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Made For This vs Overcome vs Sprint Burst

If I want to waste the maximum amount of the killer's time, which should I bring?

Comments

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611

    If you're really good at looping probably made for this, otherwise sprint burst is the safer bet considering you need to be healthy to get value out of overcome.

  • NoOneKnowsNova
    NoOneKnowsNova Member Posts: 2,785

    Made For This if you're good at looping.

    Sprint Burst to just generally waste their time otherwise.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
    edited June 2023

    If you are good at looping and aren't facing a insta down killer or are confident enough to know you'll be able to force m1's then Made for This will be more vallue in the long run.

    Sprint burst is more concistant and safe i feel and will prevent you from going down in a dead zone

    Overcome is terrible. If the killer uses the very common strategy of tunneling you without giving you a chance to heal it will save you exactly 13.56 seconds once. And that is if you're lucky and it isn't a killer with a movement power or a oneshot power. Then it will do even less.

    Edit for currect number

  • GentlemanFridge
    GentlemanFridge Member Posts: 5,789
    edited June 2023

    Unironically? Dead Hard + Made for This

    The killer’s going to notice Made for This, and think “they won’t have an exhaustion perk” and then when they lunge for it, hit ‘em with a DH.

    You’ll have benefited from Made for This for at least one chase interaction, and still get to have another thanks to DH.

    You’re specifically asking for a time-waster. The various speed boost exhaustion perks can discourage the killer from chasing you at all, but with MfT and DH, they will have already comitted the time to it by the time it comes into play.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    ok i fluffed up the math hard yesterday so here is everything together.

    Killer starts 5m with hitting distance, hits you and you just hold w untill hit again

    Killer moves at 4.6m/s, Killer has a 2.7 second cooldown on attack where they don't move. Survivor base is 4m/s, on hit survivors gain a 65% speed increase for 1.8 seconds which by base is 6.6m/s

    Perkless

    It takes the killer 5/0.6= 8.33 seconds before the initial hit

    Survivor makes (6.6*1.8)+(4*0.9)= 15.48 meters of distance

    Killer catches that up at 0.6 m/s so in 15.47/0.6= 25.8 seconds he makes up the difference

    add the 2.7 seconds of swipe cooldown and it takes 28.5 seconds after the first hit to the second hit

    So total time waste is 8.33+28.5= 36.83 seconds

    Sprint Burst

    Sprint burst lets the survivor run at 6m/s for 3 seconds so they gain (6-4.6)*3= 4.2 meters additional distance

    It then takes the killer (5+4.2)/0.6= 15.33 seconds for the hit

    add the 3 seconds of sprint burst and it takes 18.33 seconds for the initial hit

    Everything after this is the same so in 28.5 seconds the killer has gained the distance

    So total time waste is 18.33+28.5= 46.83 seconds

    10 seconds more then base

    Overcome

    Overcome changes the time of on hit speedboost from 1.8 seconds to 3.8 seconds

    So again 8.33 seconds for the initial hit

    Then the survivor makes (6.6*2.7)+(2*1.1)= 20.02 meters of distance

    Killer catches up at 0.6 so 20.02/0.6= 33.36 seconds before they gained the distance

    add the 3.8 seconds of Overcomming and we have 37.16 seconds after first hit before second

    So total time waste is 8.33+37.16= 45.5 seconds

    8.66 more then base (I don't know how i got 13.56 seconds last night lol, don't half ass things if you want it to be correct is what i learned)

    Made for This

    Made for This increases the survivors movement speed by 3% to 4.12 m/s while injured

    Now i'm not 100% sure how that interracts with the on hit speed boost but i'm pretty sure it stacks addictively so the on hit speedboost turns to 4*1.68=6.72 m/s

    So again 8.33 seconds for the first hit

    Then the survivor makes (6.72*1.8)+(4.12*0.9)= 15.8 meters of distance

    Killer catches up at 0.48 meters per second so in 15.8/0.48= 32.9 seconds they gained the distance

    add the 2.7 cooldown and we have 35.6 seconds after the first hit before the second

    Total time waste is 8.33+35.6= 43.93 seconds

    7.1 more then base

    Ofcourse it is important to remember that our matches aren't happening in infinite voids so these numbers don't really represent what happens in actual games but they give a close enough estimate i think. These numbers always feel so unbelievable (my solo teammates don't usually last 28.5 seconds after the first hit) so anyone who wants to skim through for errors feel free

    Another important thing to remember is that this is vs powerless m1 killers, Made for This power comes from how big the percentual difference is between 0.6 and 0.48. Which allows it to gain a lot of distance over time. This greatly deminishes vs any power that adds speed. For example 0.48/0.6 vs m1 killers adds 25% to the chase time while vs a blight who moves at 9.2 m/s during rushes it only adds 5.2/5.08 or about 2.4% to the chase time while the rushes are active. The burstiness of perks like sprint burst will help waay more vs bursty speed killers when it comes to holding w. Even Overcome has this going for it

    In short if you want to delay the first hit or want to be able to hold w vs burst speed killers go sprint burst. If you're confident in looping go Make for This, if you want it easy without thinking go Overcome

  • Chewy102
    Chewy102 Member Posts: 613

    MTF almost hands down when talking about in higher skills. The first hit of a chase isn't gonna do much, but it taking 20% longer to finish a chase for that 2nd hit is nothing to sneeze at as it allows you to safely reach that next pallet/window. Then you can combo that with a Resilience build and have a 99% heal. Stay wounded for Res buffs, run early to get MFT value and maybe bait the Killer, pop your 99% heal at a loop to tank a hit, then continue with MFT.

    If you don't want to dedicate a build around it and skill isn't a factor. Then it's roughly a 50/50 between SB or MFT with an edge towards MFT.

    Overcome? I honestly don't recall playing against that enough to know how good it is or not. Must mean it's "bad" if almost no one uses it.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 1,882

    Aside from what I think is a typo with 6.6 m/s listed for Sprint burst (you have it correctly as 6.0 elsewhere) this is roughly right, but represents a worst case upper bound for chase time.

    Some hidden assumptions here are that the killer isn't using their power in any way (so for example a huntress hatchet or exposed ability could just end the chase within 10 seconds regardless of move speed).

    You're also assuming that chases are lasting upwards of 40+seconds, but not including any estimate of a lower bound with bloodlust. This actually can impact the comparison by quite a bit, since Sprint burst and overcome could cause the chase to drop and not only reset the bl timer, but also prevent chase until the killer gets close enough. But bloodlust doesn't drop with MfT without deliberate killer action (like kicking a pallet on cooldown).

    Since you have a worst case scenario, which assumes no bloodlust, adding in bloodlust changes the MfT time. There could be minor adjustments with Sprint burst and overcome, but likely the amount of time breaking chase entirely will only result in bl1 at best, with a pretty minor impact to the time for those two. There's no chance to break chase with MfT simply by movement speed, and I think it's fair since none of the other comparisons include mind games or other factors (body blocks, etc).

    For MfT: First 15s no change, then 10s of bl1, then 10s of bl2, then any remaining time is at bl3. Keeping in mind bloodlust only takes effect after the initial hit, since a successful attack resets the timer.

    So using your 15.8m distance, the killer gains at .48 for 15s, so 7.2m gained (8.6 left), then 10s at .68 for 6.8m (1.8m left). A lunge attack causes the killer to move at 6.9m/s for .8 seconds, so a lunge from max range is possible after about .31 seconds of bloodlust 3. Without a lunge, and going for 'exact zero' is roughly 2 seconds of BL3.

    So 27 seconds plus the initial 8.33 from your head start, gives 35.33 total. Which is far, far shorter than the exhaustion options.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    Yeah, that's why i left the disclaimer that these numbers don't represent well what happens in actual matches, there are so many variables to think of. They are nice for estimates but that's about it

    The 6.6 isn't a typo btw, the on hit speed burst is slightly more then the standert exhaustion speed boost

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,839

    I like Overcome with WoO as I'm conscious about creating dead zones. I like to take the hit during chase and bypass a nearby pallet for one further away. I feel like it has its place, even though I'm aware it's probably the least popular exhaustion perk.