Reducing Slugging
I think about 90% or more of slugging solely to bleed out survivors and not for tactical reasons would end if survivors stopped teabagging the Killer.
What I find so odd about these complaints about incessant slugging is that I don't see it. I do get slugged but it's for tactical reasons such as another survivor is nearby, there's no hook around, I deliberately went to an area where there's no hook, etc. That happens. But being slugged just so the Killer can be toxic? That's less than 1% of my games.
If you teabag don't be surprised if you spend a lot of time on the ground.
And just to forestall the most common statements.
'It's just a button in a video game' : That's a lie and you know it. It's done specifically to either taunt or tilt the Killer. If it were only a button in a video game it wouldn't taunt or tilt anyone.
'People shouldn't get butthurt over a crouch': That's gaslighting. If it were simply a crouch it wouldn't bother anyone or be done to tilt the Killer. It's a virtual middle finger.
'People are too sensitive': Entitlement. You don't get to determine how other people react.
'Slugging is so much worse than teabagging': Not really. Slugging does waste time but there is literally no in-game advantage in teabagging and sometimes a disadvantage to teabag. In other words, you'd rather harm your game just to try to make someone else feel bad. That's as petty and mean-spirited as slugging just to be toxic. If you feel your time is worth so much more than hurting someone's feelings get over yourself. Other people deserve respect as well.
'I'm just trying to get the Killer to chase me!': There are many other ways to do that. If you choose to teabag that's your choice but don't complain if you're slugged, facecamped and/or tunneled after.
'But it's fun!': Great, do it with your friends then or with other people that you know won't be offended by it. If you're playing against people you don't know don't be selfish. You know there's a controversy about it, you know people don't like it and view it as an insult so what would be the reaction in real life if you went around insulting strangers to have fun? You know what would happen so, if you don't want to be an immature ass, don't use the lack of immediate consequences in a video game as an excuse for behaviour you would never do in real life.
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When people complain about slugging, tunnelling, etc., they propose oftentimes unrealistic solutions that do away with X completely. But some things could be reduced, possibly to a noticeable degree, simply by people just being actual decent human beings.
I've never let someone bleed out to just be a jerk, but I have done it to make a point. Had a game yesterday, two people DC immediately. Okay, I thought, let the remaining Survivors do a bit of farming; bit of chasing here and there so I can get some points as well, break pallets, etc. Within 3 seconds, Clicky McTeabag breaks out the BMs. They spend the game bleeding out and I let the other guy get hatch. Even when it's to their detriment, I've seen people teabag out in the open, at weak loops, etc. I've seen so many people kill their chance of escape because a bit of BM was more important to them than reaching the next loop.
Same reason I tunnel, same reason a lot of people I know tunnel. Can't be toxic at the exit gate if you don't make it to the exit gate. The people that do that, I find, are also far less inclined to be toxic in endgame chat. I've had teams mouth off and be toxic after a 4E (along with accusing me of tunnelling and camping, etc., despite me never doing it), I've also had those same teams quiet as a church mouse when I faced them again and got 4K.
TL:DR; Negativity produces negativity, and not always to an insignificant degree. The community being better won't make inherent flaws in the game go away, but will go a long way to mitigating them.
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While it is correct that taunting will cause a reaction and therefore nobody that Tbags should ever be surprised or complain about gettingcamped/tunneled/slugged, saying that i"f you don't tbag, you won't get slugged" is false and naive.
It's the hen and egg cycle. One will increase the odds of the other but both happen on their own no matter of circumstances all the time.
I played explicitly friendly (no camping, tunneling and slugging only to avoid an early kill) and still got a hefty amount of tbagging and other BM.
And it is probably the same for peacefully playing survivors that don't taunt and still get camped/tunneled/slugged for whatever reason.
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But I bet it will happen way less, then if you try to piss of the killer.
I don't usually let someone bleed out, because it's waste of my time, but I have done it in past.
Headon squads, Sabo squads, Hiding squads, Power Struggle squads, abusing unhookable bugs, abusing Boil over, flashlight macros.
Those were just things that annoyed me and letting them bleed out is good message and I also keep them from doing it to other killer for some time.
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I've never Tbagged (intentionnally at least), I get slugged as much as the next survivor.
Thinking one side is toxic for no reason whatsoever while the other side being toxic is justified 90% of the time because "the other side surely started it" is absolute baloney.
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I am killer main with simple rule. I don't do what I don't like while playing as survivor.
This year we were slugged to death once, but it wasn't message. It was Russian streamer with whole build around it.
Even tunneling and camping is rare and reason is also simple. None of us use toolboxes or genrush perks.
I talk about from first hook tunneling / camping. Tunneling on one/two gens left is understandable for me.
If you have players using BNP and killer simply lose gens too fast because of it, they will tunnel. But I don't think you have right to complain there. You tried to speed up your objective, so will the killer.
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Teabagging is toxic but this is a real problem
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So everyone's debating whether teabagging is almost wholey responsible for scenarios where they get slugged, based off one person's personal experience?
You have no clue why individual killer players are slugging. You just assume it's because survivors are being toxic. Why? Why are survivor players inherently toxic but killer players are all good natured, lovely people, who only ever behave in an antisocial manner when provoked by a survivor?
You also mentioned gaslighting, right after you asserted that the primary reason survivors get bled out by killer players is because they teabag. And if survivors were not toxic to the killer then it would almost entirely stop. That's litterally gaslighting.
You shouldn't be offering people advice on how to not get griefed based purely off of a personal hunch. Especially when your personal hunch is that the person getting griefed probably deserved it.
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But I'm not saying if you don't teabag you won't get slugged. I'm saying being bled out just to be bled out will be significantly reduced if you don't teabag.
I also didn't refer to Killers as Killers get BMed far more than survivors. When I play Killer I also don't camp or tunnel and slug mainly to keep a Survivor in the game for longer just to avoid killing them early. I also get BMed but less than I would otherwise.
My point is that negativity breeds negativity. There is no reason to initiate BMing. Everyone is just playing a game to have fun and people can (and should) respect their opponents or, as a bare minimum, treat them as they would anybody else.
Except you're incorrect. When I play Killer, unless BMed, I don't camp, tunnel, and alternate hooks to make sure that nobody goes out early. Although it was on a different topic than BMing I've even posted videos of gameplay here where I've deliberately kept survivors around longer just so they could have a decent game. I still get teabagged and BMed.
There is more BM from survivors than from Killers. It's easier to do (teabagging can be done from the start while bleeding out requires a chase and downing a survivor first), people who are the type to BM are more likely to do it in a group against an individual, and while almost nobody defends things like bleeding out just to bleed out there are unfortunately many people who will attempt to defend survivors BMing or minimize it which makes it more acceptable in their minds.
There's also no reason to BM. There are no sides; everyone here is just here to have fun playing a videogame. Something that would go a long way to reducing BM would be not starting it in the first place.
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While I am one person I have played over 2.5K hours on both sides. And it's not a hunch. If you are rude to a person the other person is more likely to be rude back. Are you attempting to argue that?
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Another bias topic and wrong both sides are just as toxic equally and people need to stop saying its mostly survivors, how many games I play and I dont t bag or click at the killer but get tunnel/camp/bm on hook for doing a good loop or mind game and specially cause am a streamer which we KNOW killer mains are one of the most bias people towards streamers.
Killers do not slug only for being t bag, there are reasons like bad hook spawns totally legit I get that. There killers who are just plain sweaty and has a kit that purposely is use to do slugging(nurses/twins/wraiths/spirit). There is the common and most annoying slugging where its just 2 survivors and killer slug third person and tries to find the 4th one for their 4k
I can ask why must killer smack on hook/face camp/tunnel or even bleed out the person that mind game them and its not like there being toxic, they are just doing what to do not be killed?
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But there is more BM from the survivor side (Killers shouldn't BM either) and it's normally (but not always) started by survivors. There is no reason to hit someone on hook more than once (the once is usually just to stop the screaming) or bleed them out just to be a jerk but there is also no reason to teabag at the exit gates or at pallets. How many times does at least one survivor teabag at the exit gates versus how many times does the Killer hit on hook or bleed out just to bleed out?
I'm not saying there's a greater percentage of people in either role but there is objectively more BM coming from survivors than Killers. There are four times as many survivors as Killers in any one game. How could there not be more BM from the survivor side?
Also, I don't refer to one side or the other as a side as, ideally, players would play both roles. It would increase their empathy for what the other side experiences and benefit them by improving their gameplay as well.
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That is true. I'm defining teabagging here as the 'you suck and f off' expression. Unfortunately without many emotes crouching repeatedly is the easiest form of expression but it can also mean thank you, good job, please show mercy, please heal me, etc as well as the f you usage. I should clarify that whenever I bring it up. I'm referring to at pallets in a chase and that type of teabagging when it's done specifically to taunt the Killer and make the Killer feel bad.
Post edited by TheSubstitute on1 -
Anecdotally I never teabag and I'm basically never slugged. Maybe 1/50 games. No exaggeration.
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Well that's simply untrue. I can go a dozen games as survivor and not have a killer hit on hook or head shake or whatever.
What I can't do, is go more than a single game as killer without survivors waiting at the exit gates for me to watch them leave, slamming their Ctrl keys the whole way. Waiting until the very last second while I'm perched in a corner watching YouTube or whatever. It's the most juvenile garbage imaginable and pretending like both sides are equivalent in it is just flat out wrong.
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lol well i guess if you only BM because you were BMed first surely it's what everyone does.
For real though, if you play only or mostly killer I'm not sure how you know how other killers behave, and if you do play a certain amount of survivor I can't fathom how you would actually believe this whole "survivors are toxic and killers are only responding" bs.
Finally, you are right: there are no sides. The same people BMing you on one side are most likely the same people BMing you on the other side, so it's clearly not a question of who's worst, who started what and 'if this side stopped surely the other would' (they wouldn't).
Welp, lucky you lmao. I don't get slugged very often but it's probably between 1/20 and 1/30 or something if I had to guess. On the other hand i don't know if it's because I play Demogorgon and play nice or if I'm just lucky but I genuinely very rarely get tbagged. Like, I get tbagged more often by survivors offering me their items or for other non-toxic reason than I get tbagged at the exit gates or mid-chase or whatever, and by quite a margin. I think these things probably also depend on MMR, server and time of playing (and also way of playing probably, I'm a chill killer so survivors rarely get very competitive against me).
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I just can say you never can be sure 100% what does trigger something in people and what not. It is impossible as long as you do not know people that good that you can understand why things trigger so much.
Not in a video game nor in real life. When people seem to think they do know what does trigger something in other people and what not, that are liars in my opinion, because they really seem to think every human on this planet has exact the same feeling world and that is absolutely selfish and blind.
I do not use CTRL for being toxic to others and when people really think that is not true they do not deserve any of my respect until they think twice about it. I can not describe how much that makes my brain hurt reading such a nonsense.
The much better question is: Why people get affected by it so much and why this is so a big thing at all for some people especially in a virtual world?
I do understand that that can trigger things in others, but people can not expect that I can act in a way what makes it avoiding to trigger something in others without blocking myself all the time, because I am simply not the same person. Things what triggers myself doesn't mean that has to trigger others. I will not start blocking myself just because there is a possibility that something goes wrong. I am a person who loves acting free and that would prevent it. Forget it.
I t-bag sometimes but never with the intention to harm anyone in any way*. That's always relating to the gameplay and I do not aim onto the player behind the character. It is more a way to show "I am ready for a chase" or it's meant like "I have no fear, no matter if you chase me or not".
Besides, I always try to apologize when I have the feeling something went wrong because of me, at least I try to.
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I've posted a lot of survivor play and, from my posting history, it's clear I do play a lot of survivor. I also don't BM on either role and one of the common experiences of people that play both roles is that Killers experience more BM than survivors.
You're also not comprehending my entire argument. I'm not saying there's aren't toxic Killers; I even stated I get bled out by somebody being toxic about one in a hundred games. What I'm saying is that if survivors stopped teabagging Killers then the number of bleed outs would diminish.
How many times does a Killer bleed out survivors just to bleed them out without provocation? Very little. How often does at least one survivor teabag a Killer at a loop or at the exit gates? You know the answer to that.
If people want less bleeding out as BM then start respecting their opponents and don't initiate BM and stop gloating at the exit gates.
That's good you apologize but you don't get to control how people react. If I do a thumbs up that means that's great where I live. In Greece and the Middle East it means 'up your'. I'm not going to argue that people in Greece or the Middle East should accept my interpretation as that would be ridiculous and selfish. What I would do is not give a thumbs up to anyone from Greece and the Middle East as that's basic human decency.
It's the same thing with teabagging. You do not get to control how the other person interprets the action. It is offensive to many people and by doing it you would be arguing that your desire to do it is more important than how the other person reacts. That would be selfish and entitled so just don't do it if you truly don't want to upset anyone.
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That's good you apologize but you don't get to control how people react.
That is absolutely true but do you know what? I do not even want to control how anyone acts because that's manipulation.
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Woopie for you , you cant speak for everyone else, as with me both side is toxic in the same and everyone gets different experience for my swf and I arent toxic and we dont t bag or click unless the killer was the first to BM =which is hitting multiple times just cause they got looped or initially tunnel. I seen in solo q if doing solo que a personrun the person didnt t bag but the reason they start to DO it is simply because the killer came back to the hook to tunnel. Do not act if killers do not initiate bming first. Some people will t bag when the killer insists to tunnel.
Also people just need to let go of their ego for a silly video game, killer bm me oh cool am laughing that means I made you angry, and your wasting your time while then (gen rushers) slams the gens. survivors t bagging oh well i just go around and break drop pallets or what not and not even go to the exit gates lol or if am ghosty I do it back and get a kick out of it really. As a final meme=please hit me on the hook and I have calm spirit on LOL.
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I'm not controlling how anyone acts. I said react and that's what you're attempting to control. If you know something upsets people it's common human decency to not do it to them and, if you don't know your audience, not to so something that is likely to upset someone.
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You need to reread my posts so you actually understand what I'm saying.
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There's more tbagging than bleeding out because they're not equivalent in any way. Tbagging is literally pressing a button and doesn't have any consequence, bleeding out someone not only requires work but it also wastes 4 minutes of the killer's own time. You can't bleed out someone mid-game without basically giving up the game.
One is a taunt and the other is a 4min time out for both players, most killers don't bother punishing tbaggers this way because it's not worth it.
Of course if people stopped tbagging the number of bleed outs would diminish (and I agree it would be good), but the ones getting bled out less would be the ones who deserved it in the first place. Survivors who get bled out for no reason would still get BMed as much. So like, I don't know who your post is aimed at because survivors who tbag don't care enough to stop, those who don't can't do anything about it and apparently you don't want to stop punishing survivors (which is fine, you do you).
Also, everyone's experience is different. I've personally experienced more BM from killers than survivors for at least a few months, and I get bled out way more than 1/100 games. On the other hand I rarely get tbagged (even at the gates).
Finally, I'm not sure how survivors tbagging at the exit gates relates to this, considering if they're escaping you can't bleed them out, unless you take it out on the next innocent batch of survivors or bleed survivors out preemptively. But then it's just the chicken and the egg, survivors BM because they assume the killer will tunnel or slug or whatever and killers BM because they assume survivors will gloat if they win (and it'd be silly to argue about which side started it first).
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I do not because it makes no sense.
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I already covered your arguments in my original post.
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Do you read your own sentence at all? You said it again, you wanna control a reaction. Action or reaction doesn't matter. It is still manipulation because you wanna control someone.
Attempting... to... control... What is an attempt to control? You wanna control something. You wanna control a certain situation.
You can not know something what makes people upset when you do not know this person at all. You just can guess what happens, nothing more.
I'm absolutely stunned how people can't see this.
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Probably because you're completely wrong and the person who can't see it but you do you. As a direct analogy if I said people shouldn't give other people the middle finger because it's offensive to many people is that attempting to control people? In case you still don't get it the middle finger is teabagging in this case.
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Slugging is for losers.
Change my mind.
Oh ... i forgot the tryhards 4k entitled.
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because as we know killers shouldn't kill
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It's not really difficult system imo.
-I am not going to do things I don't like when others do.
-if someone does a thing I don't enjoy, I will do something they are unlikely to enjoy.
Did they know it will annoy me? I would say usually yes. There are some generic things you can do. Teabagging is probably most known.
I hated flashlight clicking more for epilepsy tho.
If it was specific thing for me, then they had no idea, but simply unlucky for them. It also didn't have to be them, I treat everyone as a team. Again, unlucky...
There are things that deserve bleed out for sure. Mainly actions to deny hooking in first place.
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It's nice while i was about to answer this thread i have another slug match.
How fun it was :)
So nice i guess BHVR gave us another job to do beside gens ... wait on the ground for 10 minutes.
PS: It's not SWF it's just DUO with a friend while the other was lauching.
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I had a match against a Legion today. They continued to slug Mikaela and hover over her body and follow her as she crawled and if we got her up they went right after her again just to continue doing it.
Her crime? Beats me… maybe they just hate Mikaela. Maybe it’s because she played the Red Forest offering and they didn’t like that. Maybe she outplayed them at one point and they got upset. None of those are good reasons. People on both sides are always going to do things you don’t like, but for some reason everyone wants to take everything personally and feel entitled to make others miserable because of it. That’s not okay.
There’s also just a chance that the Legion was just awful and wanted to single someone out. Some of you might not see slugging very often but some people see it all the time and very often the reason for doing it is either a) they’re trying to get an easier game or b) they want to ruin other people’s fun.
I’d also like to point out that:
*While I don’t teabag, there can be a tactical advantage in doing so. You can use it to distract the killer especially if they’re tunneling someone. Probably shouldn’t be tactical but given how offended people get it can be useful to take the heat off of someone else.
*Survivors don’t have a lot of ways to communicate. I’ve thanked killers the same way I’ve thanked other survivors - by using the crouch button. In most of my cases the killer was able to understand me. However, you could very well be griefing someone who wasn’t trying to be rude.
*It’s not okay to grief someone because they’re running a certain build or perk that you don’t like. Sabotaging hooks, blinds, stuns, etc. are all integral parts of gameplay for survivors. If you feel the need to tunnel and slug me because I was able to get value out of Head On, Blast Mine, Boil Over, etc. then you’re not only oversensitive but being unfair. What it sounds like is that you just don’t like losing or being outplayed and instead of wiping your shoulder and moving on you feel the need to protect your fragile ego by trying to make an example out of someone.
*How would you like it if I went out of my way to bully your killer just because I don’t like playing against them? Or if you had a perk I really don’t like? First of all, you wouldn’t and second of all, outside of a SWF it’s near impossible to actually “bully” a killer due to the imbalance in power. Losing a survivor because someone else blinded you is not being bullied; if everyone just ran around with flashlights trying to blind you while ignoring their objectives… sure, but even then you stand a better chance of doing something about it then a survivor would against a killer.
In short, slugging can be tactical if you have to stop and chase another survivor away especially if they have a flashlight or the like but I wouldn’t consider that “slugging” in the same way that running into the same survivor by chance isn’t “tunneling.” Slugging is pure griefing and saying it wouldn’t happen if ppl didn’t teabag is not only false, but stupid.
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It would happen less. Saying teabagging is tactical is both disingenuous and stupid as it only works on brand new Killers. It's griefing as is slugging for no reason. It is completely possible for two actions to both be wrong.
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I even said it shouldn’t be tactical but you can’t deny that it can be. On a side note, had a Ghost Face teabag at me while I was on death hook. I don’t remember teabagging him first so I guess your entire theory falls apart.
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Not really. It's sort of like humping which is just as detestable as teabagging. There are people who are 12 or have the mentality of 12 year olds who BM. If you read posts instead of just skimming them then you would have read that I said being abrasive to people provokes other people to be abrasive back. Unless, of course, you're attempting to argue that's not the case. Are you? If so, then which part of being insulting and BMing other people causes other people to insult and BM back do you disagree with?
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