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So Scavenger is now a Killer perk?
Because this might be one of the worst survivor perks in the game now. Glad enough people complained about a perk that would have never been used anyways…
Comments
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If I’m reading it correctly, your repair speed is reduced for 30 seconds whether you’re on a gen during those 30 seconds or not. So it doesn’t seem so bad as it seemed but still not the nerf I would’ve given the perk.
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It’s a gen perk that discourages you from doing gens and requires you to hit 5 greats, which requires you to do gens….
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This nerf needed but perk is still good.
Your gen repair speed reduced for only 30 seconds. So you can go to hook save, take a chase, heal someone etc in this time. But your value is whenever you back to gen, you will have your toolbox again.
Perk is not dead at all.
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No because the amount of time that this perk will actually shave off is the same but how fast it can be applied is delayed. Still a worthwhile perk.
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It’s still useful, you just have to be strategic with it now. Recharge your toolbox at a time when it will be optimal for you to go do something else for a bit, such as unhook someone, heal, or maybe even bless a totem. Then go back to your gen and you’ll have a fresh toolbox ready to go after you waited out your repair speed debuff by doing other productive things for the team.
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Think about how you use the perk though. If you use finish using all its charges once a gen is about to be complete, then you can deplete the toolbox and complete the gen. Most of those 30 seconds will then be spent running to a new gen or maybe even healing a teammate, so it is more of a planning perk now that can still save you more time.
Also keep in mind it isn’t a one-time use perk anymore. This perk is still really strong when used correctly.
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It's still going to be more efficient to be on the gen anyway.
Infinite use means I don't have to worry about losing it to Franklin's at the start of the match. Something BTL can't really do much.
Also, if I'm using a toolbox to break hooks, the speed reduction may not be a big deal since I'm focused on breaking hooks instead.
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While technically true, it's not really the efficient to do so either. Because it's better to dump your toolbox and start building the great skill checks to get the toolbox back for the next gen. This nerf largely removes any benefit you would have gotten from reusing the toolbox.
I don't see perk seeing much use anymore, because there's no clear net gain from this perk anymore.
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It'll be strong, and nobody will use it, which is the far preferable outcome to it being strong and everyone using it.
It'll be very, very useful in dedicated builds, but won't be a free toolbox reset anymore. That's a good thing. If and when toolboxes are brought in line, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a bit of a tweak again.
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It is about timing. It’ll be best to deplete the toolbox as the gen gets done. You’ll then be able to get skill checks quick enough while on the next gen. If you’re worried about not hitting the skill checks, you’ll still be able to bring Stake Out and/or This is not Hapening.
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Still very strong, now it works as many times as you want if your good at hitting great skill checks. The 30 seconds is not that big of a deal really.
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Gen perks that have conditions seem to always be considered "killer perks". I remember people still say the same for potential energy. You need to be strategic in how you are using these new gen perks. They have risks but the rewards is good.
But i wouldnt be surprised for ppl to not branch out and still rely on Prove Thyself since its easy to use.
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It's 5 greats. If you wait to use a toolbox til the gen is almost done and then start building on the next gen. There's a good chance due to the rng nature of skillchecks that you don't even get back your toolbox til the 2nd gen is almost done or not at all. If you try to play around the penalty, you are more likely to not get much value from recharging the toolbox in the first place. Which is fine, but I don't see why you bring a perk in the first place.
BTL gives you a single use 99% recharge of a toolbox and ends up earning you a small time boost for the sitting in locker cost. BTL is likely going to be seen far more than scavenger, because the reason you would bring a perk to recharge a toolbox is to shave more seconds off of gen work. Not to go equal.
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I dont think it will be worth giving yourself a 50% repair penalty for 30 sec just to reuse a toolbox.
It sounds good in paper to be able to reuse your toolbox multiple times but this restriction will really hinder you if you time it wrong. Aside of the fact that if you are picking this perk is because you want to rush a gen and this actively work against it.
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Exactly this. There are better perks that require way less work for a better reward.
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It would've been way better if they just removed skill checks refilling the toolbox and just made the chest give a commodious toolbox. Would let player pair it with Pharmacy and give a reason to actually do chests.
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It would have been better if the restriction was "You cannot use your toolbox for 30 sec after it has been recharged" so you could at least keep working at normal speed while you wait as you already went through the "5 greats while empty toolbox" requirement, not 50% repair speed penalty so you are basically locked out of repairs for trying to use the perk you wasted a slot on.
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No it just required a brain to get value out of now.
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The problem with this nerf is the idea behind doing something else while you have a repair speed debuff. That's not how the survivor gameplay loop works. You don't just do things. You repair gens because that's what you should be doing, or you heal because that's what you should be doing, save because you're in the best position to do so, etc. Good survivor gameplay at a high level is a flowchart, not a planned series of actions.
I'm never going to go for a save because it's something I want to do or feel like doing. I'm going for the save because I'm closest to the hook, the only healthy player, have the fewest hook states, least gen progress, etc. I'm never healing just to heal. I'm healing when the health state outweighs the concern for gen progress at that moment.
So the logic of "find something else to do" is a bit flawed. I'm not trying to be overly critical, it's just not a winning mindset on survivor. It's more flowchart oriented and less "pick a thing to do out of these options".
I absolutely thought Scavenger was too strong. Don't get me wrong. I just think the nerf follows a train of thought that doesn't really exist in good survivor play.
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Thats the part that requires a brain. Use the toolbox once you reach around 1/3 of the gen done. Then by the time you complete the gen you most likely would have gotten 5 great skillchecks by then so you only spent a little bit of that gen with the repair speed penalty while you go run to find another gen effectively nullifying the penalty
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So like I said, the gameplay loop isn't a static thing you can plan around, which includes skill check counts and the gen regression that might be in play from game to game. It's very rare that you're working on a straight up 90 second gen from start to finish without any interruptions or alterations to the repair time. Planning around skill check RNG to avoid a massive debuff is not good design.
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You do realize that this is an extremely ideal and not at all consistent?
You have a lot of things that could mess the timing of this perk:
You used yout toolbox but you finished the gen without doing the 5 greats.
The killer chased you off the gen before you could recharge the toolbox and started the timer.
A killer perk blocked your 80%-90% completed gen and you had to go to another gen.
You started the timer but you are not in position to do anything else but repairing(cant heal, cant rescue, cant be in chase)
There are a lot of situations where managing that 30 sec timer is a lot more complicated than "just do the 5th great when you are about to to finish the gen".
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Exactly this. It has nothing to do with “having a brain” and way more to do with the fact that this perk doesn’t coincide with how the game is typically played.
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That's even worse because now your aren't on a gen at all and then the killer may not even be chasing you so it's pretty much eat the repair debuff and try to move through it or don't do anything for half a minute, it's a dead on arrival perk it didn't need any changes because built to last was already stronger than the perk before they nerfed it into the ground
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Thirty seconds is a big deal in this game and why in the world would you even bring the perk if you're good at hitting skill checks? You would be essentially debuffing yourself the entire game where you can do it multiple times, Explain in what imaginary world this perk is even worth considering over built to last or even at all for that matter when you can't guarantee a chase or something productive during the numerous times it will activate and slow you down to a snails speed on repair?
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BLT wasn't stronger than PTB scavenger when it came to toolboxes. If you were using BTL on a toolbox more than once, you were throwing since the return on toolboxes after the 1st time was worse then just working on a gen.
PTB Scavenger allowed you to double any toolbox you brought in without losing efficiency on gens.
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It's become significantly clunkier, but I can see opportunities for this.
Pair this perk with, for example, Inner Strength or a boon. Hit your five skillchecks, refill your toolbox, and while the penalty is active, go deal with a totem to maintain efficiency.
It's still a good distance from joining Autodidact, No Mither and Potential Energy in the 'what is this killer perk doing in the survivor section?' category.
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Perk was not as good without those "comp banned toolboxes" for people who aren't the top 1%. This perk is definitely dead because now you can't commit to gens while using this perk, which is what people should do in general. This perk IS dead because they listened to the community... as usual.
The people here making pathetic reasoning like "yOu CaN Go Do aN UnHoOk!!!1" like that's too situational to merit running this perk, are the type that overreact to every single new thing, so their opinions are invalid.
This is the DBD forums, "good players" go here to whine about every single thing that they think prevents them from killing "that 4 man SWF they see every game", they're just happy that their fearmongering worked and are trying to defend it.
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Sleeping on autodidact and I’ll die on that hill.
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Tbf one could just as easily synergize Potential Energy and No Mither to ‘work’. This new perk is more aligned with those than you think.
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Still seems okay, keep your toolbox at 1 charge and either right before you finish a gen or have to go for a unhook or whatever use the last charge so the 30 second gen speed penalty is mostly spend running to the next gen/ drawing agro/ unhooking etc.
Just takes some thought now
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A swf can have 1 person bring this perk and everyone can drain their tool boxes and just have 1 player constantly replenish them. The 50% reduction speed helps this out because they will just keep getting more skill checks. Replenish tool box, give to team mate rinse and repeat.
That person doesn't need to worry about their gen progress when they can just keep replenishing over and over until the games won. This perk is both trash and busted at the same time. For solos this perk is worthless. For swf? rip gens.
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This would require that one player to hit 15-20 great skill checks during the game? This is highly, highly unlikely rng wise for something that's not even efficient.
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Majority of swfs aren't going to do this. The minor amount of advantage that might be generated by having 1 person act as a toolbox refiller is not going to be worthy enough for the micromanaging of items.
No SWF whose main goal is to rush gens as quickly as possible are going to stop working on gens to trade items and resume work and do this multiple times in a game.
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well if your working on a gen longer because you're speeds been reduced you will get more chances at skill checks. I don't have a problem with greats, I run hyperfocus without stake out. I assume most players over 1k hours are like that?
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I feel like the only change this perk needs with this affect is it should let you activate the cooldown / refresh at will. It's bad enough with skillcheck RNG this perk seems like it may be an equivalent to Autodidact now. It's going to rely on good timing for something else to come up so you can hop off the gen at a good time.
Then again - I'm absolutely fine if this perk becomes far too opportunistic because toolboxes are too strong as it is.
The main issue I see is running this perk and you're not trying to use your item just normal repair - You're trying to clutch a generator and you hit that last great skillcheck and the perk activates and all of a sudden the next 30 seconds your gen repair is slow. I get that you can argue just don't hit the great skillchecks but again this could be in clutch situations where the perk causes you to lose a game.
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If BHVR wants me to "plan accordingly and spend this [debuff] time elsewhere," why can't they keep this perk at single-use and just let me press a button to recharge my toolbox?
That way the I can "plan" to recharge my toolbox when I am going for unhook, healing, in chase, or doing totems.
Increase the debuff duration if need be. idgaf.
Just don't leave everything up to RNG. ffs.
Your design doesn't match your intention, BHVR.
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Even if you could hit great skill check easy, you are still reliant on getting those skill checks to appear in the first place. If you are not getting these in a short time you will be wasting more time trying to refill the toolbox than repairing.
This may sound ridiculous but i had games which i have been repairing a gen for 30 sec before getting my first skill check to activate fast track or fogwise.
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your analysis is excellent. I had same thoughts. I do not see point of equip perk that gives net 0 value.
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This still isn't logical because you would then have to run all the way across the map to a single survivor everytime they're at 4 skill checks and then sit there and wait for them to get one to refill the box because it's automatic at 5 skill checks it doesn't just stack up beyond 5, then get your toolbox back and run to a different gen that's not having a 50% reduction to the speed , all that time is for nothing and someone is occupying the killer during all this wasted time and essentially did it while two other survivors are acting like little kids who can't reload a nerf gun by themselves and wasting what would end up being minutes by the end of the trial doing nothing but running and waiting for a debuffed survivor who's the only one truly committing to a gen to help them out.... You don't see where it's a time waster?
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with just the original perk you could do 3 gens in 2 minutes and 45 seconds. them adding the reduced repair speed means at the very least it will now take 3 minutes and 15 seconds to complete 3 gens. The perk is still strong, maybe even stronger. Think about it, with it being infinite recharges that is a really good anti 3 gen perk.
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How do you even know that? It's extremely difficult to know how much time you could do x gens with this perk because of the unreliable rng skill checks, plus all the killer interactions.
And knowing how random this skill checks appear and the setback of the 30sec of 50%repair i can only assume you may have made one refill at most in that time.
So the 3 gens in 2:45 min must have been made using other gen perks rather than Scavenger itself
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street wise, hyperfocus, scavenger, bond, could've been faster if I paired it with the new busted de ja vu.
I used a stop watch when I got the 2:44.8. Just add the 30 seconds your not on a gen to that and you get 3:15. it was actually less than that time I just fumbled the time stop.
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Eh time will tell. Claiming its dead without even having a ptb to test the new changes is just silly. This perk is still gonne be most likely strong especially for just holding it for the final 2 gens.
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You are using a full gen rush build, not just Scavenger. you are not even using an exhaustion perk. This are the type of build people use while testing because in a normal game they will get you killed in no time.
And for the time you are presenting, you must have never even seen the killer in all 3:15min it took you to do the gens. that is even if those gens were actually repaired entirely by you and you didnt receive any help.
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I mean gens already fly fast enough as is in lobbies that actually know what they're doing and the 2nd part of this perk helps prevent that. Having perks that just legit enable faster gen speeds is not good design itself and now this perk actually offers a trade off to make it more balanced despite intentional design or not.
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I don't rely on exhaustion perks and make it out of most games. I used dead hard maybe one time in my entire time playing this game. You don't need exhaustion perks to loop or escape chases.
I gen rush because I have too in solo q. I find most games, not only am I doing the most gens but I am also the only one getting saves while 2 other team mates are off doing who knows what in the corner.
This build will help me more on live than you possibly could know. If I drop bond for the new dejavu, skull merchants will be kicking rocks.
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Still stronger than built to last.
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Yeah a net loss if you just use it at the start of a gen its the matter of when you use it.
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