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A moment of silence for all the already obscure healing perks
that got even more obscure after healing nerfs and everyone running Sloppy Butcher.
Reactive Healing, Solidarity, Resurgence, Pharmacy.
Comments
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I never saw those perks, and like 4/5ths of all survivor perks stink so it’s no break from the norm. Eventually BHVR will either rollback or in someway lessen their healing nerfs because survivors are pushing gens and not focusing on healing as much. It’s upsetting killer mains.
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Well you can always discourage repair being injured with a nice 50% repair penalty I dont think you can repair much stuff with a claymore cut on ur back for example
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Not healing is free instant downs so I don't think any killer is complaining about free instant downs.
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I actually really like the idea of Reactive Healing, although at the time (before healing nerfs) there were obviously better perks to run, so it didn't have a place in my load out. But if it didn't suffer from Sloppy Butcher as much I'd definitely run it. (I actually saw someone running Resurgence yesterday).
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I really do think that perks like solidarity, resurgence, and especially self care give some kind of hemorrhage immunity.
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If they had like 30 seconds of immunity or something, it wouldn't be bad.
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Ok, so what's to stop killers running Sloppy with Nurse's and interrupting you every time and no gens get done? That'll be a new obnoxious slowddown meta with games taking way to long and syringes being mandatory.
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Sure. Self-Care is base-kit and self-healing takes 8 seconds now.
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BHVR seem to have some trouble finding the middle ground between perks that are extremely broken and completely useless.
The healing nerfs were necessary. You can't balance the game when the killer has to put in 30 seconds or more to hit you and you can heal yourself in 12 seconds on command every time.
Solidarity could give a little extra speed to altruistic healing (20% ish) and it would be pretty decent. Pharmacy is still decent. Finding a medkit to heal yourself isn't bad. It's no longer extremely good but still decent. Reactive healing can work very well in combination with Bond. Sloppy is pretty much a hard counter to any healing perk that doesn't have you healing in a secluded area away from the killer but I don't think it's that bad.
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I miss the old Pharmacy perk - I stopped running it when it required you be injured. It makes more sense now but I really enjoyed hoarding Green Medkits + it was a less opportunistic perk before. Now when you get injured you have to hope that you have time to get to a chest before it's opened and before the killer finds you and if a survivor finds you they can just heal you. Would really prefer it just be given the Rummage action like all the other item perks or something else entirely.
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Yeah, it should have both actions since you have to be injured. It's useless if your teammates have opened all the chests.
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But killer mains are (loudly) complaining about survivors prioritizing gens over healing. They complain that survivors avoid the healing handicaps by using Adrenaline and ‘rushing gens.’ They complain that being injured isn’t risky enough for survivors. Most recently they’ve begun complaining about how MFT nullifies playing injured since survivors are ‘so fast’ now.
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I avoid healing handicaps with Inner Healing, it's such a good solo perk, granted you can find totems, although it still requires the same time as a self heal, just distributed differently.
Tbh, now they are also complaining about exhaustion perks in general, at least pre-nerf DH got all the focus. Now we have killers wanting to buff/add exhaustion everywhere.
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The Pharmacy nerf was so unnecessary
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Because the argument was never really about game balance. The motive was making 4Ks easier to obtain. It’s transparent, and that is why BHVR hasn’t really listened to it. They aren’t going to nerf any current exhaustion perks, they’re not changing how exhaustion applies or functions, and as they recently stated they see no reason to change Made for This.
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I disagree. I think some of the healing nerfs were necessary, but the self-care nerf? Like come on, it already took ages to heal and now it takes forever especially with sloppy butcher.
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Nothing to do with healing nerfs, more like op perks like adrenaline and resilience thats fuelling gen rushing.
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Just coz stuff like toolboxes are op doesn't mean they have to rollback to something else that was broken.
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Not really, Adrenaline is useless until all gens are done. You're essentially carrying 3 perks. The fact that you can die without using your perk might be a good reason to rush gens though. But you are at the risk of dying the more time you spend in-game, with resources getting depleted, so of course you'll do gens. Even if you don't have adrenaline, spending too much time goofing around reduces your chances of making it to end-game by a lot. That's how the game is designed.
If you don't take advantage of the fact there are 4 survivors alive you're not getting out as a team.
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I'm going to be real pharmacy lost on the "buff" they gave it. Used to be an avid pharmacy farmer but needing to be injured meant that you couldn't get the chest when convient, as when injured it's usually better to get a teammate to heal you, on top of healing nerfs and all medkit rarities being basically the same for self healing (their best use) it's a hollow shell of its former self.
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Reactive healing can be pretty good if you are bold or Killers injures lot of people near by.
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Usually they run Sloppy Butcher.
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I absolutely loathe the double standards of forum killer players.
Killers can have entire end game builds that end on a 4k after a terrible game with 0 kills and they immediately say "Well, it is an end game build. This is the reward for playing perkless the entire game.", but then you have Adrenaline activating only once in the entire match and they want it nerfed to nonexistence just like it happened with Decisive Strike, which was nerfed to not be usable the one time it was supposed to be useful.
Now, keep in mind, if Adrenaline gets nerfed out of the meta, some other perk is gonna take its place, and it could very well be another gen speed perk. We could very much be heading for a worse meta than the one we're in, so choose your battles wisely.
I don't even like the perk because getting any value out of it on soloq is a gamble, but it truly annoys me how the conversation around survivor perks has revolved around "I wish Prove deactivated after a gen is done", "I wish Made For This deactivated after the first chase", "I wish Circle Of Healing self-destructed after one heal", "I wish Overzealous deactivated permanently after getting hit".
Jesus christ, take the L at least once. You don't have to 4k every game. Just because an end game perk did its job once every 7 matches doesn't mean it's overpowered.
You have at least 3 dedicated perks tailor made to prevent value from Adrenaline. Just once, just once you should adapt to the survivor meta, not the other way around.
God, opening the forums always get me tilted with people's terrible takes on game balancing.
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You've seen people complaining about Overzealous? In solo it's as useful as Potential Energy (which people were also worried about and I never see).
The reason people focus on gens is because it's 2023 and not 2016. Both killers and survivors have figured out what the most efficient way ton do their objective is. As killer you can tunnel and proxy camp, as a survivor because you can die this fast your best bet is to use your time on gens and not doing other stuff. These are game design choices and they lead to those playstyles.
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It's a similar situation to the Deja Vu buff. They were calling the apocalypse back when they buffed it from 8 to 10% and included blessing to the procs.
Nothing really happened and for the most part everything calmed down a month after that, but I still see people mention it as one of the reasons why gen rushing is a thing, alongside Hyperfocus, which is really funny because I see one of these perks once every 30 games.
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The thing is you don't bring Hyperfocus on its own. You usually bring it with Stakeout and a toolbox. So That's like more than half of your loadout to make Hyperfocus do something. The problems start when the whole team brings it. But I assume that's a lot more rare than killers bringing a strong or their strongest load out.
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I agree with all of this.
I think Calm Spirit was also nerfed (for no reason) as part of the same update/patch.
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The penalty for cleansing totems and opening chests is unnecessary for sure.
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A moment of loudness for the ultimate anti-anti-heal perk, Autodidact
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That's been the deal since it was released no?
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Very happy that you didn't include Autodidact in that list. It's actually a counter to Sloppy Butcher and is really fun to use.
as for Solidarity, they should just make it a 100% conversion rate and see what happens. I feel like even then it won't be too powerful because of the prerequisites.
Pharmacy got "buffed" and I think if they just make it more in-line with the other rummaging perks from Haddie & Gabriel, it'll be okay. Because not being able to find a green medkit at all times is worse than what they gave it.
Resurgence I think is fine, even if Sloppy counters it.
Reactive Healing, I have no idea how to make it better
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The answer to that issue isn't a healing revert it is to actually address the long standing problem instead of addressing the symptoms the problem creates.
Survivors are going to prioritize their objective which is fine, that's the point. The issue is that the objective itself has an absolutely bonkers time variance due to factors that most killers actually can't really combat. Gen spawns are bad for both killers and survivor in the form of being spread too far out to efficiently patrol, but also spawning 3 gen clusters that if you don't break early can be extremely annoying later. Repair is currently overly supported and overly optimized by perks and toolboxes to the point where the average play time can trend downwards so sharply that maybe only a 3rd of the killers can truly keep up with it by design. With the sharp decrease in gen regression numbers across the board there is very little gating a good team from pushing the pace.
The band-aid fix is to rely on people just choosing to be inefficient rather than efficient or get them to focus on another task of similar importance for some of the time. Clearly that doesn't work too well when teams are good, but works overly well when teams are bad.
The actual fix is to look at the objective and all the things that modify it's ability to be completely and either rebalance that objective and it's modifiers or change the way that objective is engaged with so that swings in its timing are much less severe and the average completion is more or less maintained consistently. It would be nice to have an oppositional objective with more consistency because then you actually might be able to get away without making major changes to a large slate of killers. Honestly, if the devs even went the opposite direction and made a consistently short objective I think killers wouldn't mind as long as killer powers were changed to be able to keep up with the game being played at that pace.
As for Made For This, that perk probably shouldn't have even been made as it. I don't actually care that survivors get a speed boost, other perks give out speed boosts and you get a speed boost just from being hit. The difference is those other speed boosts are time capped. You get a boost for a very short amount of time and then it drops off, it's enough to help you without just being a constant problem. Made For This feels like less of a tactical tool that survivors need to use wisely and more like a flat chase extender just because you dared to play the game regularly. If you're not a killer who completely circumvents health states or has a way to apply exhaustion on demand you've got very few counters to it. It's not the most op thing ever, but it isn't exactly setting a great precedence for the future of perk designs where you get weirdly punished for very basic gameplay interactions.
Also the complaints go both ways, survivors have complained about plenty of things that resulted in significant changes so maybe leaning on that isn't the greatest way to support an argument. Like y'all voices literally outnumber dedicated killer only players by a wild margin.
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Those perks weren’t OP a month ago. 🤷♀️ What happened?
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It's a live service game things are evolving all the time. Remember Call Of Brine was in the game long before the gen kick meta and was considered fine.
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Overcharge + Eruption made CoB overwhelming. It did its job much better because those perks boosted it, along with gens taking longer. Nothing really changed to help Adrenaline or Resilience become better.
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healing half way will never be worth a perk slot. Was trash before sloppy got popular and will remain trash no matter what.
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The game has changed though, perks that were even more op than adrenaline like dead hard, decisive strike and COH got nerfed. Now adrenalines pick rate is around 30%. One occasional adrenaline is not a problem when theres regularly entire teams running it then it totally kills the end game. An occasional resilence again is not a problem but when it has a pick rate of around 20% and being stacked with other things like PT (which also has a very high pick rate despite it being a perk which helps the whole team) and toolboxes then it is a massive problem.
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