Hooks
So I'm curious, after 7 years why is it that hooks continue to disappear upon the death of a survivor? Without hooks killers can't do their objective, and without hooks it creates dead zones that allow survivors to escape over and over again. Killers have only a matter of seconds to get a survivor to a hook too, so you can't really tell them to be more strategic about what hook they use.
Seriously, why is this still a thing after all these years? Is there a logical reason why this gameplay mechanic continues to stay? Survivors can already use a variety of ways to save a survivor: flashlights, flashbangs, hook breaking, body blocks, etc, so do we really need to throw in deleted hooks on top of all of that?
Comments
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I think honestly since it creates a potential for a stupid experience it should be removed. Survivors can get themselves into a position where they sit in a corner where a hook is gone and they become impossible to hook if they wiggle out. They run back to the corner, and then get downed at the corner and the cycle repeats. Thus creating a situation where the killer's only option is to either let the survivor go, or just wait out the 4 minute timer. Obviously this is no fun for anyone.
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Every map i play on there are two hooks visible from every one you're on. This really isn't an issue and if it is one consistently for you I think it's an issue of your own making, just as killers say non-early game protected 3 gens are for survivors.
Hooks used to be permanently breakable with a tool box. Be glad that doesn't exist anymore.
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I'd welcome a few less hooks if used hooks came back after a set amount of time.
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Depending on the map, it's quite bad. On the silent hill map and dead dog saloon, you will experience the lack of hooks in certain regions of the map. Like near the water tower. Then you are forced to slug and watch it or search for the hatch and close it. Most of the time when the hook is far you are exposing yourself to a bodyblock save too. I dont like this mechanic because as a killer you need to keep watch of generators,survivors, survivors hook stages, survivors items, pallets broken, loops still with pallets, loops that connect to anothe loop. windows, breakable walls, boons, hexes, and Hooks. Not counting other worries that you will have while playing like pathing, bodyblocks, travel distance to a hook etc.
Hangmans trick old effect was super nice and now is almost useless as a perk because it got overnerfed.
Solution: Give hangmans trick the ability to restore hooks like before
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This is such a non-issue. There are plenty of hooks. At most, 3 will be removed if you can sacrifice 3 survivors to which is not a big deal.
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Not necessarily, I've had some ridiculous spawns with hooks at times. I had 1/4th of Ormand, the killer shack side no less, have no hooks and the basement was in main. I even dropped everything to look around myself to make sure I wasn't crazy and yep, no hooks.
Guess where the survivors ran to before going down. Wouldn't hurt to address hooks across the board.
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People that say this is a non-issue must be the SWFs that pick o e corner of the map to get downed in so they eliminate a hook and prevent the killer from getting hooks or kills.
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Exactly. If such a circumstance can be created (which it can), then it should be removed. I've had plenty of matches where that one corner of a map had no hooks because the only hook that was there disappeared upon a survivor's death. This caused the remaining survivor/s to continue to run to that same corner over and over. Unless BHVR pans on rebalancing hook placements, then this mechanic should be removed from the game entirely.
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Its been a game mechanic since day one if you could re use hooks after a survivor dies on them then how is that fair so you can just down everyone by the same hook wait for them to die and hook the next one. If thats the case lets make un hooking yourself 90% instead of 3% if your that bad as a killer dont play killer there are enough hooks on the map just choose what ones you use wisely.
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If everyone is going down by the same hook one after the other then the killer can just bleed them out anyway. That's a problem of the survivors' creation.
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It that scenario, the killer will just let them all bleed out for 4 minutes. I'd argue the game should just end at the point so people don't have to wait 4 minutes.
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And it's not even "killer problem", like why the ######### do I have to waste time of someone I don't even hate for 4 minutes just because game doesn't allow me to do anything else, lmao.
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The amount of survivors who can't take a L gracefully and insist on rather bleeding out then crawling towards a hook is too damn high.
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I think Wiggle, Hook Spawns, Hook #, and Hook interaction with Sacrifices are all pretty outdated and most likely need reworks.
But the problem is that they're functional enough to where its very low priority I'd imagine. The amount of times survivors abuse a deadzone would be pretty minimal, not to mention pulling it off right without just bleeding out seems unlikely.
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Then the issue is hook placement, and not respawns. The same issue happens with generators spawning far too close together. Focus on map placement instead.
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Actually, for some extremely weird reasons they even managed to make it so survivors won't regress wiggling progress during being slugged, making them unhookable if killer failed at it once and dropped it.
It's unbelievable because all it does is making survivor's life unnecessarily miserable.
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I've had a game on Midwhich where the killer had to drop two people because of terrible hook placement and hooks being blocked by breakable doors.
We ended up farming with them because they understandably got tilted and afk'd in the corner.
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"Actually, for some extremely weird reasons even managed to make it so survivors won't regress wiggling progress during being slugged, making them unhookable if killer failed at it once and dropped it."
what would be the point of the already weak sabotage mechanic if u can literally drop without any consequences. body blocks would be significantly weaker as well
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? the point is that you prevented hooking, allowing survivors to pick up dying survivor and get the value from certain perks, and if you don't have those perks killers would just hit him again and hook it anyway, if killer wasn't interested in proxy camping slugged bodies then it doesn't really matter because he will not be picked up by killer regardless.
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It's a lot like being mindful of generator placements, to complete them strategically and ensure you don't 3-gen. Very rarely do I even encounter this problem, because even in a corner of a map or exit gate, there's almost always two hooks you can reach. If you encounter this often, you're probably winning your matches anyway. If it's a sabotage SWF, then you can play smart and counter their efforts. Or just slug them if they want to act the fool.
Though, I do wish that a Scourge Hook would transfer to another hook, to ensure that you always have 4 on the map. Because sometimes the only good one gets used several times and you can't get to the others, especially on a map like RPD.
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If it doesn't matter for 99% of games anyway, why does it even exists.
And it doesn't even affect killers that much because bleeding out is a thing.
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¿ completely disagree
There little reward from preventing a hook if the killer can just drop, let the wiggle meter regress, and pick right back up. They will not move that far away from body to give other survivor a chance to pick up. Of course they will proxy camp the slug into than! why would they leave? When the hook is still very much obtainable
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Because sabotage duration is long enough to the point just staying there makes it waste of time, and that is largely made from assumption wiggle meter regress quickly which wasn't the case, survivors can even move to pallet within that time anyway.
It doesn't really matter if killer decided to proxy camp slugged body because without counter perks it's guaranteed to get immediate down after pick up, it doesn't matter if killer decided to not do it because if then killers will just ignore it's existence and consider it as a pressure value, removing regression did nothing to help those while tremendously hurting last survivors by forcing killers to slug them.
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Makes sense the hook is gone to me. The Entity gobbles up the dead survivor, the hooks a little extra crunch.
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I wonder that too. This hadicap feature of losing a hook is a non sense and is problematic sometimes and in some maps. This isn't an huge issue, 85% of the times yo can reach another hook when you down a survivor near a destroyed hook, but the other 15% feels really bad because you can't do an essetial thing which is achieving your main objetive due that mechanic. Sometimes the survivors even notice that you can't reach a hook from a spot and they go there to get downed, It happened me a few days ago.
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"Because sabotage duration is long enough to the point just staying there makes it waste of time"
assuming they will wait for that hook to return? There plenty of hooks in close proximity of each other on half the maps. You can just option select to the next hook once there wiggle regress depending on the rate of the regression. also assuming survivors are not trying to heal them up which will be reason enough to stay as well.
"and that is largely made from assumption wiggle meter regress quickly which wasn't the case"
yeah i don't know what the wiggle regression rate was back in the day (way before my time). I can see your point but the change just isn't needed to me.
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I support this, I hate it when the killer bleeds me bc theres no hooks nearby. Or when I have to either bleed someone or just let them wiggle out because I got some kills. It kind of just punishes the killer for winning by potentially preventing hooks.
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Wiggle regression was 0.05 c/s.
So it took nearly 5 and a half minutes to fully regress a 99% wiggle.
It was next to useless honestly. By the time it had done any worthwhile regression they were already up.
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I'm hoping they bring back the og hangman trick perk. It basically respawn with a set amount of time after a sacrifice/sabo hook.
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5mins! lol
Why am I even surprise! I hear legends about all type of crazy nonsensical stuff from back than
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Easy solution to the first situation is to crawl to a hook. That's what I do.
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I thought survivors hated to be slugged, why would they want hooks to stay broken?
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yeah I do that too, still just makes for some boring gameplay though
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Before complaining, pls look up the facts first. From the DbD Wiki:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Wiggle#Wiggle_Regression
"Whenever Survivors would stop wiggling or be prevented from doing so (i.e. when they were dropped by the Killer and left in the Dying State), their Wiggle Meter would slowly regress over time at a rate of -0.05 c/s.
At this rate, it would take 320 seconds (5 minutes and 20 seconds) to regress a full Wiggle Meter(16 charges) completely, which contributed to this feature being essentially unknown amongst the Community."
So by no means you were able to drop a survivor and pick 'em up a few seconds later. It took REALLY LONG. But in the scenario of searching the last surv that crawled away minutes ago, you were pretty much save to pick them up and hook them, ending the game. Now, if you had to drop that said survivor, you cannot pick 'em up even 3 minutes later, bc the will wiggle off. So the safer approach for the killer is indeed leaving the surv on the ground for them to bleedout.
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yeah i should've look it up
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No worries
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That's the point I'm trying to make though. You said you rarely encounter this scenario, and to be fair some people that play killer probably feel the same way, but the point is is that it does exist. A killer should never have to worry about finding a hook, and on some maps that can be extremely difficult if a hook has been removed. Worse, if a survivor notices that, then they're more than likely to take advantage of that.
Bottom line, these kinds of instances shouldn't exist in the first place. Hooks should always be reachable. There are many ways to fix this issue too: don't make hooks disappear, rebalance maps with their hook placements, or give killers built-in iron grasp that gets stronger with each hook that disappears. Also, I do agree that scourge hooks should never be removed. Given that there's a limited amount of them in the first place, should one break upon a survivor's death, then it should be transferred to another hook.
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Those pesky SWF's preventing the killer from getting kills or hooks... By dying on hooks and eliminating them!
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You must be joking. DEAD DAWG SALOON? Sorry. But I am sure you have no idea what you are talking about.
My niche and the reason why I enjoy survivor the most is sabotaging hooks. Saboteur is my permanent perk that gets removed very rarely. I know all the hook placements and everything there is at this point. The one map that is THE toughest to hook in is most definitely saloon. Literally ANY other map is better for sabotages and every game where I managed to successfully sabotage hook in saloon is always huge pride of mine AND huge misplay on killer's side.
Survivor A can get downed just below the hook, killer can not notice said hook and go for the next one - you can successfully sabotage that next hook AND take the hit - chances are still quite high killer will be barely able to hook said survivor on yet another hook. This is special case for dead dawg and it's the case for 80% of the map (corners and main's little room on top floor are probably the only exceptions - and that main only if killer did not decide to break a wall allowing him to drop on a hook really quickly).
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Oh yeah. And also let's autodown flashsaved survivors too after some time. Because the alternative is just no good... This is absolutely bonkers. Hooks already spawn WAY too leniently for killers. The only exception can be named - and BTW midwitch from around patch 6.5 is not part of them (they added quite a hefty number of new hooks into that map).
How would you like it if survivors were able to say remove your perk after 3mins of game, because "you had enough time to use it already" - no matter if it's NOED or NWO... Your "idea" is about the same caliber.
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100% agree
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My question is why is it considered “abusing dead zones” when survivors knowingly run to areas with fewer hooks yet so many people are still inclined to want to defend camping, tunneling, and slugging? The former is far more of a strategy than the latter. A lot of killers are gonna slug anyway even if hooks are plentiful. I had a Trickster today who just kept slugging Kate until the point that there wasn’t even time to pick her up again because your bleed out timer doesn’t reset. I’d much rather bleed out against a killer that abandons me because they think it a poor strategy to pick me up in a dead zone than to be sacrificed by a killer who camped and slugged so they can easily put me on the same hook my teammate just died on. Furthermore, I don’t think killers should receive any points for survivors that bleed out. A killer’s objective is to hook just as a survivors objective is to repair. Survivors can’t escape without doing their objective so killers should have to do theirs as well.
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How would you like it if survivors were able to say remove your perk after 3mins of game, because "you had enough time to use it already"
Yeah, that’d be crazy
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A killer’s objective is to kill survivors. Hooking them is just one way to do it.
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Actually, no. If their objective was just to kill survivors then the game wouldn’t need the hook mechanic at all. The game was designed for hooks to be their objective: they are sacrificing for the entity. There’s a reason that moris are only available with certain add-ons, powers, and perks that are even then still quite situational. It’s because their primary goal is to hook survivors. Allowing survivors to bleed out is not.
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Whoa you should tell the devs, they have a huge bug where survivors die after being on the ground for a while!
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I don’t remember saying that the bleed out mechanic doesn’t exist… but it’s not your objective to down and then do nothing. Maybe you should ask the devs why they added hooks to the game if you’re not meant to use them?
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It’s the killer’s objective to make survivors die. They can do that through:
- Hooks
- Moris
- Endgame collapse
- Bleedouts
It’s not like they slipped on a banana peel and accidentally coded a bleedout mechanic on the way down.
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I just wish they'd give back the super fast and guaranteed hook regen to Hangman's Trick. There's literally zero reason to run it currently and it'd give it a niche I guess.
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if anything it’s designed to just end the game for a killer who refuses to hook and can thus hold the game hostage, or to penalize a survivor who was downed and revived multiple times. Just because things are in the game doesn’t mean they’re meant to be utilized and killers aren’t meant to just bleed out survivors. Survivors were never meant to just hang around after all the exit gates were opened and they added a feature to prevent it. It’s about time they do something about this as well. Sorry it’ll make you have to play more skillfully and strategically it they do.
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