mechanics.
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The only way a killer can tunnel a survivor out at 5 gens is if the survivors literally do not touch gens at all. The idea that the killer should wait for survivors to do gens before they can kill is simply survivors pushing their issues on the killer unfairly.
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They don't care. It took them 7 years to "do" something about camping. The first actual thing they did is locked behind a DLC.
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It's like house trying a puppy.
Why go outside when you can just relieve yourself inside? As such why should a killer play optimally when they can just hard tunnel and relax then after?
If bhvr don't rectify killer's "unfair" strategies they will usually take the easy way out.
Same with the puppy. You want it to go outside but you don't want to be too tough.
Bhvr didn't rectify anything out of fear and now the carpet is ruined.
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I agree, bhvr should give incentives (i.e. in game advantages, not bp) to killers to make tunneling less convenient... Which currently bhvr isn't doing at all, is it? Does nerfing all of gen defense and adding more stuff to gen speed seem to incentivize mixed hooks? I do not think so.
However, I should add that tunneling is not always easy, since many maps are super safe and surv side, so tunneling is not easy. It also depends on what killer you're using. If I use the Blight for example it doesn't make too much sense that I tunnel, since I'm using a pretty strong killer. If I use Legion for example, how can you expect me not to tunnel? Especially considering that I don't play against noobs, I play against swfs at high mmr.
Not to spam my ideas, since they aren't even appreciated (sigh), but I also have some ideas to stop tunneling, or at least reduce it, and I also posted it some time ago on this forum. No one considered it, the only one who answered said it sucks and doesn't make sense. My idea, essentially, would be to "penalize" the survivors who get hooked, each survivor is penalized by a certain amount based on how much he was hooked, so that a killer can reason by saying "If I make mixed hooks, every surv will have at least a certain amount of penalty, instead if I kill one immediately the others are at 100% strength". For me it would be the perfect idea, also because by doing so the devs can play around this mechanic with perks and maybe some add-ons.
2 -
I don't understand where this hyperbole is coming from. Who is saying to wait for Survivors to do gens? Where are you getting this from?
Your first sentence is just incorrect. That simply just does not happen. Have you played solo queue? Do you know how many times a skilled Survivor will be trapped playing with random casuals who have less than 100 hours in the game? I myself have been a victim of witnessing my entire team being slaughtered in minutes, while I am still working on the first gen on the other side of the map.
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The killer tunneling at 5 gens or when all gens are done are the same. The amount of gens done is dependent on the survivors, because a tunneling killer is not pressuring gens.
Complaining about killers tunneling at 5 gens is just saying that you and your team failed to work on your objective.
2 -
The game just needs to be balanced around spreading hooks and encouraging the fun (albeit challenging) part of the game, which is the chase.
Toolboxes need to be nerfed or reworked into primarily sabotage. Gen perks on BOTH SIDES need to be removed completely from the game, other than something like Technician (haha). Using Resilience while working on a Gen is fine, since it requires the player being injured to get that 9% boost. A lot of killers run Thana and Sloppy Butcher, so it will offset the boost anyways. That's my suggestion.
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"Complaining about killers tunneling at 5 gens is just saying that you and your team failed to work on your objective." -- This is just a gaslight of the Survivor experience. If you were talking to someone less nuanced than I, they would tell you the same thing about Killers. "You can't be gen-rushed, you're just not good enough at chase."
A Killer tunnels at the start of the match, chooses the wrong Survivor and ends up still chasing the same Survivor for 5 Gens. Then they rage when they all get out. Then hop on the forums and complain that they were gen-rushed by an SWF. It's just not rooted in reality. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The game has problems right now, but tunneling is just as abusive and unhealthy to the game as camping is. I understand perfectly well why both playstyles are being done. That doesn't mean I think they're OK.
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The solution is easy, dont load up the game and then you dont get tunneled😝 thats what im doing currently lmao
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Or just make the debuffs go away/become significantly weaker/dont get any more debuffs for further hooks, once a survivor bites the dust. Thus you would have both: an incentive to go for more hooks without hurting yourself AND an incentive not to tunnel the first player out of the game asap.
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This is getting ridiculous:
"Make Killers stop doing what the game design tells them to do!"
"So let's give them an alternative but equaly strong strategy."
"No! It has to be a nerf! Preferably one that also hits Killers who don't even do the thing I'm upset about."
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And make the buffs/debuffs strong enough to be worthwhile but not so strong that it becomes overwhelming to the Survivors. That's why it should be aix if Killer Buffs and Survivor Debuffs, also make it so if the killer does tunnel the same player they lose those debufs if they hook them two times in a row
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It would also mean that games could last 30 minutes each as spreading hooks would be very time consuming
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The game is designed for tunneling? Because when I play killer I go for whoever I can get first and I’m usually already onto the next survivor before the first one is even unhooked. If I happen to find the same survivor again yeah I’ll go for it but I never build a plan to just focus on one person until they’re dead. That’s a poor strategy and a jerk move. The game was designed to chase and hook every survivor. It was never designed for tunneling specifically.
2 -
They had an equally strong strategy, people still tunneled and camped.
The issue is that making the game a 3v1 is so busted that anything else that even comes close to that is absurdly strong.
A 3v1 shouldn't be as Killer-favored as it is right now.
4
