No Base-kit Ubreakable!

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Huge_Bush
Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085

In the QA, it was confirmed that the Devs have no plans to implement a base-kit Unbreakable.

Good decision devs! Would have been a terrible experience.

https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/143hwgo/comment/jnajiss/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

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  • nars
    nars Member Posts: 1,124
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    I played on that PTB and while I adored never being slugged for the 4k again it did kinda break killer, probably for the best. maybe base UB when theirs 2 left.

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333
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  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    edited June 2023
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  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    Only thing that needs to be done is for the game to detect if anyone has a way to get up on their own and if not, speed up the bleed out time. Maybe give the survivors an option to concede the match when all 4 are down.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    Potato/po-tah-toe, it literally did the same thing Unbreakable did, which is allowed one to get back up.

    The game already has enough counters for slugging, all a survivor has to do is equip one of them.

  • EmmaFrostyEyes
    EmmaFrostyEyes Member Posts: 685
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  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    The survivors should be punished for not looping well and grouping up rather than splitting apart. They should also be punished for not coming in equipped with the counters for a play style they don't enjoy, just like killers are expected to come equipped to counter survivors doing gens as fast as possible and using strong loops. Survivors do not deserve their hand held when they perform poorly.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    Then ask the devs to speed up the bleed out time.

    Or don't group up.

    Bring in Unbreakable, No Mither or Soul Guard.

    Equip Tenacious so you can get away from the killer and reach a survivor who isn't slugged in a safe place.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    That is the game in a nutshell. Perks to counter things you don't like. It's the same for both sides.

    You can't compare being slugged to a generator getting completed on it's own. It's rather ignorant. The killer already takes a risk that you will either be equipped to get up on your own with a perk or smart enough to spread out and get picked up in a safe location.

    If you're down for more than a minute, that is your and your teams fault. You deserve to be punished, not have your hand held and given yet another chance (after all the chances the game already gives survivors) to win the match.

    Get better at looping is one of the many answers to this. If you can't waste enough of the killers time in order to let your teammates get picked up, that is a you problem, not the game. No one is asking you to loop the killer for half the match. If it takes your team half the match to get up, your team deserves to loose.

    You can't always have fun when you're losing. Not everything in a video game needs to be fun. The game just needs to provide "just enough" fun to keep you playing. It is impossible to make every aspect of a game like this to be a fun experience.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
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    I thought it was only even being considered because they couldn’t introduce the finisher mori without It as a counterbalance. If they did, a killer could slug three survivors, mori the last, then the remaining three would be instantly sacrificed—and it could also theoretically happen before any individual ‘anti-slugging’ perks proc’d.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    You are correct. That's what most survivor mains want. Doesn't mean they're going to get it. It used to be much worse for killers but the devs wizened up and made it harder for survivors to do their bullying. They had to because the queue times were skyrocketing since killer mains no longer wanted to play a game where the deck was completely stacked against them.

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 1,325
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    Nice. Scrap the finisher mori system too and call it a day.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,262
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    All these perks and your argument is for every survivor to use the same loadout forever because killer mains can't stop using excessive slugging. There is too much reliance on perks. I'm of the opinion many perks should be worked into the survivors basekit abilities. In all fairness, some perks can be worked into the basekit of killers too.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
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    The basekit counter to slugging is splitting up. Which already is the ideal strategy.

    If the killer slugs one person while nobody is around what they are essentially doing is trading the 10 seconds it takes to hook for one of the hook counters of the survivor.

    If the survivor is picked up and the killer isn't able to turn that 10 seconds into more pressure it's a net gain for survivors

    All slugging is is being on a moveable hook that doesn't count against your 3 strikes before you're out.

    The only time it's a problem is if all 4 are down and they still refuse to hook or when there are only 2 survivors left and the killer proxies the one who is down.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,434
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    If the killer hasn't picked you up in a min and neither has another survivor something has gone so severely wrong that there's nothing that can be done.

    I am biased but a all or nothing slug fest in end game is true peak dbd, but if you are on the ground for a min and there is more than just one other survivor it's on them. Blame the game for allowing survivors to play so selfishly, not force the game into a state of only chase, hook and repeat(i'm one to talk as that is exactly what I do these days but that's not realistic for most players).

    While my philosophy on it has become nearly neutral, you can't just make killers act like bots. When I started playing my thinking was 1. dh and IW counters chase, 2. UB counters slugging, 3 DS and BT counters tunneling. As I progressed in game knowledge the only "killer tactic" I was 100% ok with on both sides was slugging. Yes, slugging for the 4k can be boring but it is outright overshadowed by the team play and interactivity slugging in general allows.

    Again as I said before, I am against tunneling and camping now but when I started for the first 6 months paragraph three was my understanding of the game and by that point I was already better than majority of killer players.

    Just as you don't want to rely on perks and run the same thing every game, killers don't want to play the exact same way every single game. God knows bhvr wouldn't open up other play styles if all 3 were deleted.

    Slugging is fine, I can agree to an extent slugging for the 4k with 2 people left is cringe but any attempt to fix that will probably negatively impact fine gameplay.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,776
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    Huh ok but If they are still doing the mori then I wish the finisher mori system was just a simple optional final mori if I say have a slugged survivor in a area where all the hooks are broken from sacrifices

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
    edited June 2023
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    What's the point?

    Finisher mori literally gave no advantage at all, all it did was stop wasting BOTH survivors AND killers time, yet people somehow got mad at how it "encouraged slugging" even though capability of killers were no different from live server.

    They were ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst, it was ridiculous tbh.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,367
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  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    I am not using "Perfect Scenarios", I am using logical ones.

    Solo queues problem isn't with killers or the tactics they use, it has to do with terrible matchmaking and terrible teammates or just teammates who don't have the same goals in the match as the rest of the team.

    A total of 4 minutes isn't a period of long time. If you can't handle it use the counters that the game provides. If Solo Queue is too hard, make some friends with a similar mindset, that's what the option is there for.

    Plenty of things have been talked about for years, doesn't mean the complaint's are correct or that anything needs to be done. You or anyone not liking something doesn't mean it is inherently bad, especially since the devs have provided counters.

    You don't need a conditional way to pick yourself up. Unbreakable is a perk because it is a very powerful ability that can snowball the match towards the survivors victory. You just want a base-kit way to punish the killer for playing in a way you don't like without having to give up a precious perk slot, yet expect the killers to have to come in with builds dedicated to counter anything they don't like that survivors may do, like rush gens or use strong loops on strong maps like Garden of Joy or Borgo.

    There is no issue with slugging other than survivor entitlement, trying to whine and whine until the devs cave in order to force the killer to play in a way they want them to, yet will never ever consider how they themselves play might not be fun for the killer.

    Even if it's only 2 people left, you don't like being slugged? Bring in the appropriate perk, crawl away from the killer (use tenacity) and get picked up in a safe place, don't be the one that gets found first. You don't deserve a base-kit way to pick yourself up. You don't deserve a reward for losing.

    If you are downed and unable to do something, that is your fault. Come prepared.

    Killers find getting looped around the same loop over and over, only to be led to the next strong loop and then into the shack and to another loop extremely boring. Should the devs remove 50% of the pallets and vaults? It's boring for them, so the devs should hold their hands and not expect them to come equipped or get better, kinda like how you don't want to get better or come prepared.

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
    edited June 2023
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    Those "interaction" will not happen in any actual matches at all, especially when everyone try for win.

    So yeah that's not really a great reasoning, and yeah we don't need yet another method to freely DC neither, it's already harmful.

  • thrawn3054
    thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,897
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    It's impossible to bring perks to counter everything players don't like. If you could pick yourself up multiple times it would be too much but a single use version wouldn't have been bad.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 2,425
    edited June 2023
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    So I am a newb... but I dont understand the thought behind basekit Unbreakable at all... To state the obvious, the whole point of survivor is to work as a team to beat the killer... the killer meanwhile has to pressure survivors into coming away from gens. I don't think anyone wants to move away from this idea, where survivors all basically just play their own game and aren't forced to mix up their roles in the team throughout the game.

    To describe an ideal... survivors can team up on chase to make the chase harder for the killer at the cost of having less hands for gens, using flashlight saves, protection hits, saves on pallets, hook sabotaging, body blocking, etc, etc, and by doing so you're making the killer more likely to slug instead of them just going straight for the hook. This should, if done well, extend the chase considerably, and on a down can potentially buy more time as the killer must decide to hook or slug. If you've been a thorn in their side on chase for them, they will likely hook to ensure they make progress instead of getting run around even further.

    If they hook, you being nearby can buy wiggle time, force unoptimal hook walks, etc, so you're still causing problems. If they opt to slug, the downed survivor can heal themselves to near max and one of the other survivors can come in and make the save... or even if exceptionally well looped, the single survivor can make the save, the decision to slug against a good survivor costing even more than if they went for the hook. This is an example of great teamwork and awareness from survivors...

    Basekit unbreakable totally defeats that tactical/teamwork decison making on both sides, because survivors just run around in duos with meta perks and force the killer to always pick up and hook. There is never a need for another survivor to assess if they should leave gens to help, because the 1 distraction survivor is always enough... it would just limit the potential best choices available to each side and make the game dumber and less thoughtful overall...

    There may be other factors in the game that prevent this ideal decision making... but that doesnt mean giving up on this idea and just go "screw it, lets just dumb the game down". At least that's how I see it...

    But as I say... I'm a newb.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,970
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    My suggestion at the time was to invert the activation conditions.

    Instead of all survivors having unbreakable and the mori activating when all survivors are in the dying state...

    When all survivors are in the dying state, it's possible to recover from the dying state. This would obviously then deactivate the moment one survivor picks themselves up. This would explicitly only allow one survivor to get up when all survivors are down, which means it's directly targeting "slugging for the 4K" and not slugging in any other scenario.

  • Maelstrom808
    Maelstrom808 Member Posts: 684
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    That's absolutely false. I do this stuff all the time in my games. All you do with this is ensure that the killers that play fun and friendly never do so again.

  • EmmaFrostyEyes
    EmmaFrostyEyes Member Posts: 685
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    bruh you normally have good takes, what happened?😭😭

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
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    You are like one in millions, the difference is nonexistent.

  • BlueHorkew
    BlueHorkew Member Posts: 1,081
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    I agree that the base-kit UB was too strong and possibly abusable.

    But would the team be open to suggestions to nerf suggling like, giving base-kit endurance after a pick.up similar to unhooking, making the 4 min timer reset every time you are brought back to the injured state, or making the base recovert progress end at 99%, so picking someone of the ground is faster.

    Are any of this suggestions potential changes that could help. Of course, i don't know if they would be problematic, i am just wondering if there are other options that the devs are looking in into

  • GrimReaperJr1232
    GrimReaperJr1232 Member Posts: 1,656
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    Having the timer reset would be horrible. Imagine the killer dribbling a survivor until they escape just to down them again and hold the game hostage. That's the reason the timer never resets.

  • BarnesFlam
    BarnesFlam Member Posts: 654
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    I did not play that PTB, only watched it. What was so bad about it?

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,085
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    Hey Peanits! Have you guys considered or toyed around with the idea of speeding up the bleed out timer? I would think it’s a better option and would give the killer a sense of urgency that would feel more fair than letting a survivor pick themselves up.