MFT is worse than old DH
So old DH was very strong (overpowert) against every Killer. The strong Killers like Nurse, Blight and Spirit needed some extra seconds to get the down and dead harding against them I would say was fine. The weaker Killers got absolutly gestroyed by DH and I would say dead harding against them was rlly mean, but what does MFT now?
MFT hurts especially weaker killers. If you think about it its clear. The strong killers are mostly strong beause they have movment. A Nurse dosent care about MFT, a Blight with speed addons doesnt care about MFT, Spirit ...etc
but for a weaker Killer MFT can rlly hurt for example:
- M1 Killer only without a good chase power to counter: Pig, Trapper, Myers, Ghost Face, Legion, Onrio, Knight, SM, Buba (if the survivor doesnt heal)
- The killer uses his power to gain a little distance so he can strike before he reaches the pallet or window, which is no longer possible with MFT: Freddy, Doctor, Billy and Pig again
- Killers that are so slow, that MFT makes a Rock to an infinite: Deathslinger, Huntress, Trickstar
So MFT shouldnt exists, because it punishes players for playing weaker killers.
PS I know Huntress and Deathslinger arent weak, but they are basically uplayable against MFT and its a nightmare to play aginst it.
Comments
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I haven't played in a while, but if I had to guess, I'd say MFT also somewhat hurts Nurse, without range and recharge she is now about the same speed at a 115% killer.
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At this point it really doesn't matter if it's op or not! just the sheer amount complaints will be enough to guarantee a nerf very soon so u won't have to deal with it much longer. I haven't seen the forums this flooded over a perk since dh/eruption.
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But is she able to reach the Survivor after she hit him? I dont know the exakt numbers of her normal range in comaresant to the distance the Survivor makes
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1 blinking is her most efficient way to catch up to survivors, she has to charge her blink up to 20 meters, blink, fatigue, and hold w for a few seconds(at 3.8 m/s, 0.2 m/s slower than survivors) until her blink recharges.
These movement spikes mean that securing your first hit will be the easy part, the hard part is catching up to a survivor holding w while slowly 1 blinking up to them.
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If they nerf it, it begs the question - do they even play their own game?
As soon as I saw the perk I thought, that would be OP with hope and resilience. Theres combos you can do where you are as fast as a killer, some faster.
So its becoming a legit question, do they play the game?
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The only things I could think to do is either nerf/remove that haste and make it an endurance perk or the haste only activates when damaged by special attacks so M1 killers aren't suffering against it.
Or leave it be and let a bunch of killers quit I guess. I'm already noticing killer bonuses are more active in my area than before throughout the day.
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I dont think they play there own game. The look at stats and Balance around that, thats why Trapper is still that weak.
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Mhm that sucks. Some would argue its the Nurse, but I my oppinion a movment killer should always be able to hit a Survivor, thag shift w, kinda fast by basekit.
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Did you even read or care about my point. My point wasnt about how powerfull the two perks are. My point was its basically unhealthy for the game.
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the doomsdaying is real.
dh, an instant on command facetank to ANYTHING that can extend chases by upwards of 30s and has unlimited uses.
mft, gives a 3% boost for half the chase.
give up, its not that big a deal.
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Both is hard to Balance. Only Endurance and no one would play this perk, but changes in movement speeds for Survivors are hard to Balance.
And your right I dor exaple will not play killer until this Perk gets a rework, because I mostly play weaker Killers and catch a good Survivor with MFT as Pig for example is kinda impossible (depends on maps).
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People were literally complaining about the new killer needing buffs because they weren’t able to get 4Ks immediately when it had only been released for 2 hours and now this. Do y’all actually take the time to LEARN how to play new killers and counter perks, or do you just think you should able to instantly cakewalk to 4K and if you can’t, then everything needs to be nerfed?
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Read before you judge me.
Ps it is a big deal. And if its not what about a perk that makes survivors 3% slower once they got hit. I thing you would rant about it.
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Pls show me where I say the new Killer needs a buff I give you 50€ if you find it in my post. READ BEFORE WRITE
Also to couter MFT you need at least two Perkslots to get an very weak counter and even if you bring those you need to get throw on MTF.
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No joke with their decisions lately I really dont think they do.
They think trapper is just fine in their ama... enough said.
They also said in their ama something like theyve had new staff. Explains a lot.
This perk combo is like a constant exhaustion perk. Its the first time ive ever not felt the need to run one.
You know youve messed up when a new killer comes out, and its 100% killer bonus release day
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True. 😄
I love the Survivors that say:"YOU NEED TO RUN ONE EXHAUSTION PERK OR YOU WILL LOSE!" No you not. My favoried build is: Any Means, Aftercare, Fogwise and Guardian. I win rlly often with this so clearly we needed a new speed perk for Survivors.
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You're reaching into Dredge's dark shroud with this one. Dont get me wrong 3% speed for being injured is kinda weird and dumb but old DH was miles stronger than MFT
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I'm starting to think a lot of players don't understand why old Dead Hard was overpowered.
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I know why but pls Read what I wrote to understand the point I try to make.
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Pls Read and dont look only at the title
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Playing The Deatslinger vs MfT is simply impossible
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I understand the point, I just disagree with it - and I don't think even what you're describing is half as broken as Dead Hard used to be. It's a bad comparison.
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Yes DH was stronger than MFT, but DH was bad for every Killer, but MFT hurts the weaker Killers very hard and the Top Tier Killers very less. This means the perk is very unhealthy for the game. MFT is not worse than DH in terms of strength but worse in terms of balancing and healthy gameplay.
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You cant exactly counter a perk that makes you just passively move 3% faster whilst injured. Its like saying "just counter sprint burst".
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a solid 3 months without big time crying
a record for this community
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Dead hard doesn't allow you to reach new tiles twice or thrice, it just allows you to reach it once.
MfT on the other hand, always increases the distance surivors can make by 20% and even more, it works once, twice, thrice and fourth, it's a lot worse than dead hard because it can very well act as additional health state in many situations AND still works infinite amount of times, then also increase the effectiveness of every loop by tremendous amount, works as hard-counter to certain killers and also even reduces the effectiveness of lunge.
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I mean the emps are still very oppressive and the hotfix wont really do anything either as long as EMPs can still fully self print. Like it should reward you for teamwork and not just running to a box and holding an emp charge until you get a pod on your back.
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Old Dead Hard, and from context I assume OP is talking about pre-6.1.0 Dead Hard, did not just give you passive "reach new tiles" distance. That's close to what it did, but trying to frame it that way is deeply, deeply misleading and misses the part of it that actually made Dead Hard OP.
The main distinction that matters most here is that Made For This gives you the chance to reach a tile. If you aren't outplayed, if the killer doesn't have a good power for stopping you, if you aren't just too far away. I'm not saying that's rare, but I am saying it isn't guaranteed. The killer has agency, and the ability to stop you.
What Dead Hard did was guarantee you reached the tile, and guarantee the killer could do nothing about it. Period. None of the nuance of MFT, you just dashed, the killer could do nothing about it, and then the chase was reset. It wasn't just about reaching a new tile, it was about how, when, and how little the killer could do about it. After all, the Exhaustion perks as a class are, with few exceptions, meant to make you reach a new tile, that's their entire purpose- that alone isn't enough for a perk to be OP and it definitely wasn't what made Dead Hard OP.
I'm not even personally committing super hard to saying MFT is balanced, I don't have enough experience playing against it to say with concrete certainty. It seems fine, I've noticed its presence and it wasn't overwhelming in those trials, but I could be missing something there. All I can say is that a lot of the arguments for saying MFT is overpowered are deeply, deeply flawed.
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Made for this still helps when you are outplayed, by reducing lunge distance and giving lot more time to actually get close for hit, dead hard can still be stopped in killer power for plenty of situations, all it did was making you invulnerable for some time and giving survivors distance, so hitting him with power after or before that is viable, and if you are too far away dead hard still can't help you cuz using tap hit right behind the survivors can basically counter dead hard.
MfT still doesn't allow killers to do anything about it, beside exhaustion which is also a counter for dead hard, they are just faster, killers have nothing to stop them being faster, and only way to deal with it is just run straight to catch up which allows them run 20% longer or even more with killer stuns, and then chase will reset by them reaching new tile.
If it is about "how, when and how little killers could do about it", it IS certainly worse than dead hard, dead hard was more or less one time perk and also technically counterable by "just bait it out" or tap the hit, made for this, on the other hand, it's working ALL the time (in the same circumstance dead hard can work, of course), without any input of survivors (which is worse than dead hard because dh still required "skill" per se), and killers have "literally" as in literal literally nothing, unlike dead hard.
And even then it CAN still be used with dead hard or balanced landing, thanks for not technically being an exhaustion perk.
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15 sec for a hit is already 30 seconds for a down, which really isn't that bad as is, and then it doesn't even allow killers to actually hit survivors in most of times unless it's blood lust 2 or 3, which is 25 seconds and 35 seconds respectively, on top of it survivors can easily force killers to throw it's effect away.
And unlike MfT it doesn't really affect any killer power or the survivor's capability to reach new tiles much too, you should think more like "if bloodlust requires this much of restriction to exist, why MfT should be this easy".
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You could not bait out old Dead Hard, not when it was being used in the way that made it OP. It required no skill, happened in every chase, and you had absolutely no way of outplaying it.
You can, in fact, outplay Made For This. Haste is strong, but it is just Haste. It is not i-frames, or Endurance, or anything that actually prevents you from getting the hit unless it's a proper boost like Sprint Burst. You can loop people with MFT. You can use your power to stop them getting to a new tile. It is harder, because it is a chase perk and they are meant to make chases harder for you, but it is more than doable.
In fact, MFT is a lot more like reworked Dead Hard, at least for most killers. That was the one you could bait out and that did have counterplay- the difference is that even that Dead Hard unfairly punished certain killer powers in a way MFT doesn't, at least not directly.
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Let's be honest... How is it FAIR that you get a permanent boost after getting hit? No conditions, just get hit and you're faster? Come on
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And in that "just for distance" part, it's no different from made for this, both requires no skill, happens in every chase, and has absolutely no way of outplaying it.
I-frame is irrelevant because when they used it for distance, there is basically no way to hit them anyway, the only times it matters is when they used dead hard to dodge the axe/rush/gun/whatever that damages them and all such, but which part is still skillful and not considered broken, not to mention the fact MfT can also make all those things harder to hit while also hard countering powers that slows killer down.
Dead hard is just a distance, so is haste, there is no real difference between two, everything you've said pretty much applies to dead hard too, the only part is killer power but then MfT also counters different killer power, both is at least equally bad and with additional capability to use proper exhaustion perks and not to limited once nature, MfT is worse.
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lolol and they say the dbd community not strong!
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You cant compair MFT to bloodlust, because:
- Bloodlust is gone after a Hit, by breaking actions, by using your power or by ending the chase (whitch often happends mid chase)
- Bloodlust needs min 15 seconds to prog
- Bloodlust is design to help weaker killer
- If a killer needs bloodlust to down he/she will probebly lose, because of the time the survivors get by the killer building up bloodlust
So lets look at MFT
- Get Speed if injured
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I feel like we need to bring back old Dead Hard For Distance just to get people to stop comaining that everything is as bad as Dead Hard. I did not suffer through DH being meta for like 4 years just for it to be diminished like this.
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Let’s be honest… How is it FAIR that you get a boost after failing to hit a survivor? No conditions, just failing the chase and you’re faster? Come on
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Remove Bloodlust and then maybe we can talk about a rework for Made for This.
Otherwise, sorry but git gud. Killers in 2023 are so much more whiny than they were back in 2020/2021, back when old meta (DS / Unbreakable / Dead Hard / Iron Will) was alive and well. At this rate, killers in 2023 want survivors to spawn in on hooks/death hook already so they can faceroll their keyboard and get an easy 4k win every match. Isn't that right?
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Why do people always bring up this extreme exaggeration of "hur dur lets survivors spawn on hooks for easy 4Ks hur dur", whenever killer complaints and fears are discussed? Is this fun? Or witty? Maybe I am just not getting it...
One fact that gets so rarely discussed is, how good big chunks of the player base have become. Basically every game there is one or two survivors, that know every tileset like the back of their hands, literally, and they can loop you for ages, unless you got a power that can somehow shut down loops. FR, this survivors are basekit untouchable, just because of their skills, and thats not actually a rare trait. If you somehow get into your first chase with such a survivor, you basically threw that game before it even really started, because you ain't catching them, and you gotta drop that chase before 2-3 gens pop. Giving this players nearly permanent +3% haste will just eleviate the problem to untold hights. I know that it sucks; I for one suck at looping, at MFT would give me a shot to extend a chase by a bit of time and maybe another round around that tileset, before I go down, but survivors that know what they are doing can become literally immortal.
Thats why movement speed on survivors is such a dangerous and fickle beast. Dark Theory was only held back by virtue of being a totem, the effect itself was actually pretty good and transformed a lot of close calls into whiffes; MFT is that same effect, but on crack and steroids, unshackling it from its boon roots and throwing in a +1% for good measure.
And before someone calls me names for "lol calling Dark Theory OP, now I have seen it all", thats not what I am saying. Dark Theory was never and will never be OP, because its effect is tied to a boon totem. But you can try it out if you want: boon a totem with Dark Theory and loop around it, you will get much more whiffes and close escapes by a hair, that would all have been hits without it, with the caveat that the killer will hear the constant humming of the totem and eventually whack it. Such a perk is just extremely hard to quantify in game, as you can't really tally the times you didn't get hit. But MFT shows the potential of such a power, that Dark Theory could never dream about realizing, and thats actually frightening, especially in today day and age, where gens are flying like popcorn.
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Ah yes, a mechanic that takes time to build up and is negligent in the overall game when a killer has 4 targets, deactivates when chase magically drops in certain loops and when breaking pallets/doors/hitting someone, and rarely comes into play with a good killer compares to:
Hit --> 3% speed boost while injured
I'm convinced so many survivor mains here are clueless about the overall balance of the game and conveniently covers it up with 'git gud'
Meanwhile killers who play as fair as possible get the worst experiences with additions like this, so survivors will face more and more camp/tunnel and complain even more and fuel the never ending cycle of 'but that side needs to suffer.'
And before anyone bring up broken killer perks or abilities, I think Nurse and Blight have problems, the broken addons need reworks, Myers instakill is busted in most cases (But with this perk who knows anymore) and NOED doesn't need haste either.
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- Youre nearly the entire round injured so its not a point
- 15 seconds is mutch in dbd, because 15 seconds in chase are 45 seconds on a gen so half a gen.
- No a speed blight doesnt care at all if you are faster a pig will have a misrable time. Its designt to destroy M1 Killers not Top Tier Killers
- You could say MFT rewards you for being bad, because you got hit
- You never reach the higher speeds, because the game ends the chase allways.
Your points doesnt make sence at all. Bloodlust is designd to help weaker killers MFT is designd to destroy weaker killers.
Bloodlust was removed ones. Guess what happends weaker killers doesnt had a chance against good looper at all.
Im fine if bloodlust gets removed, but what need to happen before are maps and buffs to Trapper, Pig, Myers, Freddy etc. or a nerf to the common tiles, main building GoJ, main Swamp etc.
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this post is so full of overreaction its unreal
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"everything" when literally only this perk has been complained.
This perk unironically kills lot more killers than dead hard, yes it's real.
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- True, but at the moment I see just gen rush and staing injured, because of MFT.
- In my chases as Killer I would say bloodlust kicks in in like 5% and even if the chase is longer than 15 or 30 seconds long no bloodlust, because of game end chase, pallet break etc. As survivor I never see killers bloodlusting at all.
- Only Nurse, but Blight, Spirit, Oni ... dont care at all.
- Bloodlust doesnt reward outplaying. Bloodlust gives weaker killer (not weaker players) a chance in some loops.
- Weaker killers need help overwise they wouldnt be weak. And you say "so mutch help" I looked over my recorded killer games today like 30 games and I have reach Bloodlust 1 nine times, Bloodlust 2 one time and Bloodlust 3 never. How often did MFT progs in these 30 games? 241 times.
Post edited by miniwengsel on2 -
Except he's talking about the old DH that was used to extend chases by using the dash to get to a window, pallet or greed one more loop before dropping a pallet.
This perk is effectively the same thing as it gives approximately 20m additional extra distance running straight when used. Not to mention the benefits of extending loops.
There's a reason why old DH was nerfed and this perk basically gives you the exact same thing (if not stronger) for doing nothing. At least there was an element of skill with DH.
So no it's nothing to do with the current facetank DH & more to do with extending chases to beyond a reasonable time, which is why old DH was nerfed. The old perk wasn't even being used to facetank 80% of the time and was used for distance.
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Off the top of my head, I've seen (not forums exclusive):
-Prove is as bad as DH
-MTF is as bad as DH
-SB is worse than DH
-Adren is worse than DH
-UB is as bad as DH
-New BT is worse than DH
-The Deja Vu buff will be as bad as DH
-Blood Rush is gonna be as bad as DH
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Uh, I've really seen none, maybe SB but that was mainly in the line of "SB is actually stronger than DH so people gonna complain about it when DH nerfed" or something like that.
I think blood rush had so much of backlash but don't think it was compared to DH.
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Sry for the title. Its a bit misleading. My Problem with MFT is it punishies weaker Killers and top Tier Killer very little and because I can I look at your list 😁.
Prove: Defenetly not its strong but not DH like.
MFT: Healthy (game) whise yes, strengh whise I would say mabye same lvl.
SB: Old DH no. DH now yes, but less frustrating
Adren: No
UB: No its a strong but fair Perk
BT: No same as UB
Deja-vu: No you cant rlly compair them
Blood Rush: Could have been on the same frustration lvl, but strengh whise no.
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You lost me at the title. It may be really powerful to have the 3% (despite me not having any issues playing against someone who has it as a LEGION MAIN) but comparing it to old dead hard years ago is mental. If Made For This is going to need the speed removed, it should be focused on protecting teammates and be active even when healthy. Powerful enough to counter instadown killers but not broken with the movement speed.
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theres still quite a stark difference between MFT and og dh. With MFT the killer still gains distance on you, with og dh you could instantly move 2m forward to erase any mistake you made. MFT still rewards looping tightly and overall just playing well with increased chasetime, while DH would just hand you a pallet or window whenever you needed it.
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