So Scavenger is now a Killer perk?
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The fact that it's now a multi-use perk is a huge buff to the perk and the 30 seconds is easy to work around - recharge it when you're running to the next gen or off to unhook or getting in the killer's face to draw a chase.
In all, this is an overall strenthening of the perk, just blocking the truly obnoxious use of it found in the PTB
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Also there are other Gen speed perks that would make that slowdown mean nothing.....there are a few that come to mind that would cut that slowdown in half at least.... because as far as I know we have Steak out that makes all checks auto greats then combine that with Rebecca's perk and boom your back to almost normal repair speed and you have a freash toolbox on the way
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It's going to be one of those perks that so many say is a dead or lame perk but when they test it out or a tuber shows the perfect combo with it then it will be seen in every build.....
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You don't choose when it recharges it automatically does at 5 skill checks and it happens repeatedly now, nobody is gonna use this perk because it's trash now anyone who thinks this perk is strong is trolling, how is debuffing yourself for multiple times a game strong? The upside of having the toolbox still isn't enough when youre constantly at a -50 repair speed being punished for hitting great skill checks because toolboxes run out in like 10-15 secs and if you debuff yourself more than once on one gen it could take almost 2 minutes to complete it, also people acting like you have a magic button at five skill checks to automatically summon a chase is hilarious you cant force any scenario during the wasted time it's extremely situational
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Absolutely needed the nerf. Being able to just completely refill your charges for hitting a measly 4 greats (especially since toolboxes give mor skillchecks) was too good considering you didnt have to do anything else to refill it. like the page says, built to last requires finding and hiding in a locker for a good 12 seconds. scavenger just gave you free toolbox.
But yeah this nerf is kinda wack. why not just rework it entirely, its kind of like DH where its core isnt good game design. So your only option is to either rework it or make it unusable, the latter of which is much easier.
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That doesn't even make sense because then I'm better off with just hyperfocus, stake out by itself with no toolbox , or using built to last one time with that combo and just focusing gens the rest of the game I'll always get gens done way faster without this perk they should've reworked the entire thing and made it have nothing to do with gens or gen speed
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You were required to hit the 4 great skill checks when the toolbox was empty to refill it pre nerf, so unless you were running Hyperfocus it is completely rng dependent.
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BNP is a thing that exists, plus commodius lasts long enough to hit 4 greats. Skillchecks come fast enough while toolboxing that its not hard to do.
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You have to hit 5 skillchecks with an empty toolbox in hand.
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This doesn't change the fact that it can't be replenished until the current toolbox you're using is out of charges.
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oh yeah, let me just pray to Mathieu real quick for a skill check just before I hop off my gen.
That's worked so well for me with Autodidact...
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People don't understand how frustrating perks that are triggered by skill checks can be. I use autodidact all the time but the rng nature of the perk can be severely offputting.
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They just need to stop adding gen perks, they clearly can't balance them and no one likes them.
Killers hate any perks that speed up gens, survivors hate any perks that slow/block gens.
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To my understanding the perk activates once you hold a depleted toolbox? Not when you make your last skillchecks.
It's just 99% your toolbox and using the last bit when you have to do anything else then working on a gen for a bit
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Regardless of how you use it everytime you activate it it's still gonna be a debuff though you can't get around it, the equivalent of a perk like this would be like me saying a reworked enduring everytime you got hit with a pallet you slow down 5 percent base movement speed stackable to 5 tokens with the trade off of having max tokens and being able to walk through pallets instead of breaking them, "but you don't have to break the pallet anymore" the trade off would be so dumb there would never be a good reason to have enduring like that you would never catch anyone and the same could be said for this perk if everyone ran it you would end up stalling the game and even if a couple popped early you would buy the killer a ton of time , why debuff when you could run something else?
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You need to deplete your toolbox, then start farming rng great skill checks and the moment you hit the 5th one, scavenger activates refilling your toolbox and giving the 30sec debuff.
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I usually dont mind gen perks(unless they are extremely busted like old Eruption).
Balance issues aside, What bothers me is when they create perks like this that work against themselves.
"We want scavenger to incentivate repairing in short bursts", why would you pick a toolbox refiller perk if you want to do that, that's the literal opposite of what scavenger is meant to be.
It's like designing a gun that shoot backwards after you use it once.
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forget about scavenger, did you see the buff on that slugging perk?
"we'll address camping, tunneling and slugging later on"
so they buffed a slugging perk, that's how they addressed it. lololol
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Nah, it’s a net loss at any point in the match. Built to Last outclasses it.
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How does built to last out class it? Maybe after the first recharge with a double charge addon commodius but the 2nd and third uses are still a net loss because then its just 34 charges which is still under 14 seconds of "time saved". Plus I find it curious how you call it a net loss as its a fact when there's legit no testing available.
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That's not what it says here. I haven't played with it yet obviously but as written it activates on the last charge, not on the 5th skillcheck
Couple of things wrong with your analogy.
First it is a debuff you can get around. penalty to gen repair does nothing if you are not working on a gen at the time. And even the biggest of genrushers can't teleport. If you activate it before finishing a gen and it takes you 15 seconds to run to the next gen you only lost 7.5 seconds gen progress. Most toolboxes save more then that. If you spend those 30 seconds unhooking a survivor you lost zero gen progress.
Second your enduring rework is not equivalent at all. For starters you don't choose when you get stunned by a pallet like you can choose when to use your toolbox. Your penalty also last forever where Scavenger last 30 seconds. It's honestly nothing alike
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Regardless of all that the enduring rework was a silly example of being punished and it being called a perk and btw you don't control when you have skillchecks even with a toolbox, it's not going to change the fact that nobody will run this perk unless they're trolling it's still a dead perk on arrival when it shouldve just been left to a one time use and instead of a 30 sec debuff for endless uses, it could've took thirty secs after you hit the skill checks as a cool down to refresh the box to prevent abuse and then it would be right there with built to last around the same strength and it wouldnt feel like I'm running a perk that hurts the team especially if more than one survivor has it, just kinda lame I wish they would just stop making gen perks because they either are too strong or not worth a slot
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Its drawbacks have been explained to you. Crowman did a thorough job of this.
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mmm, i dont know for sure now.
Although even if that is true and you can time the debuff with the toolbox charges, i still think is not worth it to use a perk like this. The majority of situations which you use a toolbox you dont really need to do any other action to justify having a debuff for the precise action you were doing before.
And then you have the hit 5 great rng-based skill check part which is still not consistent.
i understand the need of some perk to incentive survivor to work in short burst as the dev said, but that effect should be tied to a killer perk, not the drawback of a survivor gen perk.
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Drawbacks = not worth using lul. You dont HAVE to hit the greats if you get chased off a gen and come back with 4/5 greats hit while the gens 60%. If anything you could get more value out of this perk than 90% of other survivor perks.
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You couldn't control skillchecks any more with the previous version. Skillcheck rng didn't stop the previous version from being busted. One extra isn't the end of the world.
I'm not going to say that this is still SS+ auto include busted tier but it's far from dead
This perk will never hurt the team if you're smart about it
If you don't have any other action to justify other then doing gens you're already winning.
If you can glue to gens without the killer interrupting you or needing to go help your team then you'll finish the gens in 5 minutes anyway.
That would be like saying old dead hard is useless if the killer doesn't hit me. While true it wouldn't matter cause you'd never get hit.
In actual games the killer is going to come to interrupt you, you are going to need to unhook some survivors, you are going to need to walk from gen to gen.
If you can spend those 30 seconds during chase then they might not even have been there. There are ways around it.
Skill check rng isn't any different between this version and the first one. If the first one was superstrong with only 4 skillchecks this one isn't going to be worthless with 5.
The real kicker here is that you have to wait to activate it untill a moment arrives. Delaying when you'll be able to use it.
That's also why the infinite use buff might not even be there. In a realistic match you're probably not going to be able to use this that often.
The perk is a lot weaker. But it's far from dead. I think it's pretty balanced now. And a fun reward for people who have good gamesense
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What i meant is i cant find the way this perk is meant to be used. With any gen perk you can always picture the ideal best way to use it like PT having the 4 survivors in the same gen but what about Scavenger? How is Scavenger meant to be used?
I can only think of 3 scenarios:
1) You try to activate scavenger as many times as possible to refill the toolbox, but then this perk will hinder you over and over with that crippling debuff making it not worth it.
2) you 99% a gen and then use the last charge to finish it so the debuff does not affect you, but then you will have this perk dead in your build for 99% of a gen time and you can maybe get some value at half of the next gen if you are lucky with the RNG skill checks and you are good at hitting greats.
3)the killer interrumpts you or you go for unhook, (first of all there are tons of things that can happen that could make you unable to unhook someone like being injured, killer facecamps, too much distance) but then in this situations you are simply not repairing at all. you are not getting value out of scavenger because you are being chased.
so you have this "gen" perk that either hinders you constantly, is dead most of the time you need it or force you to be in situations that you cannot repair.
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In general it's going to be.
Instantly use your toolbox but leave the last charge.
If the killer comes for you, use it and bypass the penalty by being in chase.
If you need to unhook use it and bypass the penalty by unhooking/healing
If you don't need to do either, use it before finishing the gen your on and then either
Boon a totem/ cleanse a totem for inner healing and you'll be able to make up the time for doing that later
Or just go to the next gen skipping one (something you should always do to prevent 3 gens)
You'll either completely avoid the debuff with cleansing or partially avoid the debuff. If you're under the debuff for like 10 seconds you'll still make it up later.
Do the gen, get the skillchecks and then use your new toolbox to break the last and most difficult gen.
Comparing it to build to last shows the debuff really isn't the end of the world. Even if you spend the entire 30 seconds on a gen ( which should never happen) you only lose 15 seconds of gentime. Compared to Build to last 12 seconds being in a locker it's really not so bad.
At worst they are comparable
Speaking of build to last i don't think scavanger deactivates when your toolbox get charges in another way.
So in theory you could deplete your toolbox just before finishing a gen, get in a locker for 12 seconds, get a new toolbox, go to the next gen, by that time the 30 second penalty is almost over, use your toolbox and only get 4 of 5 great skillchecks and then get the 5th one when your toolbox is depleted again.
Not sure if that's how it works ofcourse so take that last example with a grain of salt
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You're right, that is what the perk's description suggests.
I can't recall now what the wording was before the 7.0.0 changes, but I understood the activating condition to be the moment the toolbox is recharged. Definitely doesn't sound like that is the case.
It sounds, then, like picking up a toolbox that has been depleted via Franklin's would immediately activate Scavenger.
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I’m disengaging from you. Please don’t tag me anymore. Thank you, good day.
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On the PTB the wording was this: “While you are holding an empty toolbox, Scavenger activates.” Then the part about the skill checks and how it recharges the toolbox.
I was thinking at first when I read the changes the other day that the repair speed debuff triggered upon fully recharging the toolbox but I’m not sure that’s the case now, I think it may be as soon as you are holding the empty toolbox. If it activates as soon as you have the empty toolbox that makes it a lot stronger imo since now you have way more control over it. If it’s not a good time to deal with the penalty/leave your gen for a bit, just stop using your toolbox a little early so it’s not empty. Guess we’ll see once the update goes live.
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Ok but we'll see if "dead" scavenger is really dead when it releases.
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So tired of these extreme downsides. 30% slower chest opening speed for Calm Spirit, actually making the perk a detriment. Visionary being disabled for 20s after gen is completed, why? Technician, a training wheel perk making you blow the gen up for more progress for no reason. It could reduce it to 5% and it would not be broken in the slightest.
And now Scavenger having a 50% genspeed debuff? Insane. Sure you can kind of make it work by leaving the gen but so what? I don't like that at all. If they're running out of ideas, why are they still adding 3 perks per chapter? I'd be way more excited to see some highly requested buffs for weaker and outdated killer and survivor perks.
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Most players have very low adaptability and frequently fearmmonger when it comes to new content.
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At the end of the day it doesn't matter because nobody is forced to run the perk if they don't like it so there really is no adapting so to say.
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