What's equivalent of being tunneled out of the game for killer?
It's not gen rushing because you can (attempt to) do something. You can't do anything on the hook and dead zone.
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Probably being denied lots of hooks by a bully squad. Thankfully it doesn't happen to me now that I can counterplay bully squads easily. But for newer killers a game against a bunch of flashlight sabo players who refuse to let you get a hook after a down is amazingly frustrating. Had a few games of that early on when I was still new to killer and it was highly unpleasant.
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Tunneling and gen rushing is pretty similar.
On the hook would be camping, not tunneling and there you can do nothing.
And why would you run into a deadzone? Being there bc a gen needs to be done sucks, but if you getting tunneled you dont do gens. And you have two downs to identify a deadzone and run to another location after the unhook.
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This.
If you are tunneled, you can be a good looper or get help from your teammates.
If you are facecamped by Bubba you are ripperoni pepperoni.
You "tunnel gens" instead of spread pressure on other gens. Same as killer.
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There is no direct equivalent. It’s an asymmetrical game
That’s the case for many situations though, even ‚just‘ bad matchmaking
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Survivors can attempt to beat tunneling.
The tunneled survivor can attempt to extend chase to make the tunneling backfire.
Other survivors can attempt body blocks to create distance for the tunneled survivor or even get the killer to change target.
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No I didn’t try to tell you to feel different. I am saying that there are multiple different situations that can make you feel like this.
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you're acting like theres nothing a surv can do about tunneling when there is like 20 ish perks for surv that are all abt making tunneling harder for the killer.
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I like to think of it as survivors "tunneling" gens. Basically, do they ignore everything else in order to go for the gen. I.E. Leaving their teammates on hooks, not healing each other, not cleansing totems, doing gens right in my face because i'm doing something else like hooking a survivor nearby.
What's funny is these scenarios often lead to tunneling and camping being a very effective strategy for the killer. Then they complain that the killer did that. Pretty funny TBH.
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What are you two on about?
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1v2+ chases, where even if you down someone, you can't secure the hook due to blinds and sabos.
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Had this happen with me once. Playing as jeff on rpd against a wraith. I kept first chase going for a very long time, loads of stuns and blinds. He spent the rest of the game hard tunneling me, but just held shift w in chase and took ages to actually land a hit. He lost 4 gens by the time he finally got me on second hook. Then the other 3 survs all banded together to body block in turn when I got unhooked, and i managed a clean getaway. Hid by a gate and they popped 4th gen and we had a 4 man out.
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I just wanna know why y’all are arguing. Damn. There’s no need to lash out at me.
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You -can- do something when you're being tunneled though. You can attempt to loop the killer and waste some of their time.
Also why are you in a deadzone? Your basekit BT and Haste should ensure you can reach a loop against the killer. If you use your speed boost to run into a deadzone that's pretty much on you.
Yes, tunneling sucks and being tunneled feels awful if you're not a great looper, but can we please stop acting like tunneling someone means they just drop dead with no input?
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A no mither/boil over squad was pretty miserable for maps like the old RPD library, Ormond, and dead dawg. Nothing you could really do except avoid some parts of the map once you knew.
Similar thing for double locker flashlight squads before that got nerfed. Just annoying and not much you can really do.
I'll never buy the 'doing gens is identical to tunneling survivors' bullshit. If the killer approaches a survivor on a gen, the survivor has to leave or lose a health state. If they stay, they get downed and at best they trade a hook for the gen progress. Either option is progressing the killer's objective to chase, down, and hook.
A tunneling killer can't be stopped. Survivors who want to interrupt a tunneling killer can only try and slow them down, and trade health states (or even downs) in the process. At no point is the killer ever completely stopped from tunneling because there is nothing that can override the killers autonomy in that choice.
That's completely the opposite since a survivor who chooses to stay at a pressured gen gets downed and their autonomy is taken away.
The tunneling killer will eventually get the survivor. And any other survivors attempting to stop that just means they aren't doing gens. There's literally no way, ever, within the game mechanics to even interfere with the killer tunneling while still progressing the survivor objective. You either ignore the killer and just try to escape as fast as possible, or are forced to give the killer additional advantage by ignoring gens.
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nah its definitely gen rushing. Both tunneling and gen rushing are based around focusing entirely on your objective, to the point that nobody has fun. Except gen rushing you bring items and perks to make it happen rather than just a simple strat. A killer can do as much about gen rushing as a survivor can about tunneling. A tunneled survivor can make it to a loop with bt, sure, but their gonna be injured that whole chase and prob go down crazy fast. Sure a killer can try to pressure that generator, maybe kick it or smth. But since regression at base is worthless, and they brought things to make gens go even faster, you cant do anything. If you try to get pressure, you are spending time away from the gens. Committing to a chase means gen progress. And with gen rushing, one survivor can finish a gen in 40 seconds flat. The average chase is about 48 seconds, so if everyones gen rushing every chase means one gen goes off.
Especially bc of BNPs. 5s to get 25% progress, 22.5 seconds. Effectively 450% speed for a few seconds. 1/4 of repair speed to regress, so 22.5=90. 90 seconds, a whole generator, to a regress a BNP that was done in 5.
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It's Gen rushing... plain and simple
Things can happen for both sides
Survivors can make it harder for the Killer to Tunnel... and Killers can make it harder for Survivors to complete Gens
And it's all part of the viscous cycle known as DBD
Tunneling Survivors means that Survivors will Tunnel the Gens to finish the match as fast as they can
If the Gens contained checkpoints that need a part to continue repairing the Gen
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As far as Deadzones, I think they are talking about getting hard tunnelled off hook. The area around where you got hooked typically is a deadzone because you wouldn't have gone down and utilized the resources if it wasn't. Also many Killers can force a vault grab or bodyblock the vault point even if it isn't a deadzone. Theoretically even against an M1 Killer, the Killer still runs slightly faster than the BT unhooked Surv, but most times you get tunneled by a power use like a Demo Shred/Wesker Dash/Blight Rush/Huntress Hatchet/Nurse Blink/etc.
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It is indeed genrushing. The easiest way to win with the less skill involved. Yeah, knowing gens location is not very hard in this game. Most killers can’t do much about it.
Meanwhile if you are a good looper or have decent teamates, you can still answer tunneling.
Post edited by Murgleïs on0 -
Because most Killers have powers that help them tunnel.
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That almost never happens. Yh some killer are strong and get you quick, but not bc of deadzones. You reach a loop, but against a blight or nurse it doesnt help much.
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Probably dealing with SWFs who can tell you the pixel count of the generators exact layout.
I always feel like each game needs 20 to 24 gen spots to spread the 8 gens. Do survivors can’t just instantly know where half of them are. Same with pallets.
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Well the other problem is you have to reach a normal loop, not merely a filler pallet. Even an M1 Killer can bloodlust any Borgo filler pallet, even if there are 30 of them.
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Borgo filler pallet? Almost every filler pallet on borgo is strong and so close, you can chain them easily. I wish someone would try to tunnel me on borgo. They always give up (Nurse excluded).
To be fair i use windows, so its really easy.
There are some weak pallets in one corner, but no reason to loop there.
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I legit won the other week as Pig just using stealth for a quick first hit and Bloodlusting those filler pallets. Is it fun? No. Is it effective? Yes.
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I too view tunneling as corresponding to coordinated and planned genrushing. At least when it comes to pressure and where to apply it efficiently while working toward the objective.
When it comes to the concept of feeling helpless and just having no way to do sth about it without a very specific build / very specific perks ... I'd say the equivalent is a coordinated no-hooks-no-slugs swf. Where there's no Mither, WGLF, FTP, Breakout, Sabo, Soulguard, Boil Over and maybe some other perk combinations that work well toward that end alongside toolboxes. You can't hook them because of where they run and which tools the others employ to make it impossible for you to hook a downed survivor. You can't slug because someone will come pick them up / they pick themselves up. - And if you are patient and efficient enough and you don't mess up you will kill all of them except one by bleeding them out - just like a good, coordinated team that doesn't mess up will manage to finish the gens before the tunneled surv is completely dead.
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Yh well everyone gets bad survivors. Borgo is widely known as survivor sided map and i have no trouble looping on it.
I mean you can definitely get a hit with bloodlust 3 on this pallets, but you would lose too much time. Without even counting the safe pallets, which reset your bloodlust and after one hit they are easily reachable.
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That kinda is my point though, that even on a favored map as one of the weakest Killers, you can still force a hit (even easier tunneled) in the majority of circumstances. There most certainly were the stronger loops where I needed to kick the pallet, but most people burn them prior to going down near that hook. When I say 'Bloodlust the Borgo/Garden pallet', I mean T1 Bloodlust, so 15-24s before getting the hit.
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But thats not completely true. In this case the skill of the survivor matters.
If you loop most of this pallets on the long side and vault the pallet, the killer needs more than T1.
So the survivor needs to make a mistake:
- dropping the pallet, when the killer can go around the short side, while in animation
- panicvaulting
- looping the short side
- etc.
Dont get me wrong, i would gladly see bloodlust removed, bc i thinks its an unfun mechanic, but getting tunneled out by a weak killer is a skill issue. (You can die but in the time, gens get done)
I would also like some changes, to make tunneling weaker, but its more bc of strong killer.
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A feeling of a lack of agency can be caused by several things: Gen rush, pallet heavy maps with lots of second chance Perks with syringe/styptic, strong/safe loop chains.
However this doesn’t change the fact that while it may feel like a lack of agency on the Killers part, they always have autonomy. Survivors quite literally have states where they lack autonomy to a significant degree. Such as when slugged, Hooked, carried, and completely when Killed.
This isn’t always a bad thing, but with tunneling a Survivor it’s a feeling of a lack of agency coupled with that loss of autonomy. “I never even had the chance to escape the Killer, they were always on my arse it was just one chase and back to the Hook I go”.
Survivors that tunnel gens may make the Killer feel like they have a lack of agency to prevent it, however the Killer still retains their autonomy.
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You can attempt to stop tunneling as well. Doesn't mean it's gonna work but you can at least try.
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