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How should emps be tweaked?
I wanna know what people think, and generally get a viewpoint of how people are experiencing them.
Singularity is a good killer, and he had tons of potential, especially since more people are finding that his optimal playstyle doesn't revolve around placing every single pod around the gens.
But there's certain situations in which a lot of people are finding the emps to be too oppressive and they often feel like they have no power, so how should emps be tweaked?
It HAS to be just a slight tweak though. If emps are flat out nerfed, the Singularity will quickly become one of the most oppressive killers in the entire game. Up there with Nurse and Blight. So how do we tweak things so that Hux doesn't feel miserable to play, but not OP either?
Comments
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Crates need to be looked at. Right now they just passively build new EMPs when they don't have an EMP inside.
This means there's little reason to not take and hold an EMP, because it starts the process of making a new EMP immediately.
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Smaller range overall.
Need to be within 2 meters of another Survivor to cleanse their Slipstream.
Reduce channel time to half a second, require Survivors to be stationary or walking to use.
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They should only charge up to 80-90% passively, and have a timer before they expire if being held. That way they cannot be picked up in chase and aren't just a permanent counter. But can still be used in chase and can still be picked up freely.
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My suggestions:
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While the safest way would be to reduce the radius of the blast, I think reducing the effect of the EMP based on distance from the target could also work. Keep the same radius but make it so pods caught at the edge of the blast are disabled for X% less time. That way it requires Survivors to get closer for maximum effect but they still have a lesser option in a pinch.
Crazy solution: you're detonating an incredibly powerful EMP right next to your own skull. Pretty sure that's going to negatively impact the pink squishy thing, that relies on electrical impulses to function, that you keep inside of it. Inflict Blindness and Oblivious for X seconds whenever you use an EMP. Make using the thing actually cost something, and make using multiple in a single chase a risk rather than flat reward.
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Let survivors work with the crates all the time. Even if one is working on printing a new item another crate is available for use. While pushing the button is a great idea, I never required to do that as a free EMP was always available somewhere.
I like 2 ideas mentioned above: being stationary while using it and that the distance affects disability.
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smaller range would be problematic. You don't want to allow Lerry to get Biopods on places which couldn't be affected by EMP.
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The range right now covers much to large an area.
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EMP range is 10 meters, Larry can shoot up to 5 meters, so it can be reduced.
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Thanks for the suggestions here, we do have a few changes for the EMP's in particular ready for an upcoming hotfix. We'll be looking at reducing the EMP crates themselves to 4 per map, the generation time increased to 100s (currently 90s), and Survivors will also be slowed whilst charging an EMP by 10% as well as increasing the EMP charge time itself to 2.5s from the current 2s.
Duration of the pod disabling from an EMP will also be decreased down to 45s. There's also some score changes as we noticed Devious points were a little on the low side.
How do those sound?
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seems good enough
It is fun killer otherwise, so this might get Larry into decent spot.
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Maybe make EMP charge time be changed to 4 seconds instead of 2.5 seconds.
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This all sounds like a wonderful start and I'll be interested to see how it affects him!
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I'm interested for everyone to test it out and see how it feels and how it plays, I think it definitely addresses the major feedback that we're seeing which is that the EMP's are too strong right now for how quickly they are gained.
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I think due to the amount of changes at once, it's wiser to do it things like that in increments, with numbers it's not too difficult for us to get those through quite quickly if need be. And better to go in at the lower amount given the number of changes so that we can see where an issue lies if something doesn't work as intended. That's not to say the time won't increase again - it's not set in stone, and we can make further changes if it becomes necessary.
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Yes they should, it is quite unfair how often they spawn and can be used. I feel like I have no power becuase every single damn time i get a good angle or a slipstream going, the survivor always has a EMP ready. They need to nerf the EMPs, by making them spawn slower and maybe have a speed penalty on use or something. I don't even want to play this killer, after being excited to try it all month. I want my money back to be honest becuase I do feel I have wasted it on buying this chapter. I want to have fun and I don't mind being outskilled and losing but this is flat out unfun and frustrating.
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Is the possibility to make the printer crates start crafting EMPs only after the last one they made was used first?
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I think you should keep EMPs strong, reducing movement speed by 10% isn't really enough and even then it weakens them in chase when the killer's chase power is actually quite strong, the problem is how plentiful they are and that survivors can just grab them mid chase. What if you did this:
- Boxes no longer charge fully by themselves, they stop at 75%
- Survivors now speed up the process by 2.5x instead of 4x.
- Survivors see the aura of the boxes all the time and/or highlight only the ones at 75% (but in yellow if you let them see box so they know the difference between one that is close and one that is still charging up)
- Consider increasing the duration of the EMP on the biopods to deal with 3-genning now that the EMPs are more rare.
- Consider increasing boxes to 6.
This makes it so survivors have to spend 9 seconds opening a box at 75% to get an EMP. Now you can keep them super strong, but they are less available. It also allows survivors to spend a bunch of time making a bunch of EMPs if they want, you might find strategies where someone is dedicated to just making EMPs for everyone. Or you'll find that survivors can make a choice, "do i keep working on gens and forgo the EMP, or do i stop working the gen to get an EMP".
It also gives the killer some built in gen defense similar to wesker/nemesis/skull merchant by forcing survivors to make a choice where they either weaken the killer, but spend less time on gens, or they power through gens and get them done faster, but now the killer is more deadly.
You could tweak the numbers, but generally, survivors should have to make a choice whether to get an EMP, right now, there is no choice, they can just always have one.
While you are at it, can you remove the slowdown the killer gets when using their power near a hooked survivor? Keep it so that you can't attack to deal with the camping threat, but it feels bad for me to hook a survivor, then look through cameras to find my next target specifically to NOT camp/tunnel, and them i'm punished for doing that.
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We'll obviously keep an eye on the situation and see what further (if any) changes would need to be made.
A few things that you've mentioned are things that we have been discussing so we've definitely been thinking of similar things.
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Sounds pretty good to me, hopefully these changes make it to live
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My main issue with EMPs are people using them altruistically, especially when a SWF is using voice comms to coordinate teammates running over to EMP whoever is being chased... and this resulting in chases where a survivor has an EMP used on them 3-4 times in the same chase.
I just wish EMPs would not affect the biopods on other survivors, so we aren't giving extra rewards to people just because they are using voice comms. Slowing a survivor down, and increasing the charge time, just makes it more difficult for survivors to use EMPs on themselves, which affects solo q much more than SWFs.... Because when survivors use EMPs altruistically, it doesn't really matter if it slows them down, or if the charge time is increased, because they aren't being chased.
I just wish we could nerf EMPs in a way that doesn't just dump the majority of the burden onto solo q, especially when the proposed nerfs barely affect SWFs coordinating altruistic EMPs. And before anyone asks, I don't care if altruistic EMPs means an extra person isn't repairing a generator, because multiple EMPs in the same chase feels so awful, that I'm not caring if the survivors are playing the game to maximum efficiency.
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those changes sound amazing mandy. I cannot wait to play with new changes on the new killer.
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I don't wanna be this guy but i don't think this buffs are good enough. Thank you for monitoring him btw but i am hoping you will still watch him after this update come out.
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I'm not sure I understand the purpose behind the speed penalty while charging the EMP. I guess it comes down to a basic question: Are you or aren't you expected to use them during a chase? If so, then what's the point of trying to deny overdrive if you're just going to get hit regardless because of how much slower you're moving? If not, then why be able to move at all?
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Those changes sound good. But i am worried that reducing the disabling time might encourage people to play more passive and guarding gens.
Besides, since Singularity can destroy hacked pods with no cool down, i think that change will only buff a play style very annoying while not affecting much his chase.
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If a survivor picks up an EMP from a crate, the crates should not automatically print EMPs until the survivor uses it or dies. The reason why EMPs felt so oppressive was that there were effectively 10 of them on the map since the EMPs were always available again after survivors used them due to the auto printing.
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De spawn the boxes after picking up an EMP and move them around the map. This would actually make the aura reading changes done be effective.
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And let me add, I cannot believe how badly this killer feels. Cannot stress this enough. This is now the third killer in a row released in the (intentionally) worst state possible. Cannot stress this enough.
I am glad the dev team has fixes they already knew were needed but this is so aggravating.
I am trying to celebrate BHVR's new design and am basically spending the first month and a half (Knight and Skull Merchant both received their fixes in the following mid patch) encouraging the developers to make the changes they already knew were needed.
It's not fun. I'm not having fun. This feels bad. Please stop doing implementing this policy.
The team already knew the EMPs were problems. Already has solves for the problems. Makes the people who want to play killer deal with the already known problems. What is this?
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I think most of the changes are very empowering for the killer, i'm not sure it was necessary to buff it to that point but ok, why not.
I'm a bit concerned about the reduced duration for the EMP effect though. Imho that will render surveillance of multiple gens way too effective and would open the way to tri-gening strategies i think we can all agree we've seen enough of. And, as someone else pointed it out, that particular tweak will not really affect Hux's chase potential.
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How does this address the constant pod blocking? Looks to me like crates will still craft constant EMPs with a pod blocking duration decrease. What will stop survivors from grabbing another EMP to cycle through blocking pods?
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It's a start but honestly... fix the range on the biopods and it's ability to trigger on slightly obscured surivors
There is no way that the fences on dead dawg should block that! You can see them clear as day!
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S
So when are these going live?
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Remove autoprint, this is the main issue. There's no reason a survivor could pickup an already printed and ready EMP while running in a chase. Even make 0.5 seconds action required to print a new one but, at least, they have to stop and interract in order to pick up a new EMP. Everything else are minor bandaid that won't fix the problem
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I like these changes and cant wait to play him after patch. However I feel he is gonna become top 3 most hated killer very fast.
Let them cook for now
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Btw could you ask team to look into sensitivity on controller when switching to camera view?
I play on console and have it on 100% because it makes close range hits precise, however when I switch to camera, aiming with that sens is too difficult, it could use lower sens.
But I dont want to lower my sens just because of it. Would that be possible to lower the sens on controller a bit when switching to camera view while keeping the sens you play with normally?
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Same, he'll end up there with knight and SM, maybe!
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I don't think that there is integer number of printers that will make the Singularity balanced when playing us and against.
I believe that it is necessary to completely or partially change the ability. I see two ways:
1) abandon automatic aiming, because the game has a VERY strange understanding of "seeing" survivors and killers. I suggest replacing auto-aiming with a "cannon" with explosive shells that would infect all survivors in a small radius and/or teleport to the nearest already infected one, if he is in the blast radius.
2) Completely abandon manual aiming, which forces you to interrupt the chase for the chance to become effective in the chase. In other words, to give the targeting to the computer, removing the Singularity's ability to teleport through 2nd hit by biopod.
Separately, a simple non-independent improvement of not to showing the survivors which biopod is currently active.
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Bad not gonna lie.It wont change situation.
1.-less emps could be okayish but increase the emp generation to 100 secs is like adding from 22,5 to 25 secs not gonna change anything.
2.- 60 to 45 secs when cameras are desactivated its also bad.A gen between 2 persons last 52ish secs without any toolbox or perks and we knows thats a very weird scenario.
3.- Increase penalty moving to 10% not enought.You last as killer to break pallet 2.34 secs fairly enought time to survivor use the device and quit infection.
My changes:
Survivors must be static to use emp and 3,2 secs to use it.
Less range to emps so instead of 10 m do it 5m around.
That would fix main problem survivors cleaning infection midchase.So survivor can choose between get hit or quit infection midchase or your friend take a hit for you and cleanse your infection.
Post edited by UnknownKiller on0 -
Honest thoughts : these number tweaks won't change anything.
My biggest problem when playing as this killer is that the delay after teleporting is way too much. When it comes to overclock mode survivors will just pre-drop so that you can't get the spirit fury effect.
The survivors im going against are bored with dozens of emps ready at their disposal. This killer is a long ways off being worth playing in my opinion.
Thank you for listening to feedback.
additional note : the EMP range is the biggest problem with them imo. It's way too big you can destroy so much with just one use.
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Why do people call him Larry again?
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Singu (Larry) Ty
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Ah
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To me one of the biggest issues is the time a pod gets disabled. It used to be 60s and that will be reduced to 45s, which is a 25% reduction, but is that actually changing anything? 45s is like an eternity during the gen repair and chase part of the trial; be it 45s or 60s or 180s, that pod is dead to you and you either got to walk over there and manually decomission it and plant a new one, or move on, forget about it and probably cycle through anough new pods that it gets replaced.
Remember when we had the Eruption meta and survivor players were rightfully claiming, that 25s of incapacitated was way too much? How is this here any different? Because of the abundance of pods, I would say that 25s are a pretty good number: its long enough to be meaningful, but not so long that the pod becomes basically dead meat. The main effect of EMPs should always be to cleanse a survivor of the infection, with the shutting down of the killers power in a radius a weaker, secondary effect. But right now that stuff is so oppressive, that both effects are like main effects, with no secondary power, but two main powers.
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More controller settings in general would be a godsend. Also adding more hotkeys instead of just “action” “interaction” would be great
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In my opinion buffing a new killer that just came out is a bad idea, becuase people don't know how it really works yet. IF you want to give the new killer those boosts then making survivors run 10% slower while using EMPs is the worst idea ever. This will make chases very easy for the killer and impossible for the survivor to escape chases. Reduscing the amount of EMP crates will increas the chance of people playing for 3 gens as well and that will take us back to the bad game experience same as "Skull Merchant". I hope you take that in consideration.
Best Regards <3
Baby Legend
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Reduce the aura distance of printers to 24 meters, unless they are using the perk Plunderer's Instinct.
Increase the range of pod placement from 20 meters to 40 meters. It could be interesting to fire off a pod in a far distance and not look back while pod placing in the early game.
Make Pod placement land zone larger so it will stick a lot more often. I have found many times in RPD and on flat surface building walls that the pods can't stick unless I stop and focus on the one pixel it can stick to. Make pods able to stick on ceilings in the small gen rooms on RPD under the main room right stairs. (Currently can only stick on 1 pixel ceiling height changes.)
Placing pods on exits is null, cause survivors just use their saved EMP and its over. At least The Trapper's traps at exit panels and gates still requires survivor awareness to remediate.
Have pod cameras face the direction the killer is moving while in chase. This might help spot where the killer was 'trying' to look.
When changing pods show a quick flash of a red line from your current camera towards the camera you are about to switch to. I swear I get so mixed up cause the camera did not switch to the camera I was intending (missing by a long shot). This would give insight on how we need to aim.
Change an add-on to allow the pod to bounce one time (with added gravity) before it is placed, to fire thru windows to apply to near side of inner wall.
Allow remote detonation of disabled pods (by either selecting them while standing or while in pod view). Change an add-on to damage survivors within 3 meters, by either injury or deafening like the Hag's ear. Another add-on to blind survivors within 8 meters for the same amount of time that Blastmine does (3+seconds) with hindered movement like flashlight blinding does to a killer.
Allow pods to remove and also place other pods. Or even to move their own placement even while disabled.
Lower disabling pods with EMPs from 45 seconds to 25 seconds, like Eruption, but allow each use of an EMP to tack on another 25 seconds.
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Increase max range to 20m
10s "charge time"
Every second adds 2m to the EMP range
EMP can't be canceled, but can be popped at any time for the current range (with a minimum of 4m/2s charge time).
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you are not supposed to use them in a chase. Thats why you get a warning when Singularity aims at you through his cams but not when he aims with his arm.
You are supposed to use it the deactivate the cams or to get rid of the slipstream when not in a chase.
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i think the increased charge time is unnecessary but the rest is strong.
I would suggestion to make it so if all survivors hold a EMP that the crates should stop to produce and start to regress. This way the EMPs need to be used more tactically and survivors are motivated to use them faster.
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So do we have any idea when the hotfix is going to go live?
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