Do you think all the characters' sexual orientations should be revealed?
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These kinds of posts are very funny because horror fiction has been deeply intertwined with queer culture for decades if not centuries.
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Personally I think you leave it ambiguous for existing characters, but introduce some new characters that are written from the ground up as LGBT+ or even non LGBT+ but their sexuality is a defining part of their character.
That to me feels the most honest and true to life way to do it. Some people are outwardly defined by their sexuality, many are not. In addition, shoehorning a character after the fact that was not previously written in a certain way feels lazy and disingenuous. If you want to give representation, do it from the start and create a great character that can people can identify with from the get go.
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I think it'd be a bit weird to have every single character labeled tbh. David was the first gay character so I understand BHVR made a statement with him, but I would personally prefer we learn characters' sexuality casually (like Felix's wife being mentioned in lore) rather than have a whole official announcement for every character.
If we get to the point where we have enough lore to know about everyone's sexuality then great, but adding it for the sake of adding it would be weird tbh.
Edit: also, i'd rather have most characters without any implied sexuality and be able to identify with all of them rather than being stuck with "here is the only asexual character in the game, no one else is like you, not our problem you don't like them"
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I think it could be added if it has to do with the character's lore. Aside from that I'd love to see David's not get tunneled into the ground for no obvious reason, aside from the fact that they are David.
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nah just make new characters, dont go back and add it.
most recent was felix and his girlfriend i think from lore
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This game barely has any lore other than snippets here and there, and there hasn't been any progression either other than the survivors being stuck in hell in perpetuity. If you are not planning to expand the lore greatly, why would adding sexual orientations (saying "revealed" is weird since there probably isn't anything set in stone) matter?
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At this time, I am going to ask everyone to keep this discussion civil and respectful, please. If you wish to post a comment in this thread, please do so respectfully, and with the Forum Rules in mind.
And remember that a person's Identity is their IDENTITY, and as the Team has mentioned before; updates to a characters lore in regards to this topic will be done in a natural, non-stereotypical, and respectful manner to the character, and respectful to the LGBTQIA2S+ community as well:
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No, because it will go from representation to tokenization. All you will accomplish by revealing it is dividing this fanbase.
Look at what happened with David. It made people happy for a week, and now you hear reports of players apparently being tunneled and harassed specifically because they play David. I say apparently because players could also be convincing themselves that's why they are being tunneled.
It just a can of worms that never ends when opened.
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Eh. My issue with all this is that sexuality is something personal. Private. Share it if that’s your thing, but this just comes off as policy, a mandate, for everyone to bring their private matters into public eye.
Work against the general bias by people sharing their stories and through support of these events, people and movements (such as creating new or revisiting old stories and characters, I’m not against that) to shape that bias into general uncertainty.
Though mandating everyone and every character, to wear their sexuality on their sleeve and be properly “labeled”, rubs me the wrong way.
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Technically it's not been confirmed that those characters are straight, they could be bi or pan. I believe the only 'confirmed' sexuality is David's.
It's similar in Overwatch, the LGBT characters have had their sexualities 100% confirmed but the 'probably straight' characters have not.
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We dont always have to start fresh and let their whole character be defined by their sexuality at the start. Certainly david did it best as we loved him based on his personality and willingness to sacrifice himself for others. Him being revealed to be gay only added more to an established character and made him even more loved and impactful in the community. People who didnt like that were most likely close minded anyways
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Either introduce every possible option and have at least one character represent it or do none. It would be very ugly to have double standards and to ignore others. Often black characters are added to include diversity but asian , indian , native american get shoved to the side as company declares it introduced diversity. If we are going the route of diversity , sexual/race/religion , either include every single one or keep the whole thing fully ambiguous. I tired of "minimal" diversity just to be able to state you have "diversity". No one left behind, period.
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Sexuality and Sexual orientation has pretty deep historical ties to horror as a genre overall. DBD is far from the first horror video game to even vaguely broach the subject of LGBTQIA+ representation. I think BHVR's overall goal is probably to have DBD's universe feel like an actual world that isn't terribly dissimilar to our own. The game already has quite a sizable LGBTQIA+ fanbase even without a lot of representation so it is nice when we get to see characters we can relate to on that level.
Is it hurting right now to not have a full spectrum of representation? No it isn't, but adding representation won't do any harm to the game either. It's a net benefit as not only do you attract more paying customers from demographics you may be really reaching as well as you would like. You also give people already in your ecosystem something that they can relate to on a more personal level which can also drive positive community engagement.
Now, it isn't going to print money or increase engagement to grand degree, but if the goal is to generally have people develop parasocial attachments to your product without relying on nostalgia licenses and pop culture touchstones you gotta make people feel seen.
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I am getting a lot tunnellers too lol. And i am not playing as David. It does not matter which survivor you play tho.
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That's not what I said.
I've noticed in my own games, that whenever there is a David, they got tunneled out, always. No matter how much the rest of the team takes hits/gets downed for them and so on. Regardless that's a different topic.
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Didnt know that. Good to know
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You cannot prove that they were tunneled for being David. Everybody gets tunneled. In my experience, David is usually played by less experienced players, and guess who’s always the first target for tunneling?
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I just don't believe that tho. I am not saying you are lying, i am just saying nobody tunnels David because he is gay. I don't think anyone is that pathetic. I play with Davids too. It's usually killer tunnels whoever gets hooked first. It can be Claud, Meg, Kate, Zarina etc.
I did not see any hate against David on my games. Maybe it's different for you, can't know.
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Most survivors are good peeps and obviously put tue TP roll over, but not Nea and Meg, they are both build differently and can hardly resist the fogs siren song, they put the roll under. Most killers are monsters in human shape and put the TP roll under, just to add some more salt to any injury and make you flinsh when going for some alone time in the stalls, but some of them are more wholesome. Rin is probably a good girl and would put the TP roll up the right way, as would some others.
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Just give everyone a "pride parade" outfit and as a foil a "conservative voter fell into the fog on the way to the voting booth" outfit and let everyone have their headcanon decide where to place them. The Fog might even make all options possible at the same time, as multiple versions of the same character enact different situations and experience different stimuly.
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I headcanon most videogame characters as bi until stated otherwise, because I myself am.
I prefer it that way honestly.
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My take on this is something I already talked about but to rephrase. There’s already a lot of representation in this game we have survivors from different backgrounds and ethnic cultures it’s impressive.
But with sexuality it comes off as forced sometimes. Like it’s ok to have those characters but making characters gay isn’t representation it’s just making them that way just to do it. Imagine if Batman was written to actually be gay. That’s not representation. If your going to add a Gay/trans/non binary character, just make a original character and don’t market the character just on there sexuality make them a interesting character that’s not forced just to get brownie points.
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To be honest, I think they likely won't make a big thing of it for the whole roster, instead focusing on select characters or creating new ones with that sort of thing in mind. With David, they really put the effort in to make a really long story to accompany it which is way more effort than some companies do with this topic.
Does kinda suck that David hasn't really got much in the way of cosmetics lately though, as someone who mains a character with barely any I feel the pain.
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For me, they don't need to be but then I'm not too hung up on the characters lores. Lots of people enjoy the lores though, and would probably love whatever additional details they can get.
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Today i tunnelled by Blight and i was playing Mikaela. Guy ignored everyone and only wanted kill me out. I was not using any charm, only Puppers' charm.
Guy was trying to win , very toxic and boring way. But it was what he was doing. Should i call him witchhobic? It's just not makes sense to me. I don't see anyone to target someone for character/charm etc. They are just playing usual DbD and sadly tunnelling is part of this game.
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I wouldn't dislike it, but I don't think I would enjoy everyone getting revealed all of a sudden. As a gay male, David's reveal never did anything for me personally; I didn't start to play as him more often, I kept on going for Kate and Mikaela. I mean, its neat of course to delve deeper into a part of a character's backstory by adding in new lore, along with general inclusivity of the LGBT+ community, but we do have the pride charms, and a ton more of them now to help people represent themselves more. Next year, maybe pride cosmetics for killer weapons and outfits for survivors? That'd be good.
The topic of adding more representation, however, ends up being a slippery slope no matter how you look at it; sometimes it can be very empowering, and others just make an attempt to pander to the community. I'd rather things just be left to the player's imagination, go with their own headcanon.
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I'm mainly worried about the effect it will have on the game. Players can be extremely toxic, and I can see survivors getting tunneled out just for playing an LGBT character.
I understand David is gay, however that was revealed years after his release. Most players aren't on the forums reading posts, checking socials, etc like we all are.
I feel if they release an LGBT character and make a big announcement / posts / tome focusing on only their sexuality, it will have negative effects to the Survivors that play them.
I really like the ambiguous approach Dead By Daylight has.
You look at a character and have no clue what their sexual orientation is, AND THATS THE POINT.
All of us are unique in our own ways and don't need labels to identify who we are. If a "insert any sexual orientation" person plays Haddie and feels a bond, let them. Once you announce a sexuality, you may break the bond between the character and those who no longer seem themselves in.
I will say if they were going to release an LGBT Character, a killer would probably be the best way. Unless your a SWF, its going to be hard to "bully" a murderer.
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I don't think it's a good idea and some things should be left to imagination - it would be forcing it upon the established characters we already all love for who they are, we have that bond... and it wouldn't change anything for me, so I don't really feel the need to know it at all. It's just a tagging out of a sudden for no reason. We have some nice charms and they are looking good on people who love to share more about themselves.
Now - introducing an activist character like... Greta Thunberg or Pasta Senpai, that is where you need to be lore specific and their voice lines would be - interesting.
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I'm of the belief that if something like that is being said show it. Even a one of sentence in someone's lore such as "his husband" or "her date wasn't happy and she left" is much, much better than just saying "oh yea they're gay" on twitter and nothing else. I understand that's not how it works in real life, people are still themselves even if they don't outwardly show it, however the second option is such a cop out where they can easily turn around and say "lol jk" if they wish and almost feel non-cannon anyway if it's not actually in any official media.
As for if they should do it, I see no harm. If they feel like making a character cannon they should and in the case of a character like David I feel like it added to the lore with the idea of his parent's expectations and working in a field where that wouldn't of been as acepted (Rugby). I'd personally like more repersentation but like I stated earlier I would rather some effort be put in beyond a twitter post.
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Sure, a few more certainly couldn't hurt (not that it's hurting now, just to be clear).
Y'all can have Adam, Jake, Dwight, Meg, Jeff, Jane, Zarina and Felix.
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All of them? No
But there could be a couple more. Doesn't even need to be mayor like it was with David. Something like a cosmetic for Yui that says it's a font memory of a past girlfriend would already do the job
It isn't a bad thing to leave a couple or even the mayority ambiguous
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They really can't do that now. Well they can, but they'd never hear the end of it from the community. They opened the door with David. There's no going back.
And before anyone says, "But what about Nurse, Felix and Legion?" Yea, they could've done all characters the same way they did those. Instead they made a big deal about David being gay which was anything but treating him the same way they did with those characters.
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Not against them doing any of this, as its their game. I don't see why its such a hot topic with some people. You play a game thats based around murder and horror. Yet we're focused about whether people like guys or girls. I honestly don't understand why this is a topic.
And thats fine! Maybe its not for me to understand. I just want to escape politics, race, sexual orientation, and personal expectations in my video games, and even that's getting increasingly difficult. Ah well, DbD fo lyfe!
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no because it doesnt matter. its a game of made up killers and survivors. that should be the least of yours and bhvrs worries
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I really doubt people would be angry if a sexual orientation was subtly hinted at.
Outside of those individuals who's default state is anger
Most would be glad the reprisentation would be there. It doesn't always need to be in the highlight, it just needs to be there
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bro, most of the survs are not straight either. Most people who are against "representation for the sake of representation" are not toxic hetero who hate everything that is not not straight. We just don't care, and personally i don't think sexual orientation is needed in game where you just escape from the killer and there's zero dialogue.
Anyway you can headcanon everything you want, like people above convinced that Yui is lesbian, despite there being zero clue for this. Everything up to you, if orientation is something important for you. But stop asking devs to adjust everything for you. They have much more important things to adjust in this game.
(like "representation" for people who actually need it, i'll just remind you that gay david king appeared in game much earlier then colorblind mode and visual terror for deef)
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There's something super weird about wanting to know what every character does romantically and in the sheets. Idk, unless it's relevant to their character, I feel like people who take a lot of interest in it have an unhealthy relationship with sexuality in some form and are often incredibly self-indulgent.
I wouldn't be against it being explored in some other characters, but again, only if it adds something to the character and doesn't cater to the rampant self-indulgence we find online.
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you can see it now......my character was killed and tunneled out due to their orientation...im reporting. May sound like a great idea on the outside, but this will do nothing but divide the community. This is why you leave these things out of diverse communities
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Ok let's try to keep the discussion civil.
I'm sorry you had that experience, please do report them if that's the case.
Asking for representation is not wanting to know what characters do "in the sheets" as you said and it's pretty disingenuous to say that people have interest in it just because they have an unhealthy relationship with sexuality.
Representation is about giving the players a character they can resonate with, someone that might have been through the same struggles in their life and that can make people think less lonely, less of an outsider.
We have to keep in mind that, even if it's 2023, not every society welcomes diversity.
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I don't think sexual identity should be known for any survivors. Not a single survivor should be labeled at all. People need to get over the incessant need to label everything. Sexual identity doesn't matter. I don't know how we got to this point in society where it matters so much. It genuinely adds nothing of actual value to any character.
People need to stop obsessing over fictional characters and their sexuality. There is more to people than who they're intimate with and honestly that isn't any ones business. Especially in a game like Dead by Daylight where it has absolutely no meaning at all, characters have no growth or story arcs.
Honestly, whether you're gay, lesbian, bi, trans, hetero, etc. It doesn't matter. That part of you is the least interesting part of who you are. We need to start acting like it. We're all more than that. We are all worth more than that.
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Good sentiment I agree, now can you tell that to people actively harming others in real life for their identity or does it only matter when people ask for LGBT content in video games?
Shockingly enough LGBT people didn't decide that their identity is a big deal, everyone else did and is continuing to do so.
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I do actively tell people that in real life. I am constantly at odds with my hyper religious family over it. I don't stand by and watch hateful spiteful bullies do their thing, I never have and never will. I've watched my own relatives kick out and disown their own child for being gay. In turn I took responsibility for their child.
That is how I know there is more to people than sexual identity. My cousin is an artist, he is an incredibly smart individual with a passion for learning and an athlete all traits that should mean more than the fact that he is gay. That doesn't matter today though because we made sexuality into a bigger deal than it ever had any right to be.
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No. I hate it, it is pointless and not relevant to the game.
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Not for existing characters.... but I wouldn't mind new characters
I am apart of the LGBT+ community but I don't say it to everyone I chat with
I don't mind some but not all
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Because every horror film or game for that matter has characters that we get to know at least. We feel for these characters and depending on their fate we grow attach to them. If it was just a horror film and we knew nothing about the characters, and i mean anything, then it would be just a boring film and just like any other film where they just die and we move on
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I don't believe they should because it doesn't matter in a horror video game and all it's going to do is cause arguments within the LGBT community and those who are homophobic, I guess the real question I have is why does it matter/ why is it important? It not being there isn't hurting anyone or causing anyone harassment, could you say the same if it were to go live? Given the track record of this community I'd say that's a no, I'd much rather them focus on improving the game if im being honest
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I never said asking for representation was wanting to know what they do 'in the sheets', nor is that the complete notion as I've also said 'does romantically', which encompasses a lot of one's sexuality (or absence of). I was addressing OP's question of knowing EVERY character's orientation/preferences. And to me it is very weird to give attention to EVERY character's sexuality for the sake of it. And I am at the full belief that people, including myself as I fully admit I have issues in that regard, who fixate themselves on sexuality likely don't have a very healthy relationship with it. But that is an opinion, you're free to say I'm wrong, but I don't think it's disingenuous.
That's fine. I'm fine with representation. I'm less fine with focusing on every character's sexuality, whether it's straight, gay, bi, trans or anything else. It comes off as an unsettling fixation on something that is very personal and yet not necessarily determinant of their persons.
I agree. I've been to such communities. I'd love to see an LGBT+ Russian or Arabic character, or even Chinese. It'd put BHVR a step further in fighting for progress than mega giants like Procter and Gamble that also embrace the rainbow every year. And it could resonate with people who play your game that definitely feel isolated.
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Unless it's an important part of their lore, it doesn't matter. Nurse is probably the only character where it matters because her husband's death is important.
Post edited by Hex_Ignored on0 -
What? Representation isnt about knowing a characters kinks... at all... its so people can feel normal and see themselves in the characters they play. By this logic people who want to see ethnic diversity are just obsessed with race and need help.
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Then what is the point of pride month, pride parades, pride celebrations and the lgbt community in general if not for making identity a big deal? I may be misunderstanding what you're saying but to me these things do seem to set themselves apart and highlight identity to a high degree.
I think characters and their stories serve better as inspiration rather than representation. Super heroes are a great example of this. A character like Superman inspired hope both in and outside of his universe even though his story is not something anyone can really relate to. No one is an alien from another planet crash landed on earth raised by farmers, but Superman is a character than resonated with people from all over the world.
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