Made for This Just Proves Survivors can't have Good Perk
Because it always gets a lot complaints.
First CoH and now Made for This.
And then people are asking why survivors are using same perks over and over again. Because you are not letting devs to make good survivors perks. Whenever they do, you are asking nerf immediately.
Nobody complains about Teamwork perks or 80% of survivor perks tho because they are just garbage.
Comments
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Well, you aren’t wrong. Survivors always tend to come up short with perks in new chapters.
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Yes. Survivors are getting good perks very rarely and when they get, we are seeing a lot people are complaining about it.
I hope the developers don't listen to these pointless complaints. But i know they will because fun can't exists in DbD.
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To that same token, players have complained endlessly about Call of Brine and/or Eruption when it was strong not that long ago. There’d be endless board topics on Eruption alone.
It’s not that the perk is good. I want there to be good survivor perks too. There’s just a difference between good and overtuned. There’s no reason a survivor perk should be able to give you a decent Haste buff (yes, 3% IS a big difference), on top of an Endurance effect where the only requirement is to be injured (which will happen every single game multiple times) and not exhausted.
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Eruption was bad designed perk. It did nothing to SWF but hurt solo-q so much.
CoB was fine tho but i think 3-gen was problem and they would not fix it.
I don't think 3% haste makes this perk busted but alright. People are also complaining about SB and Lithe too. These perks busted too? Or we just should admit the fact? People just want to nerf everything other side have.
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Maybe because it is not only a 'good' perk.
You can't really blame for people complaining about a MOM level perk,it just too broken.
And by the way, survivor usually got useful perk nearly every patch, the only reason you may not see people running new perk is because survivor really has too much choice right now but only has four perk slots.
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Name one good perk after Mikaela chapter. Because CoH was the only meta perk from newest chapters. After her, non of survivors brought any meta perk until we got Gabriel.
People just hates when survivors gets one good perk.
And no, MfT is not even close to og MoM. You are just overacting.
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I don't know.
Overzealous?
Reactive Healing?
Reassurance?
Hyperfocus?
Potential Energy?(this one is tricky one, I don't know why nobody used it to counter 3 gen killer.)
Fogwise?
Teamwork: Power of Two?
Blood Rush?
And made for this of course.
All of them are useful perk, some of them are even in my build right now.
Unless the meaning of great perk for you is Op game breaking perk,then yes dev should not make any new "GREAT" perk.
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Non of these perks are close to being meta. And most of them are garbage. That's why you are not seeing them in trials so much. Because they have a lot pointless weaknesses.
Reassurance, Fogwise and Hyperfocus are the only good perks (B-tier max) but even they are not great.
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But CoH was totaly broken tho. And still after 2 nerfs it was kinda OP.
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I see ,so just like i said, what you wish for is OP game breaking perk like MOM, COH ,Old Ds.
Then yes,i think survivor can't and shouldn't have "great perk".
Jesus.......
Just for curious, can you list the "great" perk for killer,after Mikaela patch?i kinda wanna know.
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Deadlock, Gift of Pain, PR, CoB (before nerf), Nowhere to Hide, Hubris
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So Pr and CoB got nuke.
And the rest of them i think is the same level of reassurance (B- in your words)
Why are the suddenly becomes great perk for you?
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I'm not even using MFT anymore (tried it for a few days, prefer exhaustion perks) but if it gets nerfed I'm done buying future survivors. If the complaints just happen once in awhile then sure, I'd listen and make an effort to understand, but I can't take them seriously anymore when they're happening every single chapter. It's genuinely a case of certain vocal people wanting survivors to have nothing decent. And if it's not new perks it's old perks, some that have been around for several years, that literally no one complained about until recently all of a sudden.
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Deadlock is A tier perk. PR is still so good, A tier perk. CoB was meta for long period.
Rest is i agree. But they are good perks.
So killers are getting good and great perks a lot. While survivors got only 2 meta perks in this period: CoH & MfT
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Who is using Overzealous? There's no Hex meta.
I've tried to use Reactive healing and it's unusuable in current meta of Sloppy Butcher, useless perk 9/10 matches.
Reassurance is ok-ish perk, that never solved the problem of face-camping Bubba (whose range you have to be in to activate it anyway).
Hyperfocus is never used alone, so unless you bring a build dedicated to a specific playstyle it doesn't see play.
They don't use it cause if you get hit you just lost 1 gens progress. it's a risky perk especially for solo survivors.
People probably use Alert over Fogwise, that's why it's not seen often (at least by me).
Teamwork requires two people to co-ordinate, if you're solo goodluck transmitting your bran waves to your teammates.
I don't even think I've seen Blood Rush.
3 of the perks you listed (and maybe even Overzealous) require teamwork to work as intended (Reassurance, Potential Energy, Teamwork). If your teammates are bringing Inner Healing good luck finding your totems. So for solo they're not even reliable.
Made for this is a great self-reliant perk if you are a good looper.
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Survivor perks you mentioned usage rates:
Overzealous - 1.04%
Reactive Healing - .35% (lol at this one even being mentioned)
Reassurance - 3.35%
Hyperfocus - 1.51%
Potential Energy - .74%
Fogwise - 1.12%
Teamwork: Power of Two - .32%
Blood Rush - .54%
Killer perks since that time that all have higher usages rates:
Deadlock - 11.78%
Hex: Plaything - 4.44%
Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance - 14.75%
Call of Brine - 5.21%
Nowhere to Hide - 10.24%
(Stats from Nightlight)
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Thing is a lot of people complain so much about new perks that don’t ever see use once in practice. Remember the Resident Evil chapter when Counterforce was deemed OP? Yeah I remember that, the perk wasn’t changed once since that PTB and no one uses it.
Same thing with the most recent Built to Last buff.
Also in Portrait of a Murder, Overcome and Exponential were getting a ton of complaints, yet Overcome now is one of the least used exhaustion perks and Exponential is way to situational to even be decent. Also from that same chapter, killers got Pain Resonance and Pentimento, two perks I would consider meta in today’s DBD.
See what I mean?
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What a terrible argument to make.
"Most survivor perks are bad therefore it's ok to have a few broken perks"
You should be wanting all perks to be balanced and usable. Not for a select few to be broken and the rest to be trash.
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That is not what the OP was saying at all. They want survivors to have a lot of good perks, it’s just that a lot of them that are brand new or have a buff get unnecessary complaints and then the devs usually act on it or the perk ends up being not usable in general. We want both sides to have a good set of perks to use.
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That's the point of post. BHVR is keep releasing garbage perks nobody uses. It's so rare we are getting good perks for survivors and when we got, people are complaining about them.
MfT is not even busted, you can still catch survivor. Because killers have powers to use in chase and Bloodlust exists as well.
The only problem i see, haste perks should not be stackable like how endurance perks are not stacking.
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People want build diversity from survivors but want every perk that is a strong contender to older perks nerfed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I promise you if hope/resilience/adrenaline were released today it'd be the same thing.
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problem is not good perks. it is that survivor base-kit too strong for any good perks. with how survivor base-kit power-level is, survivor need to be itemless and perkless for majority of killer cast but being perkless is not fun for the survivor. that is why their perks are bad.
the funny part is that killer who need perks have crap perks.
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Killers have pretty good perks atm.
Corrupt, Pop, PR, Deadlock, DMS, No Way Out, Devour Hope etc.
And i don't think survivor base-kit is that strong anymore. They changed meta to be needed more altruism which is bad for solo survivors.
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Tbf CoH on release literally killed off basically half of the roster with how fast it was especially with old healing and medkits. Wraith went from pretty high tier to middle pact lower half for instance. And DH took like what 4 years to finally die? Survivors perks can last a fairly long time balance wise. Ds took 2 years. CoH pretty close. DH 4. Adrenaline 2. SB is still kinda meta. But yeah this perk idrm. Just the stacking can get ridiculous and movement speed as a concept needs to be closely monitored perk wise.
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Just like I said these perk being unused is not because they are bad,is becasue survivor has too many perk can used.
In the other hand, Perk like Deadlock that nobody used it before can be in meta now just showed how pathtic killer's meta right now.
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Reassurance isn’t good. With camping situations you basically sacrifice a health state to buy a teammate 16 additional seconds on the hook. It’s not worth it. Kinship is better and no one thinks that is a good perk. Hyperfocus only brings value if you have a full build devoted to it. I like Fogwise but it is outclassed by other aura-reading perks. It’s only reliable if you run it in a build that’s dedicated to getting great skillchecks on gens. The rest of the perks he named are pretty bad. More weaknesses than benefits. These killer mains have a low bar for what makes a survivor perk ‘good’ because they don’t want survivors to have good perks. That’s why every one of the perks they listed have extremely low usage rates.
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Deadlock has always been a popular perk.
Post edited by EQWashu on6 -
Can't have good perks? Allow me to name some unpopular/off-meta perks
- Inner Strength/Inner Healing
- Botany Knowledge (Or Desperate Measures if you don't like the medkit debuff)
- We'll Make It
- No One Left Behind
- Soul Guard
- Tenacity
- Quick and Quiet
- Hyperfocus
- Fogwise
- Distortion
- Deja Vu
- CoH is still good
- Any Means
- Alert
- Borrowed Time (not needed, but it's still amazing if the killer tries to outwait the base 10 seconds)
- Dark Sense
- Detective's Hunch
- Troubleshooter
- Built to Last
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killer perks are pretty weak jokes. None of these perks when I play survivor feel oppressive to play against. Some of these perk are pretty bad too like 30 second DMS? Most of the killer cast cannot even walk to the gen to block it. I do not understand why killer uses it. It is likely because they have nothing better to use. its same for all other perk listed. there is just nothing left for killer to use.
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OP’s point is that in the last several survivors haven’t received good perks. A lot of the perks you’ve mentioned (that are good; most are situationally average at best) are older perks that have been grandfathered in. I think you really reached with that list too because not a single one of those perks is META.
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Counterforce op? Seriously?
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"Allow me to name some unpopular/off-meta perks"
But okay. Recent chapters. Let's do some comparison for perks that are meta from this year's chapters.
Last Transmission
Survivor - Made for This
Killer - Nothing. (Don't tell me Forced Hes is a meta perk)
Tools of Torment
I don't think anyone got anything out of this...
Forged in Fog
Killers - Nowhere to Hide? It's fallen out a bit since the gen kick meta nerfs. But let's count it.
RE2
Survivors - Reassurance (and Hyperfocus but that's difficult to use)
Killers - Nothing. In fact, one of the perks got nerfed from PTB.
So killers got 1 perk that had its value diminished with a meta shift, and survivors have gotten 2-3. depending on your PoV.
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Yep Counterforce got complained about a ton during the RE chapter PTB. It was during a time when hexes were still extremely prevalent and people were worried this perk would destroy hexes.
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I say it's fine, there are more High-Tier Survivor perks than there are killer perks, not to mention survivors are all the same movement speed and don't have powers, I think killers should have a higher variety to support different abilities and whatnot. Not to mention the recent nerfs towards almost all slowdown perks, it's a 2-way thing.
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Main difference being, people were complaining killers were running around with 1000% gen regression that gave difficult skill checks and locked gens on a single build and in this case people are complaining over a worse version of an exhaustion perk that isn't even compatible with other exhaustion perks and only ever activates after getting hit at least once.
The toolbox regen perk is op, the 3% move speed is op, second chances like Dead Hard are OP, playing with 1 less perk throughout the entire match to save your ass in end game with Decisive was also OP... so what exactly do people want survivors to have? Like, just run around perkless and drop dead on sight?
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Nah run no mither, we know killers love that perk
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Saying this perk is MoM level tells me you clearly never played when MoM was meta. This perk is nowhere close to it.
Holy hyperbole.
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Reassurance and Hyperfocus are not meta perks. You are seeing them maybe time to time. But meta means, you will see them in most of matches which is not true for perks you mentioned.
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CoH was one of the most stupidly broken perks released on the survivor side along with MoM
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Hyperfocus, sure, but Reassurance? Non-meta? I... don't have anything more to say on this.
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Nowhere to Hide currently has a higher usage rate (10.24%) than any of the survivor perks mentioned combined.
Made for This - 2.17%
Reassurance - 3.35%
Hyperfocus - 1.51%
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Yes, Reassurance is not meta. Because range is so small for get value from it. For activate it, you need to give health state to killer. This perk is not that good.
You are not seeing it like WoO, Lithe, SB, Adrenaline, OTR etc. Reassurance is good but not that good.
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I’ve mentioned this before. Whatever your opinion on MFT is it’s funny that every chapter has an “overpowered” survivor perk that very rarely ends up like that
For the people, soul guard, Wiretap, Hyperfocus, Blood rush, overcome etc. People need to wait and give things a chance before the devs panic nerf it (parental guidance for example)
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Maths around MFT are around this forum and ypu should take a look.
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I saw this post and i disagreed with them. Math is good but it's just theory of what possible can happen. And it ignores killers have powers and use them on you. RNG can effect your value as well.
Like i said, math is amazing. But it's not reality of what happens in trials.
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Becuz most meta perks are done to avoid being camped or tunneled and rush gens.
Killer meta are around gen regression.
Dont you think the issue is killer camping and tunnel?
Why they do it? Becuz its easier to manage a game with 3 persons 2 gens than any other scenario cuz gens literally fly.
Im agree to nerf all regression and put heavy anti camp tunnel mechanics if we put pallets who need skill rather than run on a loop,drop pallet and shrink maps but it must be balanced around m1 killers.
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I'm laughing here reading that survivors can't ever have good perks. All i see in my survivor games are GOOD or GREAT perks.
Adrealine. Great perk.
We'll make it Great perk
Resilience Great perk
Prove Thyself Great perk
Off the Record Great Perk
Do i need to continue? Survivors have multiple great perks. That is a small list i named. Made for this has broken the game for many killers. I've seen it personally destroy multiple killers in endgame when my teammates (soloQ btw) have ran the killer minutes because they just couldn't catch them. Haste stacking is a massive issue and i don't think 3% haste should come that easily. Oh you are injured here you go small speed hacks for you.
Killers have good and great perks too, but i'd argue they have less variety than survivors. Killers can't go around and have fun with off meta silly niche perks since they most likely will get destroyed. Survivors can do this more easily since there are 4 of them and 16 perks all together so it doesnt impact the game as much if 1 person has 1-2 silly perks on.
Again im nowdays a survivor main. I tried playing few killer matches when singularity came out shrugged and wen't back to survivor. Its more chiller and i can enjoy my games more.
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First read and then write. Maybe stop laughing, so you can see posts more clear.
I said survivors are not getting good new perks and when they get, people are complaining about them. Non of perks you wrote are new.
Try again.
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I read the whole post and the comments, and there was some talk about survivors having less good perks and less pickrates on certain perks than killers have, which is the thing that made me laugh.
Survivors are getting good perks all the time, are they meta probably not but only way you can get meta perks is to have a busted perk like adrealine right. Is this what we want? Survivors want perks that make the game easier for them like old CoH? Heck even the new CoH is still good. Getting a good perk is ok but getting a busted perk like made for this is not ok. It's ok for killers to complain about a perk thats making chases last too long or even catching feel impossible.
I'd also say that Renatos perks are pretty good. Background player is really good perk for altruistic survivors that like to help out people. Bloodrush is good if you can use it in endgame. Fogwise is a really handy perk especially for PC players that can hit great skillchecks easier. So i'd say multiple "newer" perks are usable and very good, but are they meta no. Meta perks tend to the the strongest and the most unhealthiest for the game.
Survivors have complained about killers perks and most of them have gotten nuked down so much no ones using them. Killers havent gotten any good new perks eather. I'd say the last good one was Nowhere to Hide and distorsion being in every game nowdays even that perk seems pointless.
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As a Legion main, MFT has been pretty bad for me. I've ended up dedicating 2 perk slots to force exhaustion (current build being Blood Echo, Dead Man's Switch, Fearmonger and Thrilling Tremors) but there have still been cases where there's been a noticeable difference in how long a survivor can drag out a chase. I've gone against a few people stacking MFT with other haste perks and it's absolutely miserable, limiting haste to one effect at a time (whichever is strongest) would seriously help.
Also why is Dark Theory (a perk heavily limited by its set up time and range) weaker than MFT?
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