(Serious Question) Why Do People Do This?
Let me set the scene...
It's Coldwind Farm versus Nemesis, the Nemesis got NO hooks the entire game, despite having many opportunities.
They either whiffed easy hits and maybe painfully bad mistakes that costed them the match (like running around main building with breaking the breakable walls). The only got Tier 2 once 1 Generator remained because missed so many easy whips.
Post-game chat, they blame it on the "boogieman" of DBD, Survive With Friends. Because apparently, anytime you lose to a team it's automatically a SWF.
Apparently, sitting on Generators and being efficient in an event where Ive only experienced camping and tunneling (which forces me to play efficient) makes me "coordinated" and "part of a SWF" even though Im just doing my objective like they are doing theirs.
In all seriousness, I really wonder where this, "I lost, therefore it is a SWF," mindset even stims from, since a few years ago this was never an issue, but it seems that over time it has slowly emerged and has become more common to see.
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I never had that mind set even while learning killer, people are just bad at this game and want to blame it on something. Guy probably spent zero time trying to learn the game from other people outside the game or has 0 talent for the game, pick one. Likely the first one or both considering how he reacted, you don't just start calling out swfs without having preconceived notions about the game as a whole via social media.
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I wonder if there is a specific part of the community, group, or persons behind that mindset being so prominent though. Since Ive seen a spark in it recently.
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I don't watch many people but maybe deadplays? I don't think he actually thinks like that but his content revolves around stereotypical killer persona. "This p100 swf got massacred by my pallet shredding freddy after they tried to bully me" that's how every video is worded. He's like the naymetti of killer or vice versa. They are both amazing in their respective roles but they have that click bait mentality.
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Same reason why some people need a crutch like swfs to play, and the same reason why survs stand at gates instead of leaving.
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If he's really that bad at Nemesis he shouldn't worry about Swf, since at lower and mid levels they're not different from solos when it comes to escape rates.
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This is high level MMR swf we always hear about !
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Some people have too weak of a mentality to accept losing.
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The 10K Hour Comp Team (tm)
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SWF is a crutch? That's a new take.
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For the same reason people say "Bro, stop screen peeking", or "Bro, I was lagging" or whatever else. Or in team games no matter if it's true or not it's always a teammate's fault, or how a survivor might call the killer existing in the same galactic supercluster as them camping.
They're magic mental spells that erase a loss in the mind of some people. They didn't ACTUALLY lose because X. And no matter the proof to the contrary you're presented you can always make up an increasingly tinfoil flavoured way to double down, like I've been accused of partying up over Discord to hide that I'm swf when I'm not and it's 4x public Steam profiles with no friend relations, and way back even of deleting eachother on Steam between every match.
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NO hooks the entire game and you say ggwp, how did you think that would go?
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It is not really a recent thing. When I started playing people were blaming their losses mostly on SWFs. Some of the more vocal Killer Main Streamers (I wont name anyone, but most people might have a grasp..) are the same, always thinking that they verse the Top Survivors and always versing SWFs.
This is even more funny when I consider that I faced the same people like one of those Streamers (before Dedicated Servers). And even went against this Streamer - and whenever they were losing, it was due to SWF. So either the people played Solo in my games and SWF in their games OR they were looking for some excuse.
So yeah, it is not really a recent thing that SWF gets blamed for losing. Because for some reason some Killers are not able to reflect on their mistakes and think that they might not have played that well. Is it the huge amount of Whiffs with the M2? Or the terrible sense of gameplay and even letting the game go to 0 Hooks with so many Gens remaining? (aka not switching targets and stuff like that). Nope, must be SWF.
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I don't solo queue very often but I have had killers like this in the past.
Using SWF as copium for why you lost is extremly common in this community. Not every good team you play against is a SWF and not every SWF is good.
Sometimes you just encounter a group of good players that don't know each other. Hell sometimes not even the entire group is good but by focusing too much on 1 or 2 good players when the other players in the match are much weaker and easier targets it can make the match seem more stacked against you than it really was because you didn't get the opportunity to see how fast the team would crack if you pressured their weaker links.
A lot of the times I have been accused of SWFing as solo q that's precisely what happened. Killer over focuses me when I'm a 6000 player and typically the strongest looper in the team, maybe one of the other players also happens to do decently well, the gens get done before the killer pays much attention to the weak links and the match falls apart for them. Then the end game chat hits and they justify their loss by saying it was SWF/perks/items/maps when the reality is they could have played better and made less mistakes and better decisions, not that they do this maliciously but it's a bias people need to overcome. Accepting that sometimes a loss is your own fault is a strength.
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People watch players who are so good they lose only to swf on comms and blame them every time they lose because they severely overestimate their skills and MMR and think they're a comp level killer bc they watched an Otz guide.
Even without going as far as doing that, you can see just from the forums that a lot people genuinely believe they're going against 3 or 4 ppl swf most of the time which is very unlikely to be the case.
Also, I've found that people who don't play survivor enough to have developed proper game sense think every kind of teamwork or altruistic act is proof that their opponents are a swf. Some people can't fathom that you can get a flashlight save, know when to take a hit or coordinate a save against a facecamper without communication because they wouldn't know how to do it.
On a lighter note I find it quite funny when killers assume they're against a swf based on the characters survivors are playing or their outfits, sometimes you just see two matching people and want to join the fun lol.
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It's only half relevant but all of the comp players/retired comp players I have played against have about the same level of ego and lack of self awareness as the person you mentioned. Only in dbd would "pro players" be worse in chase than the best solo survivors I have gone against and have 5 times the ego.
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This ^
After a stomp game you don't say anything because it sure as hell wasn't a good game for the losing side no matter what.
And anything coming from the winner is salt into the wound.
It's called reading the room.
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Yes people only play in swf to win and not because it’s fun to play with your friends 🙃
If you have no one to play with add me and I’ll show you why it’s fun
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But you can do that in kyf if it's about fun. That way you don't have to impact those who don't want to enjoy your swf.
No thanks, im a killer main an when i do play surv i happily play with randoms.
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It's called "good sportsmanship"?
I always say "ggwp" regardless if I win or lose, and I always say "good luck, have fun next match" as well, it's just customary in many of the games that I play (Warframe, Battlebit Remastered, Deep Rock Galactic, etc).
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Saying gg even when you lose is good sportsmanship.
Anyway, the killer suspecting SWF might be simply caused by the HUD. Had a match where i saw a teammate had almost finished the gen, so i went right to the gate. Better coordination can happen with the HUD, so its natural that killers suspect SWF.
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It goes beyond just when you lose. I always try to create a positive environment around me regardless if I win or lose.
There is a specific reason why I put the "WP" or "Well Played" when saying "GGWP", because regardless of the skill level, all players put forth their best effort, which I consider to be worthy of such. It applies to everyone, not just a single person, not just the Survivors, not just the Killer, EVERYONE.
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Correct. Its a game after all. Most people play it to have fun. Toxicity just creates more toxicity. While kind behavior creates kind reactions. People that are mad, often calm down, when they read some nice words.
DbD has one of the most toxic communities. Lets change this.
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Except you'd need 5 people to play a normal game in kyf and the most common swf are only 2 people. And even if you have 5 players you would't gain any BPs, EXP or get your challenges and dailies done.
No one is going to stop their game progress because you don't want to go against people who play a multiplayer game with their friend(s).
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What does bp and exp mean if you're having fun. Nothing, and im sure you can find a killer and 2 others on the dbd discord, you just choose not to, because you'd rather stomp killers under the veneer of playing with friends.
My original point is that swf is a crutch, anyone who says otherwise obviously didn't read the million threads talking about solo being rubbish and why they're adding tools to make it easier to communicate.
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Saying gg in the chat when winning and losing is just good manners, and that guy had terrible attitude regardless. Many people have 1k or 0k and get told ggwp and take it infinitely better.
I'm bad enough at survivor that I sometimes face players who are on their first few games of that killer, and pretty often I'll try and cheer them up if they got only a few hooks, by telling them something they did right or if it's a killer I've already played, how dreadful my first games as them were. Most respond very positively to encouragements, which I can tell that guy would not have.
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lmao sure what does getting shards, cosmetics through the rift or leveling up your characters mean when you could just not for the only benefit of random people complaining ? Also if fun was all that mattered no one would sweat to being with. Why do killers tunnel to win or slug for the 4K when they could just have fun instead? Why do survivors even bother doing gens to escape when there's really nothing fun about it?
Communication is obviously a big help but being in a swf doesn't mean you're on comms and having comms absolutely does not mean survivors are playing efficiently. most swf aren't communicating like an esports team and are actually just having fun.
Also for the record i've played in a swf once, with one other person and without comms, which is what most swf are. There aren't a lot of people who actually go against 4men swf on comms most of the time, and considering the number of people who claim they're one of those on this forum I'd say the majority are just using it as an excuse every time they lose because they can't fathom survivors can beat them without a crutch like comms or OP perks.
The vast majority of killers don't need to go against a wannabe comp team to get stomped, most of the time it's just MMR putting them against stronger survivors and not 4 survivors of their skill who go from "being rubbish" to "stomp killers" simply by using discord.
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Playing and having a good time with friends is now officially a crutch? What logic is that?
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Again you can have fun with your friends well not trying to get a 20th hair style for Feng, you just choose not to. Are you that naive to think most swfs are not on comms? ill play with my friends but not talk to them? Yeah ok. it doesn't matter if your not trying to be efficient, the fact that you can say ill body block or unhook, or get chased in an instant over a solo reading what is happening when it does display it on the hud and not before hand.
And as for blaming mmr a swf just compounds the issue of a killer getting stomped then.
"lose because they can't fathom survivors can beat them without a crutch like comms or OP perks." and you're also admitting its a crutch which is my point.
The fact that solo queue has to receive hud updates to make it competitive with swfs?
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Which it is still not competitive against swf and it still will never be equal or stronger even if u added voice comms or basekit infinite range bond. But it does not make SWF a crutch, most swf players are people just having a good time with friends and the comp swfs are people playing in private matches against each other anyway.
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Because some kids are rotten with anger, entitlement and unwillingness to learn. I'm sure that this Nemesis will go camp someone on hook, slap on hook, slug to bleedout, etc, for childish revenge. And it will be like an excrement snowball, he'll get more hatred, he'll shittalk and scumplay more and more, begging to verily believe in "camp/tunnel is the only option", "us vs them" and other bullcrap.
I saw some survivors like that too, but killers - very often (but I'm playing on very low MMR as survivor, so all this "dredge" usually piling up in the bottom)
TL;DR it's the filth in person, not anything else
Another example: I'm terrible with Oni. Lik TERRIBLE. And I was playing on Coldwind farm too, tried to get Demon Dash downs, got maybe 1 or 2 hooks. In EGC survivors write "gg" and "I feel kinda sorry for killer..." and I replied "Why? I'm learning." They immediately switch into "BFF" mode, gave ton of advices, wished goodluck, godspeed and happy day.
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I keep hearing this good time with friends, you can do that in kyf, which has zero impact on other players. If all you're about is a good time with your friends then go there.
if swf wasn't a crutch then why do they have to keep adjusting the hud to compete with swfs. Also im sure there are many potatoes who play with there friends and get carried, ergo the swf is a crutch, because in solo they wouldn't have their friends to carry them.
If you don't see swf's as a advantage over solo's and the potential to be a crutch for bads then you're just being naive.
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And it's never an active comp team, or if it is, it's in a public match when they have no idea they're about to play a killer treating it like a scrim. This community will never evolve.
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Both sides does this. There are also a lot of survivors that blame their losses on solo q.
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That is more believable than the attitude all killers constantly lose to 4-man comp SWF.
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yeah we know your a killer main based on your bad takes
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It started from the inflated ego and has been tossed for every other reason since. Sometimes people need an excuse for their ego or maybe they had a string of frustrations. In the end it's easier to let people believe what they want.
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“Survivors constantly losing because of solo q” and “killers constantly losing because of SWF” are both equally unbelievable.
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It’s more likely that survivors lose in solo queue which is known even to the devs as having a low success rate than all killers everywhere always lose to 4-man SWF. The percentage rate of a 4-man SWF is like 3-5% of all matches. Competitive SWF teams are realistically a fraction of that. There’s just no statistical pathway where killers only face 4-man SWF.
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Actually, the devs have stated multiple times that average solo q and average SWFs are only off by a few kill rate %. This means that most of the people complaining about solo q wouldn’t actually do much better if they were in a SWF.
And besides, SWFs don’t need to be 6,000+ hour comp players, in order to gain massive game advantages from voice comms. Survivors can still use voice comms to warn each other where the killer is, and they can use voice comms to coordinate stuff….. even if they aren’t comp enough to say things like “I’m working on the 11 generator”.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on0 -
He's probably posted here at some point in his life.
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The issue with both is lack of accountability.
You can lose to a SWF, and you can lose in SoloQ, but blaming it entirely on either is a bad thing to do, since it ignores the idea that you could have made mistakes and could improve in some areas.
I lose all the time while playing SoloQ, but Ive been trying to use it as a learning experience to improve since I just really suck at Survivor specifically. Even with Killer, which is a role that I am significantly better at, I use every opportunity as a learning opportunity.
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The performance/win rate difference is upwards of 15% per the devs. You may not consider that noticeable when it comes to the survivor win rate but I’m sure if it applied as something like, say, a subtraction to the kill rate you’d feel it.
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There isnt any metric for improvement though, you cant see your mmr. The devs believe that if they don't show it it reduces toxic behaviour. That may be so, but it also reduces the threads complaining about who someone verse when they shouldn't have.
If you can't see your mmr then you cant complain about it. BHVR logic.
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Peanits, September 16 2022: "To clarify something here, the difference in escape rates for SWF groups can be as much as +/- 15%, but this is at the most extreme end of the spectrum. In reality, very few players are actually in this range. The distribution of people across all ratings is like a bell curve. Most people are somewhere near the middle, very few are on either end (high or low skill). The average SWF group, which makes up the vast majority of SWF groups, has little to no discernable difference compared to solo players (within a few %)."
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I bring new players into my swf groups all the time and if the killer sees they are the weak link we still lose, yes sometimes u can "carry" but if they get chased first it can be over since they will go down quick then we are in a 3 surv game which swf or not cant be won for obvious reasons.
We want to be able to grind points btw which we cannot do in kyf, yes sometimes we play that to have fun with random perks etc. But most of us still want to be unlocking stuff whilst having fun.
I think tbh I would rather face 4 new players in a SWF then facing 4 solo Q players who are very good at the game.
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Hahahaha So if you have friends who want to play together they should only do it in custom matches where there are no bloodpoints to be had? Come on now, be serious.
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I didn’t start playing killer until after I had gotten a good handle on survivor, but when I did I kept thinking I was going up against SWF teams because I was getting roasted and all I kept reading was how SWF teams are unbeatable. I realized, however, no I wasn’t getting matched constantly with SWF teams - I was just playing badly. Everything takes time to learn and do well - and a lot of killers will take even more time but are definitely worth it. No matter which side I’m playing I know I am still learning better ways to play and I wish others would accept that as well. Are there some things in this game I think are OP or lean too far on the scale? Yes, but anytime anyone has an issue with something they complain and say it needs to be nerfed. There are so many ways to play this game especially from the killer perspective so I recommend trying to build counters and learn how others play. It makes things so much more fun. Heck, before I touched killer I was thinking everything was OP on the killer side but, no, it’s not. You just gotta learn and gain perspective.
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