So hook suicides weren't addressed

With the upcoming anti-camp thing, the hook escape attempt mechanic and the struggle state should just be removed.

No killing yourself on hook anymore, you can only do guarenteed escapes like the anti-camp mechanic and Deliverance.

Slippery Meat & Up the Ante can be reworked, probably to synergize with the anti-camp mechanic. Luck offerings can be removed or reworked to do something else as well.

yeah either the 4% will be taken out or the people who do it will be banned like in every game, that's called "griefing"

Sure, but it feels like you are putting the cart Infront of the horse. It could even be on of those things where you are just adding gas to the fire. If the game is in a bad state that this is such a problem I think you are just making it even worse. Feel like it would be a good idea to look at doing this if they can fix the core issues first and then look at punishments after to reduce it even further.

You're right... damn

I mean that's fair. IDK something does need to be done but I think punishing players right now isn't the direction to go when the game isn't fun. I've experienced this back on Spirit release. Devs took their sweet time doing any balance for Spirit and survivors ended up just gg go next anytime there was a Spirit. The situation we are in has been very rare for this game and any time something like this has popped up it was because there was a serious problem in the game.

But they are constantly f r u s t r a t e d, why would a normal person continue playing a game that makes them f r u s t r a t e d? That's because they're not frustrated, they just don't like when smth happens not as they wanted.

They saw that they're playing against nurse/huntress/dredge/etc? They rush to them and let them hook themselves even though the killer happen to be mid and you and 2 remaining teammates smh manage to do 4 gens but eventually fail because you lacked the input of the 4th surv.

They unintentionally bumped into trees/walls and got downed? They immediately kill themselves on hook. All these examples are based on my own experience and I can tell you that it's already becoming common. Ppl throw games over nothing just... because they can. They know that they won't be punished. This is just childish and can't be justified. At this point these brats can just uninstall and never come back, they'll do a favour for a normal players, players, that spend their time to queue/load in just for it to be thrown because of someone's tantrums.

Nope this sentiment is widely held by the this community almost singularly.

Lets just say that players under 50 hours can be excluded from the system I'm about to explain

1. Self unhooking gets removed besides deli
2. Players that don't preform conspicuous actions or even X amount of points start racking up a background penalty, Excluding when they are in chase. Lets just go with points because that's likely more consistent and can't be worked around really.
3. After enough of this penalty starts to add up, you get a warning and if this behavior is continued then you will receive a suspension.
4. After one players is dead the system deactivates for all remaining players.

Consistent afking for either side gets removed from the game. Playing for hatch/gates the entire game would cease to exist. The notion that players will stop acting this way even if the games fundamental problems are fixed is just wrong, it may decrease a bit but it will still happen.

What I just came up with may not be the best way, but a similar thing should be implemented into the game no matter what. I have never been apart of a community so convinced that players should be able to stop playing whenever they want, all the time and with no penalty.

"Survivors can play as selfishly or as altruistically as they like'

- BHVR.

...

I'll accept it being removed when we accept killers being able to slug everyone and leave them down needs to go too.

Bots have several glaring issues:

• They're as reliable as nemesis zombies ai, which are notoriously bad at times. They can, and will, get stuck on objects and get caught in infinite loops. And that's without outside influence, they'll do that 100% on their own.
• Bots are programmed to always make the same actions with the same stimulus, which is particularly abusable by actual players. For example, the bots in custom games will avoid a terror radius. So killers who manipulate that fact can cause bots to pace infinitely and do nothing. Which will be extra fun when there's only one survivor and one bot left in the game. It's naive to think that someone won't find a way to exploit the ai like this.
• Bots don't think, have no idea of strategy, and can't coordinate with actual players. Good luck breaking a killers 3 gen (that your bot probably created for you) with a bot teammates that runs at the first sign of the killer.
• You say the bots have wall hacks like that's a good thing. You do realize that's a huge downside, right? Like, actual players can and will use that information against killers in an understandably frustrating way. This isn't just bad for survivors, the system is terrible for the game as a whole.
• This address none of the reasons people DC. And worse, when the first person does disconnect, the remaining survivors have no incentive to stay if a bot is 'just as good as a player' according to the devs.

A system that would be much less abusable would be to just have the survivor's body stay in the match for about 30 seconds after the player disconnects. That preserves killer perks like on hook effects, blood warden, etc. but doesn't turn an asymm pvp game into a clown fiesta.

You started off with 'how bad can it be' and I gave you at least 5 ways the bots are actively worse than a dead or missing survivor.

My biggest concern is that this will be the final answer to addressing any actual issues. Implementing bots will just mean that is the answer moving forward, and the reasons for disconnects will continue to go unresolved. This is a 'temporary band aid' fix that will become permanent, and will define how the game is played, especially if the level of disconnects stays the same (although I expect this to make it worse).

The 'body' I mentioned isn't intending to address any of those issues. I expect things like game balance to be improved, overall quality and fun of games to be a focus for the devs, and ideally reduce the disconnects by fixing things.

Adding in bots is just washing their hands of it and literally telling people that if they don't like it they can just leave and the game will take care of it. I find that to be a fairly unhealthy way to address things.

I also find it to be healthy and perfectly fair to try and hold the devs accountable for the state of the game and want them to make it better in general.

not just that but they also got auto dodge vs projectile killers

Jesus Christ, I'm just explaining my thought process. I'm not trying to target or accuse you or anyone of anything implicitly or not.

Like I said, I find that stance to be completely healthy and reasonable.

The only thing you and I seem to disagree on is that the ai is an appropriate stop gap measure. I say it's absolutely not (and to be clear, this isn't saying or implying anything about anyone else's stance).

I've said my peace, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me, as I'm pretty sure I'm one of the only people concerned about the ai answer to this problem. I think it's a terrible idea, I think it's going to cause issues, and I think it's going to be a cause for complaints after it's implemented.

And at this point I'm tired of talking about it, since it's pretty clear this is the direction BHVR wants to go. Nothing I say will change that, so I'm respectfully bowing out of this conversation.

Once again

You are asking for a band-aid instead of focusing on the root of the problem

Why do people die on hook? Thats the first question to be addressed.

Its just a game anyways

They can still say the same quote

This might have been said here earlier, but there are too many comments to read, so apologies if this is a repeat.

Removing the 1st hook opportunity to unhook yourself would be the wrong correction to this problem. Especially with the changes that occured a while back with Borrowed Time becoming basekit, sometimes this is the right option. The 1st hook stage should not be altered.

What they could do is remove the skillchecks on the second hook. Then they're forced to endure the full hook.

The problem is if somebody does not want to continue they will always find a way. They just go AFK and wait for the killer to hook them. Of course a killer could see this and force a bleedout, but there's no reward for this (certainly not the reward they'd receive for a sacrifice) and any increase in raising a bleedout to reward the killer with more BP would just create a slug epidemic!

The only way is to make suicide attempts reportable. There are a lot of issues with this too.

My guess is that the only true way to complete this is to give the option to quit and replace themselves with a bot. Only to be applied on the hook. That's a little way off yet, I gather.

I think it isn’t reportable because you can’t really discern the ‘legitimacy’ of someone dying on hook. Are they just bad at hitting skill checks? Are they new and trying to escape (which the user guide does encourage)? Are they irritated because no one saved them in first hook? Were they tunneled? There are just too many variables that would need to be assessed to assign punishment for such a natural feature of the game.