This game's turned sour, thanks to gen speeds
Played since 2020, gens have never been this quick. It's never a good thing to practically start the game off with 60% of the enemy's objective done. Such large maps compound this issue. Doing gens as quick as they are now is also an indirect counter to practically every other build other than regression since its completely off the table now. Chase perks don't matter--you've got one or two chases per match at the rate the gens are done. Aura reading is countered by one person using distortion and calling out the killer's perks. There'd also zero meaningful regression in the game unless you're playing skull merchant. Tunnelling your first hook out of the game is absolutely necessary for anyone who's not playing this game as a job, just gotta hope everyone gets off gens to try and take hits etc. Regular players are unable to keep up.
It's honestly really boring to play killer even with all of the changes we've had over the past year or so. Having one hook at 3 gens means there's another 11 hook states to play around, and it immediately puts the advantage in the survivor's hands. With camping changes around the corner, there's going to be no way to get people off of gens aside from physically going to the gen or slugging multiple people.
This game was way more fun when it was unbalanced and before MMR was established. MMR and gen rushing (but moreso MMR tbh) destroyed this game.
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You can thank the Toolbox + BNP + Wire Spool + Prove Thyself + Built To Last + Stake Out combo for that. Oh and Sprint Burst so you can get to gens faster! I simply cannot wait for that new Scavenger perk that promotes further gen rushing. When all four survivors have this you might as well just go AFK and grab a snack and they would probably finish all the generators by the time you're back...
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There’s been a weird shift in ideology that shorter games are better. There’s also been a consistent narrative that “the chase is the best part” of the game, yet survivors sure do like blitzing gens in as little time as possible. I don’t blame people for being efficient though. It’s on the devs to stop it from happening. Yet the devs seem to be quite happy to normalise 5 minute games so there’s not much hope for that.
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as someone who's played killer for over 3000 hours now, i havent really seen any issues with gens speeds as bad as a lot of people have pointed out? maybe its because my focus isnt entirely on gens but moreso the chases, mindgames and understanding positioning and using tech that i come up with or have studied. and i play what's considered a "b-tier" killer 99% of the time!
sure, sometimes gens do go by a little quickly, but i think its because i also generally play without slowdown perks and make mistakes like not accounting for seconds im spending doing something, breaking chases when i need to, etc., not to mention this game does have RNG so i am not expecting to win all the time anyway.
if the gameplay is not to your satisfaction, do you think it's time to maybe shift your focus towards a different goal instead?
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People wanted all the non-gen perks nerfed into oblivion, while simultaneously having access to tunneling and camping with no consequences (aka two methods that also drastically speed up the match for a player). This is the natural result of that. Is it ideal? No, but this is just one example of what happens when players want their hands held. And this is not exclusive to killers, there are examples across the board
Matches lately, in my personal experience, are almost always determined in the first minute. Survivors either drop like flies or they blast through gens. The more we "balance" a game that was inherently imbalanced to begin with, the more you're going to see these matches where one side dominates the minute the other makes a single mistake.
Say what you want about the "unbalanced" elements of years past, but at least they made the game more fun, more interesting, and, ironically, more "balanced" in the sense that either side could implement something ridiculous in a match.
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Gens literally take longer than in 2020.
The issue for a lot of people is that the new meta of gen regression requires you to play good macro and have good gamesense. Most players liked the CoB, Eruption and Overcharge meta where they didn't have to do anything skillful and got value.
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I started recording my matches. Anything under 10 minutes is far from being fun and exciting.
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Why do you think survivors blitz gens though? It's a response to the fact that majority of killer players will try to kill somebody as quickly as possible and if you are at anything more than 2 gens when this happens, the survivors lose 99 times out of 100. The healing nerfs amplify this effect as it's not even worth it to heal a lot of the time so this only leaves gens left to do.
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Both sides play as optimally as possible because there is no reason not to. I said in my OP I do not blame the players for this.
The devs unfortunately keep creating new issues with all their attempts to address current problems. For example, the devs clearly hoped the healing nerfs would slow the game down somewhat. Instead as you’ve said yourself, gens fly because healing isn’t worth it a lot of the time. So you get meta builds which look something like Adrenaline, Resilience, Prove Thyself and then usually an exhaustion perk. Don’t forget the toolbox, sometimes with a BNP as well or a medkit with a syringe. Then people either sprint away as soon as the killer is in sight or they’ll pre drop pretty much every pallet.
Again, I am not blaming players for this. This is the environment that has been created. And in response to all these factors, killers will try to eliminate one person ASAP. Because spreading totally even pressure and trying to let everyone have a good time is not viable. It’s not a good spot right now for the game.
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While I do think that some of the tools available for speeding up generators are too strong, and I'll gladly lend my voice towards getting those things nerfed, I do have to question part of your sentiment here. Specifically, you say there's no way to interrupt generators except "to physically go to them", and... yes? Yes, you're meant to pressure survivors away from generators by actively pushing them away from said generators, that's part of your job as killer. Get a hook, go chase someone, now a third person has to come off generators to save the first.
I only bring it up because if and when the overpowered toolboxes get nerfed, that part is still going to be the case. You are still going to lose generators if you aren't going and pressuring survivors away from them, that's just how this game works.
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When they de-incentivize any purpose for survivors to be off gens and force a narrative to unglue off a gen like with the new Scavenger.
Any other playstyle is unwelcome and viewed as bullying the killer or just annoying (see Any Means Necessary after it got buffed). And then people act surprised when we have this genrush issue.
Post edited by GolbezGarlandGabrant on2 -
I used to play a ton of killer and barely touch it now. I've had like 10 killer games in the past month and I used to play both sides pretty evenly.
When The Singularity comes out I'll probably just adept and get whatever achievements are tied to it and not bother with it again.
I mostly just play survivor now. If you can't beat them, join them!
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Gen times and Gen speeds are 2 different things
Gen Times- 90 charges
Gen Speeds- 1.0-2.2 charges per second plus bonus progress for hitting great skillchecks... then add in perks and Toolboxes V .25 charges per second and 2.5% of current progression lost
Meaning that Gens can be done in 45-90 seconds and Gen regression takes 348 seconds ( 2.5% of 89 = 2 so 87X4= 348) to regress a Gen fully
So 10-5 seconds longer along side Survivors that are getting better at looping doesn't mean that much
But I do agree that Gen regression takes more skill to use which players aren't used to... but what about having 1-3 Survivors working on 1-3 Gens so what then
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Gen regression is also not as consistent as it was. Overbrine and Eruption got a lot of criticism (a lot of it justified) but the fact is it was consistent and always reliable, hence the high usage. Perks like PR and Jolt are good, but they are not consistent. PR in particular is heavily RNG dependent.
I have no issue with perks being reward based and not providing consistent value- but that needs to extend to both sides. Killers should have to earn their slowdown and not mindlessly kick gens. But by that token more survivor perks need to be redesigned like dead hard to have actual conditions for use. Right now there are too many survivor perks and items which provide great value with no conditions.
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Do we have full moon again or why is it we have to read lots of threads that the game is too hard as killer again after it already was made clear that its not?
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There’s no guarantee that Unbreakable becomes basekit. And given BHVR’s track record, I doubt it will. Plus they just buffed that slugging perk (Forced Hesitation) from the Singularity.
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Sprint Burst is used mostly in chases not to get to gens.
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Are you seriously replying to my comment with this?
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Still takes 2 minutes wow wee
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Yes cause it’s the truth
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Sprint Burst has many uses depending on the situation you are in. Can it be used to get to another generator faster? Yes. Therefore, is it relevant in the context I provided? Yes.
Sprint Burst can also allow you to sit on generators in literal dead zones without worrying about taking a hit. Does that support gen rushing? Yes. Therefore, is it relevant in the context I provided? Yes.
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There's actually no way all 5 gens are done in 2 minutes, sorry.
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It’s not gen rushing
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It takes 2 minutes to do a generator it's true
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Having a fully gen oriented build isn't gen rushing..? Let's not be delusional.
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It takes a minute and 30 seconds to do a single gen.
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What did you expect really after the DH and healing nerf? BHVR wants survivors glued to gens and that’s exactly what they’re doing. Blame the devs for killing off all other playstyles
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Base gen speed is the longest it's ever been since 6.1.0 increased it to 90 seconds.
It's also not perks, because the only perks that even affect gens that are new or buffed since 6.1 are overzealous (which *still* isn't mathematically worth running) and Hyperfocus (which is a pretty rare perk to be running).
What you're seeing lasting impact of the gen kick meta, which had 2 critically detrimental effects on the game in general:
Killers spent nearly 10 months with some of the strongest gen control perks this game has ever seen and drove home exactly one message in every single game: Do gens or die.
Not only that, but literally everything else in the game became marginalized during that time. Game sense? Unnecessary. Chase and mind games? Nah. For an incredible number of people, the game boiled down to: bind every key to 'break generator' and slam your face on the keyboard for up to an hour and you'll probably still win by attrition alone.
So now, post regression nerfs you have survivors who are conditioned to do gens and don't even have boons as a side objective anymore, and killers who seemingly lack object permanence or take 3 minutes to end a chase.
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I see very few solo survivors ever bring this build once a match, least of all 4 times. Are you sure its a survivor issue, and not an swf issue?
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Thats because devs only balance for matches overall, rather than for every single match.
if you get matches back to back were you 4k and then never get more than 2 hooks, both matches were most likly unbalanced skillwise to begin with, however overall the average just leads to the 50-60% killrate. (they said once that they can accuratly predict the outcome of a match (and thus think matchmaking works), which i think is easier the more the skill difference increases, while with close matches, like at least i would prefer, you shouldnt be able to predict the autcome accuratly every time).
Instead, devs should focus on making every individual match balanced, but thats a) a lot harder, and b) devs focus on fast queue times instead.
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Tunnelling your first hook out of the game is absolutely necessary
Have you considered that gens are flying because you tunnel? By targeting 1 person, you allow the other 3 to do gens unimpeded.
That said, I do think toolboxes could use another nerf.
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Yeah, pretty much what I think. I've started this game to play killers, but currently (unless I'm playing trapper, in which case people often just give up) I get 3 hooks for 3 gens done and my choice is to either tunnel someone or just throw a game. I'm tired and bored. I can't have fun with crazy builds, I can't get into chases, cause I lose any pressure I had. Survs just run away to the edge cause they know I can't leave gens for long. Maybe new killer will be better for me, cause he can teleport.
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If the maps were designed better, probably wouldn't be a problem for some. A lot of killers don't know how to proxy gens to their favor. But to be fair some maps are insanely large.
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I think part of this "Gens are flying" thing is that a big chunk of the playerbase now is experienced, which make then do gens faster.
Let me explain: Doing gens optimally as possible as survivors is the easiest way to win, so when you learn how the game works, what to do when the killer is chasing someone, etc, etc., you probably will be doing gens whenever you can, which make the gens go MUCH FASTER than if the survivors would mess around, doing totems or opening chest. And i don't think there is an easy way to "solve" this "problem".
TBH, i feel the game is far more fun now, as without boons and with nerfed medkit its easier to create pressure to slow down the game (depending on how fast you can down a survivor).
I think they just need to add something to slow down the start of the game and everything will be fine.
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SWF play the survivor role so yes I would consider it a survivor issue.
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Then i dont agree with you. Since the problem doesnt come up very often, while it might still be a problem, its clearly not the reason for the point in question.
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Exactly. I went months not touching a totem or chest because if I left my gen for too long it'll have regressed to 0. Every game was a killer decked out with the standard gen kick build and survivors had no choice but to stick to their gens, and even that was a losing battle alot of the time. I've only just started chilling out a bit in current games. We've had months of conditioning us to prioritise gens at all costs.
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Just because something is rare it doesn't invalidate the issue, especially if the issue is becoming more prevalent. It's pretty rare to go against a pub stomper Blight but there are MANY threads about him. If you don't agree with me I couldn't care less. I don't want to see you crying in threads about rare issues though, I'll call you out for it.
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So, you say that the reason why a lot of killers feel bad with the game is because of teams they never encounter. As i said, the thing itself might be an issue, but its not the reason, since its not widespread enough. The fact that you either choose to ignore that or are unable to understand it makes any further discussion pointless anyway.
Have a nice day.
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This is about the time to release statistics just to see how game has changed with lot of the updates, I guess.
Even though I believe everything killer got in old stats has been practically negated by countless nerfs and buffs, we don't really have any meaningful data to back it up now.
even BHVR has stated something like half the playerbase are SWF, so problem is very well common enough.
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Oh so all of a sudden I haven't encountered that? Search up what the word never means before you use it in arguments. If something is an issue how is it not a reason, this is literally just waffling. Don't talk about facts when you're just making statements.
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Every slowdown perk except Deadlock and Jolt got nerfed and some faster gen speed perks were created since then.
I have played way before patch where they slowed down gens. It doesn't really feel slower than before imo.
Main combo before that patch was pop, ruin. There is currently not a perk that comes even close to those.
Pop is not bad, but it's way worse. Ruin got nerfed hard.
Pain resonance is decent, but random.
Jolt is good, but it's M1 killers only perk.
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Half of player base are SWF, but most of them sucks.
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I still think main issue are spawns.
If all survivors spawn together, you are usually fine (depends on map).
But if everyone spawns alone and get on different gen, then you are screwed.
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